use this very setup , works great
Bleeding brakes: MityVac or Motive?
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Malleus
Far west of Siegen
One thing that might have gotten lost in the discussion here is that the requirement for a flush, or LSBPV replacement, isn't the same as that for a simple bleed operation, such as when you pull the brakeline form the front caliper. Just sayin'...
I probably wouldn't break out the Motive for a brake job, but it sure helped on the brake system job(s) I had. Thanks again, @Izzyandsue
I probably wouldn't break out the Motive for a brake job, but it sure helped on the brake system job(s) I had. Thanks again, @Izzyandsue
And if none of those options exist, a long screw driver, pry bar, pipe, or 2x4 between the front of the seat and the pedal will do it. Just move the seat forward to put pressure on the pedal.
To the original post - Which works better, the Motive or the Mity-Vac method?
I've used both and found better results from the Motive style method. Pressure pushing down through the brake system seemed to finally get that damned LSPV to cough up it's bubbles. The mity-vac didn't have it in it to PULL the bubbles out. I have no idea why, because I have had success before using them.
So, after doing the brakes on my truck with the wife smashing the pedal, then graduated to a mity-vac and now the "pressure bleeder" that I made from parts bought at home depot. I prefer the pressure bleeder. I ran 1.5 gallons of brake fluid through the lines after I did my new master cylinder. I replaced the master because the original with almost 200k finally leaked.
Right now my brakes feel the same as my Sienna and Camry, which for 10 years that wasn't true. It could be coincidence that they feel better after doing the master.
I've used both and found better results from the Motive style method. Pressure pushing down through the brake system seemed to finally get that damned LSPV to cough up it's bubbles. The mity-vac didn't have it in it to PULL the bubbles out. I have no idea why, because I have had success before using them.
So, after doing the brakes on my truck with the wife smashing the pedal, then graduated to a mity-vac and now the "pressure bleeder" that I made from parts bought at home depot. I prefer the pressure bleeder. I ran 1.5 gallons of brake fluid through the lines after I did my new master cylinder. I replaced the master because the original with almost 200k finally leaked.
Right now my brakes feel the same as my Sienna and Camry, which for 10 years that wasn't true. It could be coincidence that they feel better after doing the master.
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I pressure bleed, the adaptor 'was' crap, I put a piece of timber over the cap before tightening, stops the lid distorting, s***ty reservoir design IMO, wonder if anyone has come across an alternative?
Regards
Dave
Regards
Dave
I think this is the best option. Just hire a hooker. Most likely it would still be cheaper than taking it to the dealer...
Post an add on Craigslist. "Do you want to bleed?" makes sure to get the right kind of helper signing up...
FYI to readers of the thread, I was able to replace my front brake lines and flush/bleed the system easily with the gatorade bottle method (no helpers needed). Pulling the lines let a lot of air into the system but I made sure to keep the reservoir full and plugged the disconnected lines to prevent air from rising upward.
After the new lines were in it was less than 30min until the cruiser was back on the ground and ready to roll.
After the new lines were in it was less than 30min until the cruiser was back on the ground and ready to roll.
Don't forget to bleed the LSPV!! I used a mity vac hand pump. Brakes are good.
Azca
If there is a harder way - I will find it...
I have not found the vacuum method of bleeding brakes to be effective. I have tried a HF model and a mityvack. The mity is a nice tool and I still use it but, not exactly the way it was intended.
The two person method works, period. It just takes two people and unfortunately for me, a lot of time.
I have not tried the gravity method. I hear it works but takes a lot of time.
I am now a proponent of the pressure bleeding. Far faster and easier.
The bottom line is all the above methods work. Why all the arguments? Some people using the wrong tools, not properly performing the methods, not properly diagnosing brake problems and not properly bleeding the ABS system. This will be argued FOREVER and really, there is no right method other than choosing the one that works well for you.
Give yourself a fighting chance, use the right tools, understand the methods and how they work, don't take shortcuts and understand what and why you are fixing it and how it is to be repaired before you start. This will resolve all your problems.
I know... this post was a huge help wasn't it!
The two person method works, period. It just takes two people and unfortunately for me, a lot of time.
I have not tried the gravity method. I hear it works but takes a lot of time.
I am now a proponent of the pressure bleeding. Far faster and easier.
The bottom line is all the above methods work. Why all the arguments? Some people using the wrong tools, not properly performing the methods, not properly diagnosing brake problems and not properly bleeding the ABS system. This will be argued FOREVER and really, there is no right method other than choosing the one that works well for you.
Give yourself a fighting chance, use the right tools, understand the methods and how they work, don't take shortcuts and understand what and why you are fixing it and how it is to be repaired before you start. This will resolve all your problems.
I know... this post was a huge help wasn't it!
If it takes more than 10 minutes to bleed your brakes, you are doing something wrong. There isn’t that much brake fluid volume in the system and it doesn’t take long to pump it all out and pump in the new fluid. If the bubbles don’t come out, what you are doing is inefffective.
Azca
If there is a harder way - I will find it...
Agreed but, how do you KNOW that the bubbles aren't coming out??? (Okay, no stupid comments here please, my point is how do you know that all the air is out??? We don't have clear brake lines.) Spongy brakes are a clue but, how do you know? I have bleed my brakes, THOUGHT I got all the air out, tested them and still had spongy brakes. Bring it back, bleed it again, and still get air. Following the FSM PR, DR, PF, DF and then the LSPV. Drive, cycle the ABS, bleed again. Still have spongy brakes. Two person method did not get all the air. When I pressurized the system, that seemed, to me at least, to get it all. But others have had success in the two person method, as have I, just not on this vehicle.
By keeping the drain end of the clear hose submerged you can see if any bubbles are suspended in the fluid, and keep going until there are no more bubbles. Another reason I like the gatorade bottle method is that I can move a lot of fluid quickly (7-8 pumps at a time) which results in a faster flush/bleed as opposed to the two person method which only moves one pedal stroke worth of fluid at a time.
Not sure if this is true but I recall hearing pressure bleeders would introduce small bubbles into the fluid from the compressed air. I never used one and assume the good ones have a bladder to prevent this.
My recommendation is to visit the brake hydraulic system once a year for a flush and inspection. Then you'll always have fresh fluid and the hardware will last longer since it won't corrode from the inside due to moisture.
Not sure if this is true but I recall hearing pressure bleeders would introduce small bubbles into the fluid from the compressed air. I never used one and assume the good ones have a bladder to prevent this.
My recommendation is to visit the brake hydraulic system once a year for a flush and inspection. Then you'll always have fresh fluid and the hardware will last longer since it won't corrode from the inside due to moisture.
Azca
If there is a harder way - I will find it...
Deleted text, my system locked up.
Last edited:
Azca
If there is a harder way - I will find it...
By keeping the drain end of the clear hose submerged you can see if any bubbles are suspended in the fluid, and keep going until there are no more bubbles. Another reason I like the gatorade bottle method is that I can move a lot of fluid quickly (7-8 pumps at a time) which results in a faster flush/bleed as opposed to the two person method which only moves one pedal stroke worth of fluid at a time.
Sorry, the last post got away from me. SOP using a bottle and clear hoses to see if air is coming out but, my statement "how do you KNOW" is still valid. Just because you are not seeing air coming through the hose does not mean that all the air is out of the system. So, how do you know?
That is the trick here, how do you move the air through the system to evacuate all of it? To confidently move the air out of the plumbing you must have enough velocity to propel the air through the tubing and not allow it to reverse itself and return to a high point in the system. Velocity is the key as you must push the air confidently through the system to purge it. Again, all systems will work but can also be a bit more problematic.
Again, just to state the not so obvious, you have not removed all of the air just because you don't see air leaving the tube or into the clear bottle. When I bleed, to help visualize this, I like to take the clear tube up over the tires. This will fill the tube with fluid and you can clearly see any air escaping the system as you bleed the brakes. Same as in the bottle, I just do both...
Sorry, the last post got away from me. SOP using a bottle and clear hoses to see if air is coming out but, my statement "how do you KNOW" is still valid. Just because you are not seeing air coming through the hose does not mean that all the air is out of the system. So, how do you know?
That is the trick here, how do you move the air through the system to evacuate all of it? To confidently move the air out of the plumbing you must have enough velocity to propel the air through the tubing and not allow it to reverse itself and return to a high point in the system. Velocity is the key as you must push the air confidently through the system to purge it. Again, all systems will work but can also be a bit more problematic.
Again, just to state the not so obvious, you have not removed all of the air just because you don't see air leaving the tube or into the clear bottle. When I bleed, to help visualize this, I like to take the clear tube up over the tires. This will fill the tube with fluid and you can clearly see any air escaping the system as you bleed the brakes. Same as in the bottle, I just do both...
True, without everything being clear you can never really know for certain that no more air is in the system. I also elevate the clear hose and bottle so that any bubbles that do come out go to the drain bottle vs back into the caliper. I also don't close the bleeders until the drain bottle is full.
The true test for no air is the test drive. The brakes in my cruiser may not be the best ever made but I can tell for certain the pedal is firm and there's likely no air in the system.
The true test for no air is the test drive. The brakes in my cruiser may not be the best ever made but I can tell for certain the pedal is firm and there's likely no air in the system.
??? it will take me more than ten minutes to get the wheels off and the rig on blocks, tools/fluids out and ready, etc... I am not a job shop. Bleeding is always the easy part. It is the prep and clean up that takes the most time. Kinda like painting...
If lines have been replaced and/or caliper rebuilt, it will take a while to remove all the air.
IMHO, power bleeding is the way to go. But, it is not for everyone. If you like hookers, bleeding brakes weekly may be an option
80s are known to ruin the MC with the 2-hooker pump method. Happened to me twice, a buddy and Cdan as detailed here Brake Booster or Master Cylinder or both?
I just replaced all 4 calipers on my rig. I used the Gatorade bottle method first to get fluid into the calipers then finish off with the mityvac hand pump on each caliper and LSPV. Brakes are solid.
With the mityvac hand pump, you are just drawing the air out via the bleed valves. You will get some fluid but very little.
With the mityvac hand pump, you are just drawing the air out via the bleed valves. You will get some fluid but very little.
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It happens, in my decades of doing brakes, a few times, maybe. If there is that much crap/corrosion in the master, to cause the seals to fail, I would like to know about it. Much prefer to find out about it in the shop, than out in the woods. The master bore should be smooth and clean, like the whole bore, having enough crap in it to cause that problem, points to a very poorly maintained system, needed a new master (and likely more) anyway.
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Understand that some like to make a huge production out of a simple job, but: Why would you remove the wheels, what are blocks for? Tools; a creeper if you don't want to lay on the floor, a 10mm wrench and a can of fluid, yep exhausted, a full days work!
We usually suck the reservoir dry with a turkey baster, so more tools!
