Cam's FJ60 Gets a Heart Transplant

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I think there needs to be switched 12v somewhere in the circuit, otherwise I would worry that the armature stays energized all the time and that would drain the battery quickly when the motor isn't running. That may be handled by the lamp wire, but I don't know that. I'll look some more for info specific to the DR44G.
 
TrickyT said:
I think there needs to be switched 12v somewhere in the circuit, otherwise I would worry that the armature stays energized all the time and that would drain the battery quickly when the motor isn't running. That may be handled by the lamp wire, but I don't know that. I'll look some more for info specific to the DR44G.
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I think that is the 'I' connection. Here's how I'll hook it up, since I have the same VR as this guy...

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Sounds good. I edited post #858 to indicate that possibility. The switched 12v source connected to the I terminal should run through a fuse. To determine what size hook an ammeter into the circuit and monitor the current draw when the alternator is under heavy load, then add 50% to the value and use that. I'm guessing that the current draw will be 5-10A, so use a 7.5 or 15A fuse. But measure to make sure.
 
Here's another good reference source for the P-L-F/I-S terminals on Delco CS-series alternators: Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world. Scroll 3/4 of the way down the page to the section titled "CS Series / 4-terminal Alternators."

The pirate4x4 writeup does the best job I've seen explaining the difference between the "F" terminal and the "I" terminal. Your new voltage regulator will have one or the other but not both. On your old regulator it must have been an "F" terminal and supplied a signal to the original ECU so it could monitor the rotor's magnetic field. On your new voltage regulator it should be an "I" terminal and is used to supply the field current to the rotor.

Direct quote from the page noted above:

"Alternators will have either an “F” terminal or an “I” terminal, but not both.

If the alternator has an “F” terminal (i.e. no "I" terminal):
  • It must be excited by the L terminal.
  • When exciting via the L terminal, there must be some resistance in the circuit (bulb and/or resistor) or a short circuit will be created.
  • If no alternator warning lamp is desired, a 50 Ohm resistor is used.
  • If an alternator warning lamp is used, a resistor should still be used, in parallel with the lamp. This is so that the bulb burning out does not prevent current flow and therefore alternator excitation. The resistor should be equivalent to a 3-4 watt bulb. Using Ohms law, we can use the Electrical Wheel of Doom from Part 1 to calculate the required value of the resistor as R = V^2 / Watts. In this case R = (14v*14v) / 4W = 49 Ohms. So a 50 Ohm resistor will do.

If the alternator has an “I” terminal:
  • You can use this I terminal to excite the alternator, whether or not you are using an alternator warning lamp (i.e. whether or not anything is connected to terminal L).
  • Terminal “I” has a built-in internal resistor to prevent a short circuit when connected to the excitor wire. Therefore, you can connect the ignition switch to terminal “I” using an excitor wire with or without a resistor in series.
  • If you do not have or do not wish to install an alternator warning lamp, you can excite the alternator by connecting the ignition switch to terminal “I” using an excitor wire with or without a resistor in series.
  • If you do have an alternator warning lamp connected to terminal “L”, you can still connect the the ignition switch to terminal “I” using an excitor wire with or without a resistor in series as a backup method of exciting the alternator. This is good practice as this type of redundancy enhances reliability."

Obviously don't go by the letters stamped on the alternator case, since it's the voltage regulator inside that makes the difference. And don't go by the new metri-pack connector you got since it doesn't care and is the same for both types of regulators.
 
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Thanks Tom. I do have a PLIS regulator.

I picked up some 470 ohm/ .5 watt resistors based on several recent write ups. I'll try and get it wired this weekend and report back.
 
We used the BillaVista reference when wiring up the CS style alternator during JRob's V8 swap. His was a PLFS style, and we soldered in a 50 ohm resistor into the L connection which was taken off the positive terminal of the ignition coil (obviously not possible in your later model coil pack setup). Since this ignition source was 'further down' the wiring system, we figured it was an ideal location for the sensing connection too. As such we just jumped the S terminal to the L terminal at the alternator plug. Has worked well.
 
fountainhead said:
We used the BillaVista reference when wiring up the CS style alternator during JRob's V8 swap. His was a PLFS style, and we soldered in a 50 ohm resistor into the L connection which was taken off the positive terminal of the ignition coil (obviously not possible in your later model coil pack setup). Since this ignition source was 'further down' the wiring system, we figured it was an ideal location for the sensing connection too. As such we just jumped the S terminal to the L terminal at the alternator plug. Has worked well.
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Thats right. Thats exactly how I instructed yall to do it.....
 
Cam, are you going to try to make the not-charging lamp in the dash operational too?
 
Well since the same lamp comes on for other reasons besides no charge, and if you want to retain that Toyota OEM functionality, then he must adapt the DR44G regulator to the FJ60 vehicle wiring. I hadn't read that he was committed to doing that.
 
Cameron is a steelie eyed middle man. There is no way he's tipping his hat at this juncture

He told me yesterday instead of a light he was thinking about a Obama bobblehead the will start rockin if the Alts not chargin
 
:lol:

I haven't publicly committed to either the lamp or Obobble, or a lighted Obobble. Yet.

Does anyone know what the wires that plug into the back of the original 60 alternator do? I have abandoned them all in place but did not remove them.

Does the stock 60 alternator/voltage regulator 'sense' the voltage, or does it just get excited and run at some set output? I'm thinking I might be able to tie into it. Maybe even operate the lamp.
 
The FJ60 EWD from 1980 that I have shows two types of alternators, one with an external voltage regulator and the other with internal VR. Assuming yours had an internal VR, then there were three connections: the +B output terminal, the IG terminal fed by a yellow wire from a fused +12v circuit that was energized by the ignition relay, and the L terminal (yellow-white wire) that either connects directly to the charge lamp through the 5A "charge" fuse or connects to a "charge light relay" if your vehicle had the "ECE Option" (whatever that is). It looks to me that either with or without the charge relay you can just connect the yellow-white wire to the L terminal on your new VR. Some sources on the web say you also need a 50 ohm resistor in parallel with the charge lamp so the alternator will still be energized if the lamp burns out, but since your new VR is the PLIS type, the alternator gets energized through the I terminal and I don't see the need for the resistor.

If you go the bobblehead route then you're on your own. :)
 
I feel like you are getting short changed here, Tom. You didn't get to play with the mad scientist lab like you did with the AC amplifier :D

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I'll make it up to you when I do Andy's swap :grinpimp:

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Here's the plan: I'll dig out the old connector (pictured above), check the wire colors, test the yellow 12+ ignition to be sure that's what it is, and extend them to the new appropriate connections (I & L). I'll extend an S(ense) wire from the factory fuse panel. This should be the last point in the distribution system. All accessories (winch, fridge, compressor, stereo amplifiers, etc. have home runs to the battery).

Updates to follow.
 
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Question for @TrickyT...

I dug out the old connector - there is a solid yellow wire that is confirmed to be +12v ignition. The other wire is a black w/yellow stripe. Does this show up on your EWD for the external VR? (hopefully a lamp wire)

Another general question - I'm getting a pretty good voltage drop at this yellow wire as I turn on accessories (as compared to the battery voltage)... is there any reason I can't also use this as the sense signal?

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I am spitting out some serious voltage now. Maybe too much. Maybe not. Depends on where you measure it.

I connected the yellow ignition wire to the S & I terminals, and the black/yellow to the L terminal. (I found a thread where these wires were used on a CS style alternator and it worked...Documentation of Alt Wiring V-8 Swaps)

I've tried the L both with and without a resistor.

With the engine running and no accessories, I'm getting ~15V at the battery terminals. My scanguage reads 14.4 - 14.8V.

If I turn on the blower motor, lights, window defroster, etc., it jumps up to the high 15s at the battery terminals.

It is definitely regulating. The S(ense) wire reads 14.1 volts, regardless of the battery terminal readings or accessory load, so that does seem to be the basis for what it is putting out.

I could not get the lamp to work. If I unplug the black/yellow to L connection, it stops regulating. So it does seem to require that connection. I haven't ruled out that the lamp is burnt out, but I doubt it is.

If I unplug the yellow to S & I connection, but leave the L, it drops by a volt or so.

Just for reference, with the engine off, there is up to a 2V drop at the Yellow ignition wire with the engine off and the lights & hvac blower on. So it really matters where you pick up the voltage sense.

Opinions? (if you can follow all of this)
 
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My tach needle no longer jumps around :grinpimp:

It is rock steady, no matter if you have the lights or blinker on.

It just wasn't getting enough juice before.
 
Update:

I moved the S(ense) wire to the battery terminal and my voltages are down in normal range. I'm getting 14.3 at the battery with every light and blower and blinker running. Same reading with all accessories off. The scan gauge shows 13.8-ish.

Still no lamp. I'll let Tom & Andy figure that out in Death Valley.

After I make the connections permanent, I'm gonna call it done for now.
 
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Sounds perfect Cam. Those are good, rapid charge voltages. You can still do a charge light like a 60. You need a relay that turns off with the power on. Use the output of the relay to power a light. That's how a stock 60 does it.
 
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