are 80 oem recovery points ok for strap recovery?

[Cruiserdrew]

has anyone seen decent recovery points mounted on an ARB bullbar? I am assuming you would want to use a backing plate.

Robbie (powderpig) did this. He inlet some steel and siamesed it right up to the ARB pull point, then welded into the bullbar structure. It looks beefy as heck. You might send him a PM and ask how he did it.

 

[e9999]

If you did that when load is applied the frame rails would crush effectively loosening the nut. The way to do it properly is, drill a large hole and sleeve the frame with a piece of DOM. You would be better off just mounting proper recovery points to the bumper or frame.

I was talking about threading the bolt through the lower captive nut and having it stick out on top where one would add another nut.



are there hooks available that have the correct bolt spacing?

 

[wildsmith]

has anyone seen decent recovery points mounted on an ARB bullbar? I am assuming you would want to use a backing plate.

I have a TJM but what I did should work on an ARB.

TJM sell a winch mounting plate for some of their alloy bumpers and it bolts onto the TJM bumper mounting brackets which are very sturdy items. Maybe ARB sell a similar thing?

I fitted one of these winch mounts to my steel TJM T15 bumper to reinforce it and make sure it could cope with the winch. I also mounted a pair of hoop recovery points sold by Scorpion Racing in the UK which are designed to fit a Landrover Defender rear cross member. The bolts holding the hoops pass through the 3mm? of bumper and 5mm of winch mount so all in all pretty sturdy.

For anything other than a gentle pull I use a 3 meter strap (none stretch) as a bridle to both recovery hoops and then whatever length strap or rope is needed. For really big pulls I use a longer bridle to the OEM hoops as well that's slack unless something goes wrong when it will stop anything flying off very far.

Works well in pretty much any direction.

Jon.

 

[Hayes]

I always try to use a choker chain or short strap connected to BOTH front or rear recovery points when I need a yank. Obviously this isn't always possible depending on the angle but it does seem to spread out the load a little.

Don't forget that the angle between the chain has to be less than 120 degrees.

Less than 120 degrees = good. This reduces the load on each point.

At 120 degrees, you're still getting the full load on each point, but they're backing each other up.

At angles greater than 120 degrees you're actually putting MORE force on the points than you would if you'd just hooked straight up to only one.

Hayes

 

[-Spike-]

I was talking about threading the bolt through the lower captive nut and having it stick out on top where one would add another nut.



are there hooks available that have the correct bolt spacing?

The front frame rails have matching holes top and bottom. Both top and bottom holes have captive nuts. I have in the past mounted the stock recovery loops on top of the front frame rails. The rear frame rails only have holes (and nuts) on the bottom.

Threading a bolt through the whole rail and both nuts would be impossible and pointless. Impossible because the threads in the nuts will not align. Pointless because if the attachment fails, it would either break the bolt between the loop and the frame due to shear force, or it would have to rip the frame rail holes (a neat trick- the doubled wall of the rail is almost 1/4" thick there. Of course, this assumes a rust free rail. If you have rust, you have no business pulling from any point.) If you really wanted to, you could remove the captive nut from the inside top of the frame rail, run a bolt through the lower nut and out the top of the rail, then put a lock nut on it, but I still don't see the point.

-Spike

 

[dmc]

I was in Moab to observe the above incident regarding the OEM loops. With that said, I will no longer use them as recovery points. The incident was not anything out the ordinary that would have put a extreme load on it. It was somewhat alarming indeed.

I'm not sure how I missed this thread. I haven't been THAT busy at work lately. I'm replacing my front loops with FJ60 hooks. We got lucky when Safado's hoop broke loose. It could have done some serious damage to me and my cruiser. I have no idea if the hooks are stronger but that d-ring flying through the air was a very deadly projectile. The obstacle we were on was not very difficult and the pull wasn't that bad. I'd never trust a loop to a hard yank. I guess we all have different experiences and I'm going off of mine. The split second where I anticpated a d-ring through my skull has me doubting the loops.
dmc

 

[TiredIronGRB]

On the rear I mounted a pintle hitch which works great with a strap (no shackle needed).

 

[skyshark186]

I bent one as you mentioned Dave. I was pulling with my 88 locked and geared bronco on a little Nissan pickup stuck to the frame in sand in a river with water rising. So needless to say there was a slight panic. Hit the bottom of the window frames before I could pull it free. Funny funny day. Broke lots of parts.

I still felt pretty good pulling on it though. I felt that the stitching on my strap would give way long before the pin, although it was hell getting a bent pin out of the hole.

i had a tractor yank me out of a very very large snowdrift I tried to "momentum" accross. It pulled on the factory points, and although he didnt "bounce" on the front there was considerable force put on them and they held fine.

 

[e9999]

so what's the consensus now on the best way to do the yanking?

would the solution be to simply do some additional welding to the OEM loops to ensure the weld is good?
or did somebody find a forged hook with the correct spacing?

 

[Dusty]

having almost finished a custom front bumper ive had a good look at the frontmost framerails. note that the frontmost 8 or so inches of the rail (part to which recovery ponts and bumper bolts) is not continuous with rest of frame but is welded to the frame behind it which wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that the weld isnt continouous either. this is only 1/8" steel. After seeing this I would agree that pulls from anywhere but strait out may unnecesarily stress the frame at said loci. If one is using an aftermarket bumper it could be assumed the framerails are better tied as the beefier bumper acts as another crossmember of sorts. note that the oe bumper mounts are poorly tied to the bumper itself laterally and thus the oe bumper does little to tie the framerails together-ideal for impacting civics but less so for rock punishing. This said, I think those using an oe bumper/recovery hoops while tugging may find benefit (or at leaste peace of mind) if they were to run a piece of 4" x 1/4" strap from the undersideside of one of the front framerails to the other. no welding needed. simply drill a couple holes at both ends of the strap and run your 2 hoop bolts through the hoop holes then through the strap and into the frame nuts. the front of frame is now tied together. overkill?-likely

 

[Beowulf]

For really big pulls I use a longer bridle to the OEM hoops as well that's slack unless something goes wrong when it will stop anything flying off very far.

Eric,

I think this is the best suggestion for anyone planning to use the factory loops for what is expected to be a hard pull and perhaps for any pull based on the one that we've seen that broke during a recovery.

A bridle made from a tree protector would be simple to rig at the same time the strap is being attached. You would use 1 D-shackle that is attached to the other recovery loop and the loop on the end of the tree protector would have the primary recovery strap passed through it. It might be better to use a shackle on each end of the tree protector. If the recovery loop were to break the bridle would keep the pieces retained.

-B-

 

[Beowulf]

I'm not sure how I missed this thread. I haven't been THAT busy at work lately. I'm replacing my front loops with FJ60 hooks. We got lucky when Safado's hoop broke loose.

I also missed this thread up to now.

DMC... The pic looks like the loop material failed; not the welds and not the bolts into the frame rails. Any knowledge of the history? Was the truck ever involved in a front end accident? What shape were the hoops in before the pull?

I don't use the factory loops since I removed them when the Slee front & rear bumpers went on but I do wheel with guys that have the loops and this has me thinking of the best way to rig the *other* end of the strap to avoid a similar incident.

-B-

 

[semlin]

the bridle idea is a very good one and I think I will adopt it. Another option is to bring a catcher's mitt and stand between your truck and the truck being recovered.

 

[dmc]

I also missed this thread up to now.

DMC... The pic looks like the loop material failed; not the welds and not the bolts into the frame rails. Any knowledge of the history? Was the truck ever involved in a front end accident? What shape were the hoops in before the pull?

I don't use the factory loops since I removed them when the Slee front & rear bumpers went on but I do wheel with guys that have the loops and this has me thinking of the best way to rig the *other* end of the strap to avoid a similar incident.

-B-

B

Not sure on the history of the vehicle that broke but having spent a lot of time spotting 80s in Moab and doing some wheeling myself I know those hoops like to hang up or smack on ledges. My guess is that is where they suffer the most abuse. Will the hooks be any stronger? I'm not sure but honestly the main gist of my change is my experience and the comments by Whatley in the ACT thread about hard pulls.
dmc

 

[Bluetribal]

I heard alot of stories about whether they were good enough or not so I made a couple of basic mods and put on proper recovery hooks.

If I was going to keep the original loops I was going to take them off and get a couple of extra welds on them for piece of mind.

First off you can see I SEARCHED!!!! WOOOHOOO
Couple Questions:
1. I really like these recovery hooks but the owner is in Australia so I was wondering where I could find these at in the states. I am going to buy my tow strap today and eventually want to add something like these.
2. A few people earlier in this thread mentiond they had towed people using the stock loops but I thought that you should not recover someone in reverse. Or is it that you should not pull in reverse if you are fully locked?

 

[IdahoDoug]

Those hooks are nice in that you can slip a strap on them, versus the closed loops that came from the factory on 80s, which require a bit of fiddling or a fastener. On the down side, they are more likely to hook on something like a ledge or log when backing off where the loops will glide on and off stuff.

Regarding pulling in reverse. When applying force in reverse, you're applying pressure to the back side of the gears in the diffy which is called the 'coast' side. The ramped coast side has the effect of trying to push the gears apart. They're fine for normal use but caution would be advised for a geared down truck, or an increased horsepower truck. Best would be to use a stretchy recovery strap designed to be hit by the assisting vehicle and using vehicle momentum to pull on the stuck truck rather than only torque. There's quite a few discussions here on this topic.

Personally, I like the closed factory loops as there is no open and weaker area - it's an excellent design. We've never really pinned down the failure of one that was known to be in good shape and properly secured.

DougM

 

[KliersLC]

The early mini trucks have that kind of hook. You might try a junkyard

 

[Beowulf]

First off you can see I SEARCHED!!!! WOOOHOOO
Couple Questions:
1. I really like these recovery hooks but the owner is in Australia so I was wondering where I could find these at in the states.

Those are all over the internet at 4wd shops.

You should have factory loops at all 4 corners so there is no need to pull in reverse if you don't want to.

-B-

 

[Doc]

Those hooks (new) can be found at any tractor supply company or Farm and Home store. Cheap, less than $5 IIRC.

 

[NexusD]

I agree with Doug, these are more than adequate for recovery. As an example of how tough they are, I happened upon a stuck 2002 Chevy Z-71 half ton 4x4, buried in mud up to the axles in a ditch. For effect, I locked my axles and drove 360 degrees around them to "survey the situation.";p Then I backed up behind them and jumped out and attached their 50' of log chain. Suddenly, Beavis and Butthead in the Chevy couldn't find the keys to the Z-71. So I asked them if they wanted me to go ahead and pull it out or leave them. They laughed and said, "Yea right." So fully locked in low I gave myself about 3' of bump room and hit that chain...and drug the Chevy out of its hole and up the embankment and onto the road shoulder...while it was turned off and in park. So they've always worked okay for me.

I x2 that too. I pulled a full size doge ram truck out a good size hole at SnT this year. He too was buried in wet sand up to his frame. 3 good bumps w/ me fully locked pulled him right out with no trouble.