Axle bearings & bushing. When should these be replaced?

[danimal24]

Much thanks @2001LC this past week, my 9 year old helped me identify that the noise was coming from the rear!! I dropped the fluid and replaced and then did some rotation tests. It appears my issue is the rear end!!!
Post in thread 'Rear Differential Fluid Change' Rear Differential Fluid Change - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rear-differential-fluid-change.31824/post-15628920

Replacing rear wheel bearings looks like an involved task and need a press. I will still do the front bearings when able...but got to plan for the rear first. Bummer.

 

[2001LC]

Sound is a good indicator of bearing health. You'll want to further diagnose.
Other indicators of rear axle bearing failure:
1) Gear lube found past rear axle seal, getting to and passing through axle bearing.
a) Seen: In drum. Where axle housing bolts to brake dust shield. Inside cavity of axle housing, by removing wheel speed sensor.
2) Radial and lateral play measured at wheel hub, with dial gauge.

You'll need more than a press. Some just pull axle, than have shop replacing bearing and race.

Google Search

 

[danimal24]

Sound is a good indicator of bearing health. You'll want to further diagnose.
Other indicators of rear axle bearing failure:
1) Gear lube found past rear axle seal, getting to and passing through axle bearing.
a) Seen: In drum. Where axle housing bolts to brake dust shield. Inside cavity of axle housing, by removing wheel speed sensor.
2) Radial and lateral play measured at wheel hub, with dial gauge.

View attachment 3721334

You'll need more than a press. Some just pull axle, than have shop replacing bearing and race.

Google Search

I watched Timmy's axle bearing replacement video last night. Impressed.

 

[fussychicken]

I'm in progress with a big front end overhaul and just wanted to share another data point here. My rig has 255k on it, and my needle bearing on both sides didn't appear to have been serviced in quite a while if at all.

But the good news is that they were also in good shape and rolled well and didn't appear to have any major pitting. So I cleaned them out and put in fresh grease and am going to run em. Hopefully we can go another 250k!

All cleaned up before a new seal and new grease:

 

[2001LC]

Although no "major" pitting. I do see scoring ( lines along with color & texture variation), across needle bearings. If you see scoring on axle of front drive shaft (AKA: FDS. AKA CV), also. It's time to replace them. If replacing FD, with new OEM, I'd absolutely replace those.

 

[Patassa]

I watched Timmy's axle bearing replacement video last night. Impressed.

It's not a fun job by any stretch, and if you press things on too far you're gonna have a bad time. But it's very doable, just press and check, press and check.

 

[danimal24]

It's not a fun job by any stretch, and if you press things on too far you're gonna have a bad time. But it's very doable, just press and check, press and check.

I would love to do it... but it's my daily and don't have all of the tools. Found a complete rear end assembly...going to check it out this weekend and might just replace the whole rear end! Looks way more easier...

 

[fussychicken]

Although no "major" pitting. I do see scoring ( lines along with color & texture variation), across needle bearings. If you see scoring on axle of front drive shaft (AKA: FDS. AKA CV), also. It's time to replace them. If replacing FD, with new OEM, I'd absolutely replace those.

Oh man, I might have screwed this up then. Reading early comments in this thread made it sound like these are otherwise tough bearings and as a result I wasn't really prepared to swap these out. And yes, I'm putting in new OEM FDSs as well. At least the old FDSs that came out looked very clean where this bearing rides with no scoring.

I didn't really want to cut any corners on this job, but I might let this one run for a while as I'm at the finish line (yes I know, not really the right mindset)

I want to put in new wheel bearings in the hub sometime soon-ish, so maybe I'll pull the whole assembly again for that and then do all the bearings (hub + spindle) at the same time.

As always, I do appreciate the responses @2001LC!

 

[2001LC]

If axle where bearings rode, looked good. Then you'll be okay.

 

[Patassa]

I would love to do it... but it's my daily and don't have all of the tools. Found a complete rear end assembly...going to check it out this weekend and might just replace the whole rear end! Looks way more easier...

downside to that is it's the oil seal that can go and cause problems by leaking into the bearing. There's no way to know if that used oil seal is holding or will hold for long so you'd be right back in the same spot. The oil seal is a maintenance part, it's not going to last forever.

 

[danimal24]

downside to that is it's the oil seal that can go and cause problems by leaking into the bearing. There's no way to know if that used oil seal is holding or will hold for long so you'd be right back in the same spot. The oil seal is a maintenance part, it's not going to last forever.

Roger that. Getting the parts now and doing the work. Will be an adventure!!

 

[Somebodyelse5]

@2001LC Here's a link to a really good bearing failure manual. Has some good pictures, common causes, etc.

https://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/media/_shared_media/08_media_library/01_publications/barden/brochure_2/downloads_24/barden_bearing_failures_us_en.pdf

 

[BW100]

Bad wheel bearings, are not likely going to be so bad they's set of ABS. If they were that bad, preload would be high with very little torque on adjusting nut.

Needle bearings are difficult to look at and make the call. That's why I use axle condition to help make the call.
But I do see something on yours
View attachment 3716904
Form my file. Bearings after trying to clean black paint off, not looking good.
View attachment 3716922
Here's one axle, from my pic file.

View attachment 3716921
Here's where a shop installed seal backward. This resulted in ABS kicking in, during tirms, hitting ruts, etc..





#3 Bad wheel bearing job lock nut not thread on, lock nut not on spindle & lock ring not locked - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEQp8Ut1wwI&t=68s

This seal was in backward, resulting in metal to metal rub. Installing backward. results in a false preload.
View attachment 3716917


Proper seal install
View attachment 3716918

In this last photo, showing the inner bearing and seal (correctly) installed: if you reached in and pulled upward on the inner bearing, should there be a small amount of movement between the inner bearing and seal? I noticed this the other day when I installed new bearings. I thought maybe the seal wasn’t pressed all the way in, but in fact it was - and looked identical to yours. I assume if that small amount of play is normal - prior to installation - that once it’s installed on the spindle this amount of play is eliminated by something… perhaps the shoulders of the spindle itself?

 

[Somebodyelse5]

In this last photo, showing the inner bearing and seal (correctly) installed: if you reached in and pulled upward on the inner bearing, should there be a small amount of movement between the inner bearing and seal? I noticed this the other day when I installed new bearings. I thought maybe the seal wasn’t pressed all the way in, but in fact it was - and looked identical to yours. I assume if that small amount of play is normal - prior to installation - that once it’s installed on the spindle this amount of play is eliminated by something… perhaps the shoulders of the spindle itself?

Not sure I understand your question. Where are you feeling play? If you are talking about play between the (needle rollers + Cage assembly) and he outer cup, that is normal. The bearing needs some clearance (both radially and axially) to operate smoothly. Does that help?

 

[BW100]

Not sure I understand your question. Where are you feeling play? If you are talking about play between the (needle rollers + Cage assembly) and he outer cup, that is normal. The bearing needs some clearance (both radially and axially) to operate smoothly. Does that help?

In the last photo that 2001LC posted, he showed the rotor and hub assembly sitting on the floor, with the rear side of the rotor facing upwards - this being the proper position to install the inner bearing and the seal.
Performing the exact same procedure myself, I noticed that, after installing the inner bearing and the seal, when I reached down into the hub to add some additional grease, that I could actually lift up on the inner bearing, just slightly. This caught my attention due to the shape of the seal itself. The face of the seal that goes into the hub has a lip, whereas the outer face is flat. My thought was that perhaps that lip was there to sit firmly against the bearing, preventing it from lifting so slightly as I had noticed. And maybe I’m completely wrong - that perhaps that’s exactly how it’s designed to be.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

@BW100 oooooh I understand your question. Nothing to worry about. Your wheel bearings are tapered roller bearings that work in a set. When you tighten the lock nut you apply preload to the bearings (force them together, against their opposing tapers) by pulling the shaft. Until there is preload, the outer race, rollers, and cage are just sitting in there loose... nothing to hold them. These are called separable bearings, since they are not held together as an assembly.

Here's an example of a wheel bearing hub cross section from Page 584 of the Schaeffler HR1 bearing handbook:

And for anyone that wants a ton of extra information on bearings, the manual is free to download:

Rolling bearings

Schaeffler Website

www.schaeffler.us

 

[BW100]

@BW100 oooooh I understand your question. Nothing to worry about. Your wheel bearings are tapered roller bearings that work in a set. When you tighten the lock nut you apply preload to the bearings (force them together, against their opposing tapers) by pulling the shaft. Until there is preload, the outer race, rollers, and cage are just sitting in there loose... nothing to hold them. These are called separable bearings, since they are not held together as an assembly.

Here's an example of a wheel bearing hub cross section from Page 584 of the Schaeffler HR1 bearing handbook:
View attachment 3741927

And for anyone that wants a ton of extra information on bearings, the manual is free to download:

Rolling bearings

Schaeffler Website

www.schaeffler.us

Great explanation, thank you. That cutaway drawing is really helpful as well.

 

[2001LC]

In this last photo, showing the inner bearing and seal (correctly) installed: if you reached in and pulled upward on the inner bearing, should there be a small amount of movement between the inner bearing and seal? I noticed this the other day when I installed new bearings. I thought maybe the seal wasn’t pressed all the way in, but in fact it was - and looked identical to yours. I assume if that small amount of play is normal - prior to installation - that once it’s installed on the spindle this amount of play is eliminated by something… perhaps the shoulders of the spindle itself?

You've answered yourself. But yes, "normal". Seal doesn't hold in bearing.

 

[danimal24]

Just to follow up on my initial issue (grinding noise). Ended up being the rear wheel bearings.... driver's side being the worst. Cause was from failed inner oil seal allowing diff fluid to wash out the grease in bearing and probably age.

Bought the press kit from Doug (Axle Bearing Puller Kit Toyota Land Cruiser J100 Series & Lexus LX470 1998-2007 | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/193636867095?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=PnjH2Ho6R5W&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=bEm1Q6U7QUi&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY) and a press and knocked it out. Very rewarding job. Timmy the Toolman videos were extremely helpful.

Look at this one ball bearing that fell out...looks like the moon!!!

Thanks everyone.

 

[Goose17]

If you're looking to do this and don't mind FEBEST. You can get KIT UZJ100 "Steering Knuckle Repair Kit" from PartSouq. Everything pictured is about $41 out the door. If you go OEM, the "Type K Oil Seal" 90313-99001 is $70 by itself, and that's the discounted price.