Another way to correct caster than plates, bushings or bearings??? 80 series (2 Viewers)

[GW Nugget]

Other resourced link: Caster Correction for a 2.5" Lift

I have been in several discussions with fellow 80 series owner about caster correction, more freedom of flex, control arm to tie rod bind issues while running longer shocks past 26.5" & 37s. Running 37" tyres with wider offset wheel creates the need to move axle forward to relieve firewall tire contact.

I have been running with the 2" MAF caster drop brackets & been very happy with them. I gained 2 inches more drop with them better turning manners, but now looking to move the control arm forward 1" so I can run a wider stance wheel later.

My question is how would one move the frame side rear control bolt down 2" & forward 1"???

I have a few ideas that I would like to thrash around with you all...

One way is to weld some flat plate onto the stock bracket. (I believe @Apounder did this)
drop brackets for caster correction and moves wheel forward

Or torch off stock bracket & re-weld forward 1" then bolt MAF brackets back on.

Or find some square tube like brackets from Ruff Stuff that will work weld them on.

Another way is modify my current stock frame mount by moving it forward 1" via the AutocCaft drill hole plates. Then bolting the MAF brackets back in the new 1" forward hole.

 

[landcrshr]

What about installing both CC bushings with the offset towards the front? That is, if you have another means of correcting caster. Not sure if that would give you a whole inch though. Just a thought.

 

[mudgudgeon]

What about installing both CC bushings with the offset towards the front? That is, if you have another means of correcting caster. Not sure if that would give you a whole inch though. Just a thought.

you'd gain 1/4 at most, and have compromised bushing life and flex

 

[mudgudgeon]

assuming the 2nd pick is the MAF drop bracket?

Why not re-drill it so it bolts 1" forward through the original radius arm bolt on the frame, and extend the rear tongue of the MAF bracket so it still bolts to the frame in the same spot.



I don't think the Autocraft plates give you anywhere near on inch either, I think they give you a 1/2 shift?

 

[I Lean]

Why not re-drill it so it bolts 1" forward through the original radius arm bolt on the frame, and extend the rear tongue of the MAF bracket so it still bolts to the frame in the same spot.

That's the way I'd try it. The tube welded through the MAF bracket might make that difficult...but 1" offset might be enough to clear that tube, and still have room for a new tube? Depends on how thick their tube is.

Another option, although more labor-intensive, would be to make new radius arms.

 

[ajax1]

Seems like a lot of work for nothing gained, panhard and steering links will be off now, drive shaft will have less slip. I run 9 inch rim and have no issues.

 

[baldilocks]

Seems like there is no solution at this time that doesn’t require cutting and welding. As for moving the axle forward, a little math will give you the exact distance that you need to move the front axle forward to its factory location post lift. I wouldn’t go farther forward than that. If you need more clearance for wheel and tire, sheet metal can be cut.

 

[Nay]

I don’t know why you’d need to move the axle forward. I run stock arms with LT caster plates and have 3.5” backspace using a 17x8.5” rim (including 1” spacers).

I don’t have any contact issues up front or any handing issues. No tierod clearance issues. No flex issues that show up before frame mount clearance issues. Hell, I still have the original brake lines.

Peeps spend lots of money creating other lots of money problems, too long shocks usually leading the way.

It’s entirely unnecessary.

 

[Dragos80]

Peeps spend lots of money creating other lots of money problems, too long shocks usually leading the way.

It’s entirely unnecessary.

Interesting remark.

So, for a 3-4" lift you think an 11" travel shock is not a good idea? Should be less than that?

 

[Dragos80]

I have been in several discussions with fellow 80 series owner about caster correction, more freedom of flex, control arm to tie rod bind issues while running longer shocks past 26.5" & 37s. Running 37" tyres with wider offset wheel creates the need to move axle forward to relieve firewall tire contact.

I have been running with the 2" MAF caster drop brackets & been very happy with them. I gained 2 inches more drop with them better turning manners, but now looking to move the control arm forward 1" so I can run a wider stance wheel later.

My question is how would one move the frame side rear control bolt down 2" & forward 1"???

I have a few ideas that I would like to thrash around with you all...

If one start with no MAF brackets:
One way is to weld some flat plate onto the stock bracket. (I believe @Apounder did this)

Or torch off stock bracket & re-weld forward 1" then bolt MAF brackets back on.

Or find some square tube like brackets from Ruff Stuff that will work weld them on.

Another way is modify my current stock frame mount by moving it forward 1" via the AutocCaft drill hole plates. Then bolting the MAF brackets back in the new 1" forward hole.
View attachment 1719172

View attachment 1719170

View attachment 1719171

How about those aftermarket arms for 6" lift. They are longer and might put you in that spot where you want to be. Of course the cost is something har to swallow.

 

[baldilocks]

I don’t know why you’d need to move the axle forward. I run stock arms with LT caster plates and have 3.5” backspace using a 17x8.5” rim (including 1” spacers).

I don’t have any contact issues up front or any handing issues. No tierod clearance issues. No flex issues that show up before frame mount clearance issues. Hell, I still have the original brake lines.

Peeps spend lots of money creating other lots of money problems, too long shocks usually leading the way.

It’s entirely unnecessary.

Are you still running a 10” shock with the longer Flexi coil springs???

 

[baldilocks]

How about those aftermarket arms for 6" lift. They are longer and might put you in that spot where you want to be. Of course the cost is something har to swallow.

I’m creeping ever closer to being able to swallow that pill. Slee plates and 5” lift leaves me with +.5* castor.

 

[Dragos80]

Maybe Gary will consider that route and sell me his MAF brackets.

 

[LINUS]

Why with all the costs of keeping radius arms are you not thinking 3 link at this point?

Are you doing your own welding or are you buying welds?
(Becomes an issue I’d think)

Is all this just about being able to theoretically return it to stock at some point?

 

[baldilocks]

Maybe Gary will consider that route and sell me his MAF brackets.

Hahaha.... I have a feeling that won’t happen... you had to be there

 

[synapse]

Black Mamba weld in drop brackets. Here's a pic of mine installed. Drops the arm 2" and moves it forward 12mm. Designed for 3-4" lifts.

 

[LINUS]

OK.......so what am I missing?

If you want to push the axle 1” & make the castor right for the lift - whay aren’t you just making plates to weld to the axle shell / frame mounts or else going 3-link for trail 80’s?

I get I’m simple, but I also own some decent metal-mod equipment, so maybe I’m just “out of touch” here. IDK.

 

[GW Nugget]

Well thank you gentlemen for the comments.
I wanted to start this thread not just for me, but it turned out that way.
For me I can weld but have no hook ups were I rent a house... bummer, so I am a bolt on guy for now.
I can pull a buddy card for a small welding job as this from a few friends though.
The Auto craft weld-in plate seems the best to move 1" forward when needed, if needed down the road. (no welding on frame)
I can then re-bolt on the MAF bracket in after extending the tail portion of the bracket.

As for a 3Link I have a idea from Bogerwelz to add a 3rd link to the pumpkin & remove 2 aft bolts from the front control arms.

assuming the 2nd pick is the MAF drop bracket?

Why not re-drill it so it bolts 1" forward through the original radius arm bolt on the frame, and extend the rear tongue of the MAF bracket so it still bolts to the frame in the same spot. I don't think the Autocraft plates give you anywhere near on inch either, I think they give you a 1/2 shift?

This sounds to be the best option.

Black Mamba weld in drop brackets. Here's a pic of mine installed. Drops the arm 2" and moves it forward 12mm. Designed for 3-4" lifts. View attachment 1719738

Nice, didn't know about these.

How about those aftermarket arms for 6" lift. They are longer and might put you in that spot where you want to be. Of course the cost is something hard to swallow.

I have a 3" lift not 6" & I do not need to correct 11 degrees or caster only like 5 degrees.

I don’t know why you’d need to move the axle forward. I run stock arms with LT caster plates and have 3.5” backspace using a 17x8.5” rim (including 1” spacers).
I don’t have any contact issues up front or any handing issues. No tierod clearance issues. No flex issues that show up before frame mount clearance issues. Hell, I still have the original brake lines.
Peeps spend lots of money creating other lots of money problems, too long shocks usually leading the way.
It’s entirely unnecessary.

I believe thel landtank plates do roll forward a we bit but not near 1".
3.5” backspace 17x8.5” rim (including 1” spacers) Good to know.
What is full extension of those 10" shocks including the Ubrakets? I doubt no more than 26" which is shorter thal OME Ls which would make sense with the no rubbing problem comment.
I agree with the comment "spending money creating other lots of money problems"

 

[baldilocks]

Actually, at 1.7* of castor change per inch of lift, and running large tires like 37’s, aftermarket radius arms dialing in 10-12 degrees of castor would be great.

Castor plates for a 4” lift or radius arms for a 6” lift bring castor barely back into Toyota’s conservative spec of 2* which isn’t really enough for a lifted rig on larger tires.

3” x 1.7* = 5.1*

Assume you stared at +3*, you are now at -2.1*. A set of 4” castor plates correcting would be a wise choice. Anything over 4” then go for the after market radius arms to get to a more positive castor number like 6* to help drive the bigger tires. Or, move the tie rod to the front and do a cut and turn of the knuckles to dial in proper castor for a lifted rig sporting big rubber.

I have 5” lift with 4” castor plates and about .5* of positive castor. For the money, I’m thinking that a set of those Black Mamba drop boxes might be a great deal for getting back about 3* of castor.

 

[GW Nugget]

For historical purpose on caster.
Caster Correction for a 2.5" Lift
@Pin_Head nailed it.

Here is the link to those Black Mamba weld on brackets.
80/100 Series Weld In Drop Boxes - Live Axle Models - Black Mamba Racing
Thanks @baldilocks

@Apounder do you have any picture of you moded frame side control arm mounts before you torched them off for the 3Link? I believe they were 2" down & zero forward?