Camping/Overlanding Gear and Packing Recommendations

[FrazzledHunter]

I assume everything was pre-chilled prior to starting the test?

I don't know exactly your wiring config, but if the Powerwerx is inline post the 13.5V regulator, it's possibly not accounting for conversion loss in the regulator?

That's a pretty idealized test. I'd bet that same fridge could suck up 2-3 times that in a more stressful scenario.

Regarding the Goal Zero power reporting. There is of course overhead in the electronics surrounding the battery. Just turning on the inverter, for example, adds a constant 9W so it reports. But I've never been able to get their numbers to match up very well even in their own reporting scheme. For example total watt hours used, vs available vs what's left don't seem to add up. For example: the charging profile is 10%-90%-100% meaning that the unit will shut off at 10% and begin recharging starting at 90% and continue to 100%. The the 1500X started at 1350 WHr accessible (1500-10%) and is now idle reporting 690WHr accessible having used 696 WHr and 56% full.

EDIT: so where did the 1500 WHr come from in my calculation above? Well it's what the Yeti 1500X reports as accessible when charged to 100% and the charging profile has 0% as the shutoff point e.g. 0%-90%-100%. I suspect the 1500 WHr is a fictitious constant and not really what the battery can actually deliver. Getting that value for a battery would require calibration by actually draining it which is not something you really want to do. I suppose you could partially drain it and assume a linear discharge rate but that would have to be ongoing as batteries age and lose their "oomph".

 

[sdnative]

I imagine 1500Wh represents the total installed energy in the system, not necessarily the usable. There will always be some difference between total and usable. The difference can be minimized by adjusting the low and high voltage/SoC cutoffs, but they won't be the same. You are measuring usable.

 

[rlynch356]

all batteries should be rated in just Watts .. that's the only way to measure capacity that is meaningful anyway.

the 1500x is rated at 1516W

Total usable watts is a function of the BMS, but in general for LiPo4 battery its 96-98% of total watt capacity before cutout to save the cells. Depends no the BMS quality/heat/other factors,
I have no idea how they implement it - those all affect the usable watts they allow from the system. also they use Li-ion NMC batteries which have a higher cell voltage, but much lower lifespan which is interesting, I guess its a volume/weight thing..

amp hours is kinda useless since that is function of watts and voltage. In fact most of their specs are pretty much useless unless you start doing math.

BATTERY DETAILS​

• Cell chemistry: Li-ion NMC
• Pack capacity: 1516Wh (10.8V, 140.4Ah) <- notice they rate this at 10.8volts... output we need is 12v (or usb @ 5v).. so the true math is 1516w / 12.8v = 118.44ah @ 12.8v so I find the number their quote is a bit misleading to the general public, even if totally true.
• Single Cell Equivalent Capacity: 421Ah @ 3.6V Humm -- Math..... 421w * 3.6v = 1515.6w IF EVERYTHING WAS AT 3.6Volts which its not since the cells would be joined in series to get 12V..
• Pack Lithium Content: 126g
• Lifecycles: 500 Cycles to 80% capacity (Discharge rate: 1C, Full charge/discharge, Temp: 25C) <- Lipo4 is generally 2000 cycles to 100% DoD... but less energy dense, but ~4x longer lifespan in cycles (high quality cells)
• Shelf-life: Charge every 3-6 months
• Management system: MPPT charge controller

To be completely fair all the battery companies pull this kinda of Marketing crap.. Renogy for instance does not list Watt's at all so you have to do the math ..100ah * 12.8v = 1280 watts to figure out if the batteries are comparable.


anyway its a neat and integrated system, I just built my own in the truck with a renogy battery, and redarc BCDC charger.
It's not portable though... and the cost if you added everything they offer would be more as well.
I personally don't like all of systems being totally integrated in a single unit and would rather have each component be replaceable if needed.
But that's just me.

 

[sdnative]

all batteries should be rated in just Watts .. that's the only way to measure capacity that is meaningful anyway.

the 1500x is rated at 1516W

Total usable watts is a function of the BMS, but in general for LiPo4 battery its 96-98% of total watt capacity before cutout to save the cells. Depends no the BMS quality/heat/other factors,
I have no idea how they implement it - those all affect the usable watts they allow from the system. also they use Li-ion NMC batteries which have a higher cell voltage, but much lower lifespan which is interesting, I guess its a volume/weight thing..

amp hours is kinda useless since that is function of watts and voltage. In fact most of their specs are pretty much useless unless you start doing math.

BATTERY DETAILS​

• Cell chemistry: Li-ion NMC
• Pack capacity: 1516Wh (10.8V, 140.4Ah) <- notice they rate this at 10.8volts... output we need is 12v (or usb @ 5v).. so the true math is 1516w / 12.8v = 118.44ah @ 12.8v so I find the number their quote is a bit misleading to the general public, even if totally true.
• Single Cell Equivalent Capacity: 421Ah @ 3.6V Humm -- Math..... 421w * 3.6v = 1515.6w IF EVERYTHING WAS AT 3.6Volts which its not since the cells would be joined in series to get 12V..
• Pack Lithium Content: 126g
• Lifecycles: 500 Cycles to 80% capacity (Discharge rate: 1C, Full charge/discharge, Temp: 25C) <- Lipo4 is generally 2000 cycles to 100% DoD... but less energy dense, but ~4x longer lifespan in cycles (high quality cells)
• Shelf-life: Charge every 3-6 months
• Management system: MPPT charge controller

To be completely fair all the battery companies pull this kinda of Marketing crap.. Renogy for instance does not list Watt's at all so you have to do the math ..100ah * 12.8v = 1280 watts to figure out if the batteries are comparable.


anyway its a neat and integrated system, I just built my own in the truck with a renogy battery, and redarc BCDC charger.
It's not portable though... and the cost if you added everything they offer would be more as well.
I personally don't like all of systems being totally integrated in a single unit and would rather have each component be replaceable if needed.
But that's just me.

Er.. what? You seem to be confusing watts, amps, watt-hours and amp-hours.

Batteries are and should be rated for instantaneous output - power (W) or current (A) as well as duration - energy (Wh) or capacity (Ah).

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Er.. what? You seem to be confusing watts, amps, watt-hours and amp-hours.

Batteries are and should be rated for instantaneous output - power (W) or current (A) as well as duration - energy (Wh) or capacity (Ah).

Going a bit off topic (sorry ).
I went to Goal Zero's website for the first time in a long time and saw that they indeed rated the Yeti 1500X at 1516Wh. However what my Goal Zero reports (with a charging profile that allows it to go to 0%) is 1500Wh available. Why? Dunno. Without doing anything else, change that profile to 10% and it reports 1350Wh available. So that's 1500-(.1x1500). Not that it matters a whole lot but nowhere does the value 1516Wh ever show up for me. Now whether you actually get that 1500Wh or 1350Wh or whatever it shows as Wh available is another story.

Hopefully the Dometic power info will help those planning any battery installation and not just those using Goal Zero's stuff. I have 2 aux batteries; in addition to the Goal Zero I have a Odyssey 35-PC1400 which can power that Dometic for a good while, like overnight. Driving in between campsites, we've already had to run it on that 2nd Odyssey battery while we took the Goal Zero into a hotel room to charge. But I do connect that watt-meter to measure watt hours & battery voltage when I do!!!

In any event, I'd strongly recommend getting a watt-meter like those made by Powerwerx.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Thinking back to the last few summers, my CFX3 75DZ running off my 100AH Renogy Lithium and a 100w Renogy solar panel through a RedArc BCDC1225 (25 Amp) would stay charged indefinitely sitting outside in 110f heat. Thats with maybe 10 miles of driving a day and some days no driving at all. I can't think of a time where I even came home from a work trip to find the battery run down after 4 or 5 days.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thinking back to the last few summers, my CFX3 75DZ running off my 100AH Renogy Lithium and a 100w Renogy solar panel through a RedArc BCDC1225 (25 Amp) would stay charged indefinitely sitting outside in 110f heat. Thats with maybe 10 miles of driving a day and some days no driving at all. I can't think of a time where I even came home from a work trip to find the battery run down after 4 or 5 days.

Not bad. Doing the math, 100w panel can give 300Wh - 600Wh in optimal conditions. BCDC assuming 20 min @ 25A, ~100Wh.

So maybe 400Wh recharge daily seems reasonable to keep things going.

 

[mceagle555]

If you are wanting to save space, highly recommend these Big Agnes Bix Six camping chairs. 3lbs and fold up into a package about the size of a roll of paper towels.

Big Six Camp Chair | Big Agnes

Our Big Six deluxe camp chair comes with plenty of comfort and convenience. With a tall back and wide seat, it sits 20 inches off the ground. Shop now.

www.bigagnes.com

If you have the space for traditional size camping chairs that weight 10-12lbs each, then I recommend these:

https://www.costco.com/swinging-hammock-chair.product.4000079781.html

 

[DRANGED]

@linuxgod
How'd the trip go?!

We left Moab for the first 2 weeks of July (a GREAT time of year to NOT be here } this year and have camped most of the places in your itenerary. Desert camping in summer necessitates much water (despite size and weight) Refilling when possible is clutch, and your trip covered different terrain and conditions for sure!. We do 2-10 night trips (we did 7 nights in the maze over thanksgiving ... With all the expected, but camping with dutch ovens, Thanksgiving meal!), and have done 2-4 week road trips punctuated with stays with family, hotels and camping in the SW, PNW, Midwest (e.g. a week in death valley a couple years ago) We do two or three 20L scepters behind the 2nd row and use a 10L for filling bottles and camp water needs (topped off at the end of the day), in front of a home-made gear shelf that lets the cooler and kitchen stuff be accessed w/o unpacking the world (we did the latter for a while, THAT sucked!).

We're me, wife two boys (now 11 and 13), and have been multi-night car camping/overlanding/land-boating (my term ) as long as we've had kids, and differently before kids. I was a climber in my 20s-early 30s and my wife a backpacker in her 20s- early 30s. Different camping gear with those interests ;p

We run a kind of bumbled packing/rigging scheme
(no drawers/wolf paks/frontrunner/fridge/sterilites/action packers/bear cans, etc..) But we get it all in and on the GX. Rooftop carrier typically for soft goods (tent, pads, bags, pillows, chairs, etc), on the tray I secure firewood if that's on the list, tool kit, recovery gear, pooper (see below), 11# propane bottle. We do a cooler (Coleman extreme 62qt, same exterior size as 42 Qt RTIC which is half full with 2 blocks of ice... the insulation's not worth the space hit since its packed inside) with block ice (Moab Ice is hands down THE BEST BLOCK ICE I've encountered, ever) and a kitchen box. Kitchen box has 2-burner break-apart Parnter stove, 2 wash bins, 4 plates, 4 bowls, dish scrubbie, hand towel, oven mitt, soap, chef knife, a tupperware with all the flatware (knife, fork, spoon x4-6), can/wine opener paring knife, piezo and back-up lighter, paper towels, salt and pepper, garbage bags and zip-locks. Dry food in milk crates and grocery bags (less than ideal), clothes (packing depends on destination, duration, etc.) Either in duffles or dry bags. (Cuz they can pack tightly and make a consistent shape).

In national parks we store food and kitchen box in bear boxes, in the desert SW we keep food in the car related to
Mesocarnivores and rodents mainly. Desert Black bear avoid people, NP bears dig into cars. In grizzley country that's a different world with different rules.

We have a folding table, sometimes bring a firepan (again SW boating gear) and always have a portable toilet (day tripper) in a . 50 Cal wide ammo can and wag bags/reststop2

Typical black diamond headlamps, and rechargeable led 'camp/tent lantern', we have a couple solar lanterns (dash recharge) and comfy bedding (sleeping bags (down for adults synthetic for kids) and camping pads, see below). In shoulder seasons we do two 2-person tents and In summer we do the cavernous kingdom6 (the first one lasted 11 years!!!! ). Wife and I have transitioned to cot with foam pad, she has a backpacking one, I have a heavier, wider Chinese knock-off, kids get our old thermarest and mountain hardware pads.

We like food so have a rotating camp Menu, not backpacker/freeze dried stuff. My wife calls me a maximalist, but in the end she admits the comforts are nice (chairs, firepan sometimes, cots, 2-3 ways to brew coffee (sadly I STILL don't have a jet boil), little plastic bellows for fire time, extendable shallow roasting sticks, sometimes the Dutch own with charcoal etc.

 

[Wicked0ne18]

Napa awning cheap route. Been using mine for a bit and holding up good. Need it when there’s no shades and when it rains. Good for cooking n staying dry.

Fridge and portable battery bank with solar panels. Don’t need to deal with ice and spoiled food.

rooftop cargo box. Helps a bunch with packing.

 

[linuxgod]

@linuxgod
How'd the trip go?!

We left Moab for the first 2 weeks of July (a GREAT time of year to NOT be here } this year and have camped most of the places in your itenerary. Desert camping in summer necessitates much water (despite size and weight) Refilling when possible is clutch, and your trip covered different terrain and conditions for sure!. We do 2-10 night trips (we did 7 nights in the maze over thanksgiving ... With all the expected, but camping with dutch ovens, Thanksgiving meal!), and have done 2-4 week road trips punctuated with stays with family, hotels and camping in the SW, PNW, Midwest (e.g. a week in death valley a couple years ago) We do two or three 20L scepters behind the 2nd row and use a 10L for filling bottles and camp water needs (topped off at the end of the day), in front of a home-made gear shelf that lets the cooler and kitchen stuff be accessed w/o unpacking the world (we did the latter for a while, THAT sucked!).

We're me, wife two boys (now 11 and 13), and have been multi-night car camping/overlanding/land-boating (my term ) as long as we've had kids, and differently before kids. I was a climber in my 20s-early 30s and my wife a backpacker in her 20s- early 30s. Different camping gear with those interests ;p

We run a kind of bumbled packing/rigging scheme
(no drawers/wolf paks/frontrunner/fridge/sterilites/action packers/bear cans, etc..) But we get it all in and on the GX. Rooftop carrier typically for soft goods (tent, pads, bags, pillows, chairs, etc), on the tray I secure firewood if that's on the list, tool kit, recovery gear, pooper (see below), 11# propane bottle. We do a cooler (Coleman extreme 62qt, same exterior size as 42 Qt RTIC which is half full with 2 blocks of ice... the insulation's not worth the space hit since its packed inside) with block ice (Moab Ice is hands down THE BEST BLOCK ICE I've encountered, ever) and a kitchen box. Kitchen box has 2-burner break-apart Parnter stove, 2 wash bins, 4 plates, 4 bowls, dish scrubbie, hand towel, oven mitt, soap, chef knife, a tupperware with all the flatware (knife, fork, spoon x4-6), can/wine opener paring knife, piezo and back-up lighter, paper towels, salt and pepper, garbage bags and zip-locks. Dry food in milk crates and grocery bags (less than ideal), clothes (packing depends on destination, duration, etc.) Either in duffles or dry bags. (Cuz they can pack tightly and make a consistent shape).

In national parks we store food and kitchen box in bear boxes, in the desert SW we keep food in the car related to
Mesocarnivores and rodents mainly. Desert Black bear avoid people, NP bears dig into cars. In grizzley country that's a different world with different rules.

We have a folding table, sometimes bring a firepan (again SW boating gear) and always have a portable toilet (day tripper) in a . 50 Cal wide ammo can and wag bags/reststop2

Typical black diamond headlamps, and rechargeable led 'camp/tent lantern', we have a couple solar lanterns (dash recharge) and comfy bedding (sleeping bags (down for adults synthetic for kids) and camping pads, see below). In shoulder seasons we do two 2-person tents and In summer we do the cavernous kingdom6 (the first one lasted 11 years!!!! ). Wife and I have transitioned to cot with foam pad, she has a backpacking one, I have a heavier, wider Chinese knock-off, kids get our old thermarest and mountain hardware pads.

We like food so have a rotating camp Menu, not backpacker/freeze dried stuff. My wife calls me a maximalist, but in the end she admits the comforts are nice (chairs, firepan sometimes, cots, 2-3 ways to brew coffee (sadly I STILL don't have a jet boil), little plastic bellows for fire time, extendable shallow roasting sticks, sometimes the Dutch own with charcoal etc.

The trip went well. I’ll post about it in a few weeks once I can go through the pics. My son and I only needed a few gallons of water per day, even in the maze for 3+ days we only used maybe 6-7 gallons.

Camping with the family we normally use our trailer, so we have 45 gallons of fresh water in that plus another 15 on the truck which I can easily add if we run low. We can go 5-6 days including showers, bathroom, etc, though we do put kitchen water into a wash basin and dump that into the black tank since our gray and black tanks are 45g and we tend to fill the gray tank first otherwise.

I’ll post the list of stuff I brought and where I’d probably cut in the future. We ended up packing the truck tight, and used the second row for bins of clothes and food. Trying to do the trip with >2 people would’ve required scaling down a lot more.

 

[Boomstick]

The 200 is being built to sleep in

 

[bloc]

Most of my road-trips are solo but I’ve found an in-vehicle system that works well and still prioritizes headroom unlike if I had drawers or a platform.

When I stop to sleep the Rubbermaid bins get pushed to the side and the sleeping pad unfolded, the mosquito nets onto the rear doors, and depending on how much other stuff that may get moved to a front seat. This takes about two minutes.

The pad doesn’t get truly deflated, just folded in half. Two Rubbermaids are side by side with a cam strap through the middle row seat anchors to keep them from sliding around.

Cooking setup is very compact

 

[doru]

Nice setup, more of the get going than sitting around. Getting the joy of camping from being there and less from setting the camp and playing with gear. Different perspective...

 

[bloc]

Nice setup, more of the get going than sitting around. Getting the joy of camping from being there and less from setting the camp and playing with gear. Different perspective...

Totally. For my Colorado trips where I do have familiar areas and something of a base camp I’ll then put up a 3-person tent to sleep in and usually a kelty noahs tarp for shade and rain coverage. Still pretty quick. But over the years I’ve lost my appreciation for driving through the night and this setup gives me the ability to pull over when and wherever, get sleeping quick, then get moving equally as quickly when I feel like it.

For trips with two people to sleep the cooler goes on the roof or ground outside, and rubbermaids get tossed into the front seats. Still working on a good sleeping pad setup for that..

I’m also fine with relatively simple meals that don’t need two burners.

 

[doru]

That stove is a great stove despite its small size (compared to camping stoves, large compared to backpacking stoves).

 

[bloc]

That stove is a great stove despite its small size (compared to camping stoves, large compared to backpacking stoves).

Original MSR windpro. I did backpack with it for years.

You get the convenience and performance of backpacking canisters, but a lower and more stable pot while being able to use wind protection. It folds into almost nothing as well.

My strict backpacking stove is a snowpeak gigapower and the windpro is only slightly larger while being far more functional.