Brake Caliper guru's

[2001LC]

So I'm rebuilding the brakes on my 07. SS brake lines, OEM rotors, pad, shims, etc. Also pick up caliper rebuild kits. While looking at the rear caliper in the FSM, I notice it states the bushing for the lower slide pin is not reusable. Bushing is only sold with the slide pin. Now usually I replace slides because of rust, but this are ok.

Edited: In some pictures you'll see Slee SS brake lines which I did use. In some you'll see StopTech, which I did NOT use as they leak.

So now looking at the FSM, I'm wonder if it just means; if busing is removed from slide pin?
That if slide pin is just pulled out of caliper and bushing not removed from it, we need not replace or do we.

What do you think the FSM mean?

 

[Spike555]

I always reused them and have never had a problem. Just lube it well with high temp anti sieze.
Our mechanic at work uses the copper anti sieze that you use on O2's to lube the slide pins.

 

[uHu]

I also reused them, but I can't remember those brass rings at the tip of the pins.
Using a non-metalic paste, like ceramic grease, might be better in order to avoid reactions between two metals.

 

[NoVaGator]

I've just reused them. They didn't seem interested in coming off of the pin anyway.

 

[OGBeno]

What that indicator means is that every time you go in there, those parts (per Toyota) have to be replaced.

Of course, you can do whatever you want.

 

[2001LC]

I always reused them and have never had a problem. Just lube it well with high temp anti sieze.
Our mechanic at work uses the copper anti sieze that you use on O2's to lube the slide pins.

I also reused them, but I can't remember those brass rings at the tip of the pins.
Using a non-metalic paste, like ceramic grease, might be better in order to avoid reactions between two metals.

I've just reused them. They didn't seem interested in coming off of the pin anyway.

Thanks for the replies guys.

I too have just reused the glide pins if looked good and admittedly never notice the brass bushing or keep on the end.

The rubber bushing as @NoVaGator said "didn't seem interested in coming off"

But what I'm after is the intent of the FSM.
Example:
I had interpreted the FSM wrong for years on "wheel bearings" with two issues. One being "bearing & races" as non reusable (which I always reused). Then someone pointed out to me "That's if race removed" DUH!

In this case FSM shows rubber bushing separated from glide pin, as it does with most all component break downs. Interestingly Toyota does not sell rubber bushing separate from glide pin, nore do they include in caliper kit which you'd think they would if they recommend replacement for just going in there.

I'm sure I could pull off the rubber bushing easily, as it looks today (used). I'm picking up new OEM glide pins and I'll compare.

What that indicator means is that every time you go in there, those parts (per Toyota) have to be replaced.

Of course, you can do whatever you want.

This is what I'm after! Thanks @beno for your opinion, or is this more than opinion?
________________

As for lubricante:

The copper anti-seize is and interesting idea! But is technically not a lubricant, nor does it state safe for rubber, nor specifically state brake parts, it also washes out with HP water.

The Ceramic grease like the Permatex Ceramic Extreme Brake is interesting also. But according to Permatex is for metal to metal contact only.

I'm more comfortable going with lubes that state specifically brakes and their associated rubber: Permatex Silicone Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant, CRC brake Caliper Grease, SIL-GLYDE, etc

When dealing with brakes I find it important to remember, it use a differ rubber than any other system on our rigs. I made a mistake years ago with brake fluid. I grab a bottle of power steering additive (look the same as brake fluid bottle DUH) and poured into a brake reservoir. It was the metal type reservoir which had a rubber seal/boot under its cover in contact with the fluid. I quickly realized what I'd done, and sucked all fluid out of reservoir and replaced with brake fluid. Over time (relatively short) the rubber became swollen and needed replacing.

I don't know if the rubber bushing in gueston here or the boots for glide pins are made of the same rubber designed for brake fluid only. But it very possible they are. For this reason I only use lubes on brake parts that state use for brakes glides pin and/or safe for brake rubber.

Also it's possible (I'll see when I compare) new rubber bushing is glued to glide pin or old has changed in size with use.

In most cases I'm more concerned with boot of glide pins and the bleeder caps. Bad or missing boot & caps cause bad things to accrue like rust.

 

[OGBeno]

In certain situations, I would adhere to the Toyota technical parameters. In certain situations, it becomes obvious that a certain part can be reused.

 

[NoVaGator]

@2001LC if you're not reusing the old pin/bushing, please try to get the old bushing off of the old pin (out of pure curiosity)

It seemed to me like I would need to cut it off with a razor.... it certainly wouldn't slide off easily.

 

[2001LC]

In certain situations, I would adhere to the Toyota technical parameters. In certain situations, it becomes obvious that a certain part can be reused.

Ok! And in this situation?

@2001LC if you're not reusing the old pin/bushing, please try to get the old bushing off of the old pin (out of pure curiosity)

It seemed to me like I would need to cut it off with a razor.... it certainly wouldn't slide off easily.

On the used ones I've pictured above, they move easily and I'm sure I can just pull off!

 

[dace voit]

I'm more comfortable going with lubes that state specifically brakes and their associated rubber: Permatex Disk Brake Caliper Lube, CRC brake Caliper Grease, SIL-GLYDE, etc

I have always used Sil-Glyde for the caliper pins. It works well.

 

[NoVaGator]

Interesting. Do the new ones have similar play?

 

[2001LC]

I have always used Sil-Glyde for the caliper pins. It works well.

I've used for years, too. But had a very trusted Lexus mechanic (oldest in state of CO) once say to me, he "didn't like". He seemed to be on the hunt for a good brake lube.

I find glide pins stuck very often, in this case two of the four and boots where good. Seems issue of sticky glides pins is on going!
My tube is at least 10 years old, maybe time to refresh.

Interesting. Do the new ones have similar play?

I'll let you know when I get the new ones.

 

[uHu]

Come to think of it, the last time I assembled the rear calipers, I used silicon grease on the slide pins, and it seems to be holding up well. Will know more when brake service time comes up in the summer.
My rubbers were much more worn than what is pictured above here, and would rather come off than stay on. It was fiddly to get them inside the bore without getting pinched on the edge, but still they seem to hold up fine. Should have been changed of course, in that state.
I agree that the boots are the most important rubbers here, both of the slide pins and on the piston.

What is the meaning of the FSM author is hard to say, but as long as they are firm and look good as on the pic above, I would reuse.

 

[dace voit]

I find glide pins stuck very often, in this case two of the four and boots where good. Seems issue of sticky glides pins is on going!
My tube is at least 10 years old, maybe time to refresh.

Mine is older as well, but still seems like it did when I first opened it.

I went in and re-lubed the pins every 10k or so on my 80. I've seen the same where the lube thickened up a bit but didn't get sticky if I re-lubed as PM. As I said, that was on my 80 series. The 100 pins are clearly different with the bushing attached to the end of the pin. If they aren't a re-useable part then finding a longer lasting lube might be the ticket. I don't want to replace those pins every 10k or so just to check the lube.

The last sentence brings the question, are the pins not re-useable because of wear over the life of the pads, or because the bushings are worn into a shape once installed?

 

[toyotaspeed90]

I don't know if the rubber bushing in gueston here or the boots for glide pins are made of the same rubber designed for brake fluid only. But it very possible they are. For this reason I only use lubes on brake parts that state use for brakes glides pin and/or safe for brake rubber.

I don't know why they would be - unless there's a catastrophic failure, they don't come in contact with brake fluid....

While I haven't done the brakes on our 100 yet (though there's some light squeeling that is brake related - I'm going to assume the PO had a shop do something and not very well) - I only replace the rubber components if they are getting hard/dry/cracked. I've had numerous Toyota's from the 80's where the rubber boot that the pin slides through is perfectly fine 25 years later.

I also use sil-glyde. I think mine is in a NAPA tube, probably 10 years old as well....

 

[bigredmachine]

It seemed to me like I would need to cut it off with a razor.... it certainly wouldn't slide off easily.

you can take them off easily, all you need is a small pocket screwdriver if the grease is all cruddy or if the grease is still good you can just pull it off with some effort

 

[dinnertime]

You're looking for toyota part #08887-01206 to lube the slide pins.

 

[white_lx]

My rubbers were much more worn than what is pictured above here, and would rather come off than stay on. It was fiddly to get them inside the bore without getting pinched on the edge, but still they seem to hold up fine. Should have been changed of course, in that state.

Same here. The most frustrating part of the job was trying to get them back in without pushing the sleeve off the pin. I was about to leave them off till I was able to get new ones.

The PO probably used a mineral oil based grease resulting in the swelling, i.e. it is probably a silicone sleeve (not rubber). Silicone based greases are compatible with rubber, EPDM and silicone rubbers and are always best to use when in doubt.

I think they are only to create some drag and prevent rattling. The 'brass ring' is probably a bronze material, which is the actual gliding surface.

Just made a note to order new ones. Thanks.

 

[Spike555]

I think our mechanic uses that stuff because it is cheap to buy by the bottle, it has a applicator brush, has high heat resistance and he goes through a lot of it.
Granted, we eat brakes for lunch so longevity is not an issue for us.

I've always seen the factory service manual like the Bible, don't kill anyone, but you can kick their @ss for being annoying.

Don't reuse a guide pin bushing, unless screw it reuse a guide pin bushing.

And remember, we are not supposed to have access to the FSM, the dealer has access to all the parts all of the time. So of course they are going to be told to not reuse things, this also helps insure against costumer complaints.
That's why brake rotors get turned everytime they do brake pads, to prevent squealing and customer complaints tying up the shop for brake noise that would go away after the new brake pads were broken in.

 

[2001LC]

Mine is older as well, but still seems like it did when I first opened it.

I went in and re-lubed the pins every 10k or so on my 80. I've seen the same where the lube thickened up a bit but didn't get sticky if I re-lubed as PM. As I said, that was on my 80 series. The 100 pins are clearly different with the bushing attached to the end of the pin. If they aren't a re-useable part then finding a longer lasting lube might be the ticket. I don't want to replace those pins every 10k or so just to check the lube.

The last sentence brings the question, are the pins not re-useable because of wear over the life of the pads, or because the bushings are worn into a shape once installed?

That is really staying on top of the 80's brakes. Kudos!

Good questions. If rubber bushing or slide pin worn or deformed I'd replace, for what I'd call non serviceable. But I suspect FSM is calling "non reusable" only if rubber bushing pulled from sliding pin, BUT IDK.

I'll have a new set of pins soon and we'll see if I can find any differences. My old ones really look pretty good. Although RH rear caliper slide pins have some tooling marks and were stuck. So someone's been into it in before. All glide pin boots (LH & RH caliper) appeared on tight and good condition. When boots not snugly fit or bad, is where I find stuck pins. So maybe these boots during last brake job, were fitted back on but glides & pins not cleaned out. IDK, but for some reason RH side both pins were stuck. I did find a little corrosion on upper pin bore (no pitting), which indicate boot issue at some time. LH side was silding just find. So I don't see a sticky issue from rubber bushing not being replaced, or I'd should see sticking on both sides of this job.

Note: Grease thickening, swollen rubber or corrosion are the only reason I've seen slide pins stick.

After cleaning with solvent's, I cleaning with gun barrel bore brush (they don't last long before flattening out) if needed.

I get more aggressive if I need to. Wrapping sand paper around barrel brush works pretty good. I hit lightly with a course if needed, but work my way down or just start with fine (judgment call).

I don't know why they would be - unless there's a catastrophic failure, they don't come in contact with brake fluid....

While I haven't done the brakes on our 100 yet (though there's some light squeeling that is brake related - I'm going to assume the PO had a shop do something and not very well) - I only replace the rubber components if they are getting hard/dry/cracked. I've had numerous Toyota's from the 80's where the rubber boot that the pin slides through is perfectly fine 25 years later.

I also use sil-glyde. I think mine is in a NAPA tube, probably 10 years old as well....

I agree, slide pin bushing should not come into contact with brake fluid. That said; Mr T may have accounted for bad slide pin boots, leaky calipers/lines or messy bleeding or caliper rebuilding job. In any case they call for same grease on slide pins as on piston & seal and boots which do come into contact with brake fluid.

You're looking for toyota part #08887-01206 to lube the slide pins.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I've just order that Lithium soap base glycol grease (Toyota rubber grease 08887-01206), the same type lube that comes in tiny package of the rear caliper kit.

Also the Disc Brake Grease 08887-80609, the same type lube that come in a tiny package of the shim kit.

My other lube is getting old and this will take the guesswork out of grease for me.

Found this interesting thread on brake grease What brake lube do you use? Note: The greases are not water soluble.

This is going to be one pricey brake job!