Cam's FJ60 Gets a Heart Transplant (1 Viewer)

[gwalt584]

I will build some brackets to mount on both sides of the frame rail.
Just wish this was the later model. Man would it be much simpler.
Gary

 

[bdyer12]

I talked to TLC, the designer of the mount, Elgin I think is correct. he said to use the 1985 to 1987 FJ60 mount. I did not realize the FJ60 had changed the mounts for the transmission. Elgin did not realize that there were two different mounts, either.
I looking for the toyota part number for that mount.

i bought the 62 mount and it does not work. you need the late 60 mount that is flat on the bottom

 

[bdyer12]

i also have a supper clean 62 frame if anyone is interested.

 

[FJ60Cam]

It took all freakin' day, but the new radiator is in. It tried to fight me but I fought back and put it in its place.

Since the shroud is a full box vs a shallow box with a ring for the fan, it took up more room than the old one. I had to cut a chunk out of the crossmember for clearance.

View attachment 1251698

I had to hack up the AC drier bracket too. Then it slid right in.

View attachment 1251700

View attachment 1251702

The shroud is a perfect fit around the fan. The radiator doesn't seal up to the core support as well as the stock one, but still seems to pull air through the AC condenser just as before.

I also switched to an 80 series transmission cooler. It was free and bigger than the old one. I'm going through the radiator then through the cooler.

View attachment 1251703

I'll report back on temps when I get some more miles on it.

Radiator update:

I put the radiator through its paces on a recent wheeling trip in Utah. Temps are much more consistent now.

On the interstate, temps stayed close to 195, and would rise to 200-205 if I had a long steep climb. Off-road, temps only rose in the traffic jam situations where we were crawling over things very slowly (80-85 degrees out). Even then, the max temp I saw was 215, with a short spike at 220. As soon as I started moving and got airflow or higher rpms, it would drop down to around 200.

From what I can find on the Internet, the t'stat temp is 195 and factory electric fans are staged at 215 & 230, so I'm well under that.

I think if I had electric fans, I would absolutely be covered in all situations, but at the possible expense of adding another failure point.

The trans temps are much better as well with the new arrangement. I think the max I saw was in the 170s, on the trail doing the extended super slow stuff. The max I saw on the interstate was a little under 160.

I give it a cautious two thumbs up, pending stop & go traffic when it is 100+ degrees out.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Maintainance update:

After the post-Utah trip car wash, the motor was making some dry-bearing, metal on metal noises. I suspected it was a tensioner pulley or idler pulley, so I bought all three (serpentine tensioner, serpentine idler, AC tensioner).

Before I could swap them out, the AC tensioner pulley seized up and smoked the belt.

Considering the amount of dust and mud these have seen, (especially the AC since it is down low), it is understandable.

The other two did not need replacing, but they had a little play and/or slight noise, so I'm glad I did all three.

I went with the Gates brand aftermarket. They are Made in Canada like a lot of the OEM
parts. We'll see how they hold up.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Also, on the trip, we noticed that the fuel pump was whining on the road after Albuquerque, and then everyday on the trail until I got below 4000' on the way home.

It wouldn't do it all day. It was silent in the morning and then after running for a few hours it would start making noise. It seemed to run just fine, no hesitation or loss of power. And then it stopped on the way home in Santa Rosa, NM, even in the middle of a near 20 hour continuous hard drive.

I don't have any restrictions in the return line, anywhere in the system, or pressure in the tank.

I'm guessing it was elevation related. Anyone ever hear of this?

 

[Elbert]

Also, on the trip, we noticed that the fuel pump was whining on the road after Albuquerque, and then everyday on the trail until I got below 4000' on the way home.

It wouldn't do it all day. It was silent in the morning and then after running for a few hours it would start making noise. It seemed to run just fine, no hesitation or loss of power. And then it stopped on the way home in Santa Rosa, NM, even in the middle of a near 20 hour continuous hard drive.

I don't have any restrictions in the return line, anywhere in the system, or pressure in the tank.

I'm guessing it was elevation related. Anyone ever hear of this?

Yes one of the guys out in CA was commenting on a thread about internal and external fuel pumps and what his thoughts were about the relationship between in-tank electric fuel pumps and external fuel pumps...his comments were that in-tank fuel pumps were impacted less by elevation than external pumps. I spent 4 days or so out in Moab with my 60 and we went to various places all over...I have a 5.7 with external pump...no issues. My pump whines to some degree but I consider that normal and its always done that, I've not been to serious elevation beyond Moab if thats any measure. I think Andy had a fuel pump failure on his 40 while we where there at Moab but I don't know if there was any relationship to elevation...Andy's setup on his 40 is similar to mine.

Read another thread where a guy was dogging his external fuel pump on his 5.7 swap he lived out west too, says he kept frying fuel pumps in the heat / summer, but I don't recall what the solution was. I don't recall your fuel pump setup but if you have a in-tank GM pump and keep the tank reasonably full and the pump does not starve for fuel...you should be good or as good as you can get without some type of custom mod to the tank to potentially make a sump for it, but I'm not sure what can be done with respect to elevation. I've used a walbro external fuel pump from day one and had no issues...but 90% has been driving in the south with just a week of off-roading at Moab at really higher revelations than we see at the "cove" or in Knoxville area.

On any speratine setup I would change the idlers on any used engine and probally watch that every few years, if you did not put new idelers on when you did your engine swap I guess you got lucky and did not get stranded.

I think some were of the opinion that heat + elevation added to a vapor lock condition. While I'm no engineer I had always been under the impression that the higher pressure of the fuel system the less likely you were to have a vapor lock event. Of course you must route your fuel lines away from heat sources to the max extent possible.

 

[Elbert]

may not be of use...but FYI...I towed my 60 out to MOAB and back wtih my gm 2500 pickup with 6.0 gas engine....all stock no issues with fuel pumps...etc. Of course it has a stock in tank OEM GM fuel pump. I would say that a good in-tank fuel pump setup is all around superior....in comparison to external pumps....the liquid gas helps to cool the pump and generally the pumps just fail from just normal use over time.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Yeah, I do have an external pump.

If I ever happen upon an FJ62 tank, I'll probably snag it.

The idlers have 70K miles. I'll keep the old ones for spares and grab an extra AC idler. We almost died on the way home from the Rubicon when a pulley bearing seized, I don't want that to happen again.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Holy thread resurrection...

If you're keeping up with all the twists and turns of this swap, I have an alternator that just spits out a steady 13.8 volts because it runs in default mode. This is common to all Gen IV swaps if you use the alternator that came on the donor.

One option is to put on a four wire alternator from an earlier truck. Or you can swap the voltage regulator out, which is the route I'm taking.

I have the DR44 alternator, and I'm swapping over a VR from an AD244, which fits perfectly.

New pigtail...

Maybe @TrickyT or @Cruiserdrew can give me the for dummies instructions on where the PLIS leads go

 

[Elbert]

whats the advantage of changing the voltage regulator? Does the ALT respond better to battery load or something?

 

[FJ60Cam]

To get the old regulator off, remove the plastic cover, and then the three torx screws. Now only a soldered connection and this post are the only thing keeping it on.

Hammer the stud (with nut on the end) to loosen the post, then slide it off the stud...

Then unsolder the connection...
(new VR pictured)

Ready for reassembly...

Reverse the removal steps and you are done.

The rear plastic cover needs a little trimming to accommodate the bigger four wire connector.

That's where I'm at right now. Now I need to install it back in the truck and figure out the wiring.

 

[FJ60Cam]

whats the advantage of changing the voltage regulator? Does the ALT respond better to battery load or something?

Yes, this will convert it to the good old fashioned sensing type voltage regulator.

GM put a lot of technology into controlling the newer alternators and, unfortunately, I do not have that technology on my truck.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Here's the wiring plan unless C-Drew or Tom says otherwise...

My 1965 Buick Skylark L92/6L80 Swap - Page 28 - LS1TECH

 

[Elbert]

I'm putting a CS 144 OEM alt on my 5.7, it has been running single wire version of the CS144, but I want to run a OEM style since if it breaks I'll have a ready source for replacement. Got to figure out wiring.

 

[FJ60Cam]

Yeah I'm converting a DR44 to an AD244. I need to figure out what those came in so I can find a replacement if the need arises.

 

[TrickyT]

Here's the wiring plan unless C-Drew or Tom says otherwise...

My 1965 Buick Skylark L92/6L80 Swap - Page 28 - LS1TECH

PLIS is a new one on me. Toyota uses IG, L, S, and sometimes M. IG goes to switched power source and is what controls the power to the armature to create the magnetic field. L controls the idiot light in the dash. And S is the voltage sense input for the regulator and goes to the fuse block in the engine compartment where it senses the voltage being supplied to many downstream circuits. M goes to the ECU in some rigs but can be left unconnected. There's got to be info on the web somewhere that translates the Toyota nomenclature to that used on the DR44G.

The charge warning light on your 60 may not be a direct connect to the L equivalent terminal on the DR44G. At least it's not on an FJ62 (which is what my wiring diagram is for). On that vehicle there is a relay and some other circuits that the "charge" warning lamp is connected to and the L terminal connected to that relay, located in the P/S cowl trim. To know for sure about the FJ60 I'd need to look at the charging circuit diagram for that vehicle. I guess you could leave off the charge lamp, but it is pretty important and is your first sign that something is wrong with the alternator or regulator.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I'm not sure why you can't use the GM wiring unless it was disabled in the ECU or wiring loom. My limited understanding is that a modern (last 10 years or so) GM is that it's a real charge controller, not just straight voltage regulation. That's a huge benefit and your battery will last longer if you can get it working. It should boost the voltage to 14.5 or so until the battery stops absorbing current, then immediately drop the battery to 13.8 or so as a "float" voltage.

But I can see the logic in just having a simple dumb regulator that charges at 14.0v which will work fine.

The charge lamp in the FJ60 is lit by a relay when the alternator is generating less current than the system is using, and the battery is discharging. I think FJ62 is similar, with the addition of remote voltage sensing.

Get this figured out before you do my FJ60 swap, ok?

 

[TrickyT]

OK, at least some of the scoop on P-L-F-S. From this excellent web page: Alternator Theory v15:

"The terminals are designated as follows:

P-Terminal: The Pulse/Phase terminal can provide a 12V square wave to determine alternator speed, used by some Electronic Control Units. Connects to the stator. Some ECU’s monitor this signal and adjust engine parameters accordingly.

L-Terminal: This terminal is connected to the “Low” side of the warning lamp, with the lamp’s “High” side being fed by the ignition circuit. Some regulators require a 35-ohm resistance inline with this circuit if no lamp is used otherwise alternator damage may ensue. Some applications have a resistor connected in parallel to the lamp in case the lamp bulb opens up and burns out. The resistor will be there to provide a path for current and voltage. Some vehicles supply a 5Vdc reference to this terminal from their ECU; other vehicles don’t, so be aware of the various models of regulators. Other regulators may be tested by application of a 50-Ohm pull-up resistor to connect the L-Terminal to the 12Vdc source, I believe that any resistance between 35 Ohms (5-Watt resistor) and 500 Ohms (1/2 Watt resistor) can be used safely.

F/I-terminal: has several duties depending on the specific regulator, some regulators have a resistor that is internally connected between the Field and Lamp terminal. Other regulators use the F/I terminal to provide field duty cycle information to the vehicle's ECU. These regulators are not interchangeable, but for our Jeeps, it hardly matters. For ECU related vehicles it can be of paramount importance. If the alternator that is selected comes from a vehicle that only uses the I-Terminal then the wiring may simply require a wire from an ignition source in order for the alternator to operate correctly.

S-terminal: This is the “Sense” terminal and is connected to the battery. It senses the voltage level of the battery and feeds the regulator circuit this reference so that the regulator can adjust the Pulse Width Modulation to control the alternators output. The S-terminal on the CS-130D regulator is the same size as the other three terminals, unlike that of the CS-130."

So, Cam, it sounds to me like F and P connections are not needed for your application.

EDIT: For sure the P terminal can be left disconnected. After more reading the F/I terminal may need to go to switched 12v power through a fuse. I say "may need to go" because it looks like there are different models of these alternators out there. Did yours come with the LS motor and do you know what vehicle it came out of?

 

[FJ60Cam]

Cool. I'm going to stop by Radio Shack and see if they have a resistor (470 ohm/ 1/2 watt seems common).

I'll run it solo at a minimum, but try to wire it in parallel with my dash lamp if I can find the wires easily.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram that shows what the wires that connect to a stock 60 alternator do? Is there a remote sense in there that measures downstream voltage?

Is the battery + sufficient for a sense source, or should I go further downstream like at the stock fuse panel? There won't be much loss at the battery vs. the alternator output.