Another way to correct caster than plates, bushings or bearings??? 80 series (1 Viewer)

[Nay]

Actually, at 1.7* of castor change per inch of lift, and running large tires like 37’s, aftermarket radius arms dialing in 10-12 degrees of castor would be great.

Castor plates for a 4” lift or radius arms for a 6” lift bring castor barely back into Toyota’s conservative spec of 2* which isn’t really enough for a lifted rig on larger tires.

3” x 1.7* = 5.1*

Assume you stared at +3*, you are now at -2.1*. A set of 4” castor plates correcting would be a wise choice. Anything over 4” then go for the after market radius arms to get to a more positive castor number like 6* to help drive the bigger tires. Or, move the tie rod to the front and do a cut and turn of the knuckles to dial in proper castor for a lifted rig sporting big rubber.

I have 5” lift with 4” castor plates and about .5* of positive castor. For the money, I’m thinking that a set of those Black Mamba drop boxes might be a great deal for getting back about 3* of castor.

Dropping your control arm mounts is great if you don’t have to back up. If you do have to back up, then you’ve created a a forward mount drop bracket that is worse than the rear lower control arm frame mount hangup points.

Since the low hanging frame is the 80’s Achilles heel, making it lower isn’t a very good idea, at least to the extent we are talking use of 37’s.

Aside from this, unless you are willing to have driveline vibes, caster is not an independent variable and has to follow driveshaft alignment. Yes, you can go part time, but unless you won’t ever drive at highway speeds in 4WD (a non-winter climate), pinion angle is going to rule over arbitrary caster modifications. This is the single most vexing issue in the 4x4 world that pins people to lower lifts.

A singular beauty of the 80 is that the stock broken back conversion to DC shaft allows proper caster and pinion angle on a 4” lift (by proper I mean it drives straight down the highway at 80 mph). This is also the reason that there is no reason to work so hard to stay lower on an 80 when the low frame needs all the help it can get.

Except that the rear driveshaft is really short for the wheelbase and loves to make noise.

Bummer.

 

[Nay]

I have a 3" lift not 6" & I do not need to correct 11 degrees or caster only like 5 degrees.

You actually just need a DC driveshaft and a zero degree u-joint operating angle on the axle end.

And then caster is what it is. There is no other correct way of doing it with AWD unless you have one of those special stock front driveshafts that mysteriously doesn’t care about u-joint phasing.

I believe thel landtank plates do roll forward a we bit but not near 1". 3.5” backspace 17x8.5” rim (including 1” spacers) Good to know. What is full extension of those 10" shocks including the Ubrakets? I doubt no more than 26" which is shorter thal OME Ls which would make sense with the no rubbing problem comment. I agree with the comment "spending money creating other lots of money problems"

The LT plates retain the stock wheelbase for the intended lift height IIRC. If correct, the shift is c squared for that lift height (a is the eye to eye radius arm length and b is the stated lift height for the bracket).

The shocks are Fox 2.0 10” travel 16” compressed/26” extended length. The eye adapters are required on both ends on the front and raise the lower mount and drop the upper mount approximately 1.25” each. This makes the effective extended length 27.25 front and rear (rear only has the upper adapter as the axle mount is already an eye, the front lower adapter is not adding to extended length, only compressing the shock).

These pics are for the rear, but the front is the same with the 4” Flexi.

This is static ride height. There is 5” of up travel and 5” down (same up front).

Here is just hitting the 2” lowered bumpstop with just a bit of travel left for big hits.

Here is stance with the big 37” Cooper STT Pro, rear LCA extended 3/8”.

Super easy on a 4” lift. And everybody makes that 10” travel eye to eye shock. Tune away at off the shelf prices.

 

[baldilocks]

Dropping your control arm mounts is great if you don’t have to back up. If you do have to back up, then you’ve created a a forward mount drop bracket that is worse than the rear lower control arm frame mount hangup points.

Since the low hanging frame is the 80’s Achilles heel, making it lower isn’t a very good idea, at least to the extent we are talking use of 37’s.

Aside from this, unless you are willing to have driveline vibes, caster is not an independent variable and has to follow driveshaft alignment. Yes, you can go part time, but unless you won’t ever drive at highway speeds in 4WD (a non-winter climate), pinion angle is going to rule over arbitrary caster modifications. This is the single most vexing issue in the 4x4 world that pins people to lower lifts.

A singular beauty of the 80 is that the stock broken back conversion to DC shaft allows proper caster and pinion angle on a 4” lift (by proper I mean it drives straight down the highway at 80 mph). This is also the reason that there is no reason to work so hard to stay lower on an 80 when the low frame needs all the help it can get.

Except that the rear driveshaft is really short for the wheelbase and loves to make noise.

Bummer.

Stock radius arms plus cut and turn and quite possibly relocating the tie rod to the front solves this issue for a guy who wants to stick with radius arms.

Even at 5” lift with Slee 4” castor plates, my front driveline and pinion are nicely aligned for the dc shaft I installed when I was running J springs with the same castor plates. But castor is sadly insufficient (.5) for making quick maneuvers without a high degree of pucker factor. However, somehow, it drives straight down the road and doesn’t really wander.

The drop boxes are low budget and the most correct way to put castor angle back to spec. I agree that this method leaves a bit to be desired in certain off road scenarios.

Low hanging frame? It seems like a normal body on frame design.

 

[GW Nugget]

Drive line vibration, what is that?

I have a 3" suspension lift (23" center of hub to bottom of flare not counting the 1" body lift). If you don't want to go through the pains of all the 4" lift trauma then don't breach the 3" threshold. (but this is a caster correction thread so I retract my previous statement to prevent derailment of my own thread).

 

[richardlillard1]

Just link it already.

 

[baldilocks]

Just link it already.

Linking it still won’t render the perfect pinion angle and best castor angle for a lifted rig on large tires. The knuckles must be adjusted independent of the housing to have the best of both worlds.

The fact is that most of us lifted more 3” choose a vibration free drive line over having the proper amount of castor because of the work involved with a cut and turn and the eventual high steer modification.

@GW Nugget hit the nail on the head when he suggested limiting suspension lift to 3”.

Opinions matter -

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Part time for the win

 

[baldilocks]

Dear Dr. Phil, part time, which my 80 now is in addition to DC shaft, only solves the pinion angle issue for low driveline rotational speeds. Deep snow and mud or simply driving to Tahoe during times when snow chains or 4x4 are required, mean higher driveline rpm.

In order to be completely free of vibrations and dial in 5* of castor, cutting and welding is needed. We settle for 2* castor, or less in my case, because the problem can be costly to fix.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Dear Dr. Phil, part time, which my 80 now is in addition to DC shaft, only solves the pinion angle issue for low driveline rotational speeds. Deep snow and mud or simply driving to Tahoe during times when snow chains or 4x4 are required, mean higher driveline rpm.

In order to be completely free of vibrations and dial in 5* of castor, cutting and welding is needed. We settle for 2* castor, or less in my case, because the problem can be costly to fix.

Works for me

 

[jcardona1]

Cut-n-turn is the right way. Everything else is a bandaid.

I have about 7° of caster which I achieved via the 3link. I didn't want too mess with cutting the knuckles so I went part-time 4x4 with the stock shaft to avoid issues. It gets serious grumbles when trying to go faster than 20mph.

 

[GW Nugget]

There is the bearing caster correction method.... but I don' know how they are in the strength department.

Caster Bearings
Slee Offroad 1* caster/camber bearings

Slee Offroad 3* Caster/Camber bearings

 

[Nay]

Drive line vibration, what is that?

I have a 3" suspension lift (23" center of hub to bottom of flare not counting the 1" body lift). If you don't want to go through the pains of all the 4" lift trauma then don't breach the 3" threshold. (but this is a caster correction thread so I retract my previous statement to prevent derailment of my own thread).

Yea, but if you arbitrarily throw a bunch of caster at it, watcha think is going to happen?

Pinion angle changes are not neutral at any suspension height.

4” just requires caster plates and a DC shaft, which increases caster due to the stock broken back config. It shouldn’t be traumatic, and it’s a lot cheaper than the five versions of OME that most people try.

Talk about trauma. There should be an OME support group forum here .

 

[Nay]

Low hanging frame? It seems like a normal body on frame design.

I said it wrong, it’s the elephant in the bathtub sitting on that frame with its ass hanging over the sides.

Although those damn frame LCA mounts are death on big ledge climbs, even with sliders for them, and once you get off those the big ass rear pumpkin is now sitting on that rock that’s always in the middle.

37’s are tiny. Maybe 42’a would be enough. On 6” wider one tons.

Anyway, dropping the frame mounts isn’t the best way to correct caster because anything that rotates the pinion has the exact same effect. They just keep your arms largely horizontal, but that’s really unnecessary for a long radius arm and it comes with a heavy clearance price in the rocks.

 

[lumbee1]

Another option:
Make your own front drop brackets and install factory bushings. Thanks to @fourtrax for the idea.
My alignment is perfect with 3* caster except for camber on the driver's side.

 

[baldilocks]

I said it wrong, it’s the elephant in the bathtub sitting on that frame with its ass hanging over the sides.

Although those damn frame LCA mounts are death on big ledge climbs, even with sliders for them, and once you get off those the big ass rear pumpkin is now sitting on that rock that’s always in the middle.

37’s are tiny. Maybe 42’a would be enough. On 6” wider one tons.

Anyway, dropping the frame mounts isn’t the best way to correct caster because anything that rotates the pinion has the exact same effect. They just keep your arms largely horizontal, but that’s really unnecessary for a long radius arm and it comes with a heavy clearance price in the rocks.

Are you calling stock radius arms "long"? I guess they are longer than stock jeep arms........ There would be no problem whatsoever if we were not so apprehensive about cutting and turning the knuckle balls. Post #50 tells the tale of how, even with a completely adjustable three link front set up, we are left choosing between optimal castor angle and desired pinion angle when we remain unwilling to cut, turn, and re-weld the knuckle balls. Bushings, plates, and even high dollar aftermarket radius arms are just bandaids that, from what I have seen and experienced, cater to pinion angle while offering us barely acceptable castor angle for a lifted rig on much larger than stock tires.

 

[gofast]

Sure, but if you're going the cut and turn route, you need @Pin_Head fuzzy feeling of ethical propriety, and be aware that tie rods will clash with radius arms before you fix caster at 4"of lift, unless tie rod is shifted to the front. Then you loose correct Ackerman steering geometry.
BTDT with cut and turn, and I think custom radius arms are a far better solution to maintain geometry.

4" lift opens a whole can of worms in the front end. Any solution is going to involve significant compromises in either handling, $$$, or driveline set-up.View attachment 1720119
2" lifted 105, lockers, and occasional wincing has taken me everywhere a 4" lifted 80 did

Yup sooooo echo this comment. Just buy the slee arms which I'm running with my four inch. It moves the axle froward Slee will tell you the number - I can't recall. Solved all my castor problems. Read about it here - post #5

Who has a 4 inch lift?

 

[baldilocks]

Yup sooooo echo this comment. Just buy the slee arms which I'm running with my four inch. It moves the axle froward Slee will tell you the number - I can't recall. Solved all my castor problems. Read about it here - post #5

Who has a 4 inch lift?

And what of your pinion angle? Got pics?

 

[gofast]

And what of your pinion angle? Got pics?

No pics and I'm travelling right now so can't take any. When I did my alignment and caster sweep I'm at 3.3 and 3.4 so within the recommended specs. Truck isn't a constant wanderer. I can relax on long trips

 

[baldilocks]

No pics and I'm travelling right now so can't take any. When I did my alignment and caster sweep I'm at 3.3 and 3.4 so within the recommended specs. Truck isn't a constant wanderer. I can relax on long trips

Is your 80 concerted to part time? Are you saying that you have no front driveline vibes? This would be significant.

 

[gofast]

Is your 80 covertednto part time? Are you saying that you have no front driveline vibes? This would be significant.

Yes part time and I have no vibes up to about 50mph if I leave the hubs locked