Another U joint question. Options? (1 Viewer)

[Tools R Us]

... I would not say that toyota u joints > *.spicer. ...

Depends, for strength, Spicer makes some big joints, so can be stronger. Same size, the factory joint is no slouch. For long term durability, I prefer the interior triple lip seal of the factory joint, over the outer band type "seal" on most others. They do a great job at keeping grease in and debris out, significantly better than anything else I have tried, likely contributes to the long life that they are well proven to have.

"Jess" can say whatever, don't care. Some of us have beaten them and others long term, so draw from that experience. If a factory type joint is correct size/strength/geometry for the application, it is my first choice.

 

[greentruck]

It got mentioned earlier, but check those yokes. We're easy on the stock driveline around here, but when we bought the truck it had a vibration that seemed like a bad U-joint. Turned out to be a yoke on the front DS that was tweaked, so who know what the previous owner was up to with that, given the rest of the truck seemed like it had never been offroad.

The yoke did not surprise me, as I used to work in a heavy truck garage and we did our fair share of yokes, take the whole mess to a good driveline shop and let them work their magic.

If you are having repeated U-joint failures and the DS is adequate in terms of angles, etc for your truck's set-up, then consider it may be that the yoke is at the root of the problem if nothing has been done about it up to that point in analysis and diagnosis.

 

[J Mack]

Directed to the OP:



No, what he's stating is that

1) You claimed the U-Joints failed. .

You are correct, @nukegoat is having a hard time just reading the words I typed and not adding his perceived interpretation of exactly what I typed. At no point have I claimed the U-joints exploded.

It appears it failed due to not being properly in-phase or aligned.

Don’t assume you know anything about what happened here, if you truly would like to know specifics shoot me a PM and I am happy to chat with you, none of this is helpful to the OP.

2) Did your U-Joints fail AS A RESULT of the other failure?

All of the destruction in that incident was a result of traction and toque, the Spicer rep and drive line shop felt the parts shouldn’t have yielded and made it right, the gear manufacture also made it right and sent me another set of gears.

New gears same manufacture and new drive shaft made with Toyota slip yoke and Matsuba U-joints still going strong for 25000 miles. Replacement spare drive shaft with Spicer parts still sitting on the shelf.

I just think the toyota fanboyism for u joints is ridiculous.

Agree, they make the Spicer fanboys look good but in reality fanboys on every side are the same.

Everyone believes the folklore they heard on pirate4x4 about how "Jess" from high angle driveline says toyota u joints are stronger than 1350s or something but with no science or rationale.

Can you share some of your Spicer science with us or are you just a fanboy and just keep telling us they’re good?

Bingo - I mean, you shear off the pinion and twist the driveshaft splines and claim "and, you know, I couldn't re-use the u-joints." I don't think you can just say that the u-joints were garbage.

We are kind of going around in circles here, you said

I seriously doubt your rig is blowing up spicer driveshaft u joints.

And I replied,

Technically you are correct I have not “blown up spicer driveshaft u joints” but I have twisted a new Spicer drive shaft spline and damaged the Spicer U-joint to the point it was no longer usable.

So I’ll make you the same offer, if you truly care and would like to debate the details of what actually happened shoot me a PM and I’m happy to chat about it with you and we can let the OP get back to finding U-joints for his Toyota.

Well, I'm the OP and didn't write that post, but I expected opinions/preferences/applications to be all over the board. Sooo, back to the original question, just looking for suggestions and whats been successful for other MUD users. Thanks.

I apologize for the derailment of your post.

I will add this then I’m out. I was told beforehand by Kurt @cruiseroutfit and Erik @ginericLC both Toyota experts I respect to use OEM or equivalent drive line parts when I was building my Cruiser, they both told me that the aftermarket U-joints get loose and cause drive line vibration, this is exactly my experience. My drive line shop told me he would only warrantee the new drive lines if I used all new Spicer parts because he has had the best luck with them or I would have followed their advice from the beginning.

FWIW I only use Spicer joints in my 4400 car drive shafts and never had an issue, that car gets way more abuse than my cruiser.
Good luck!

 

[Tools R Us]

I have inspected and greased them, and what came out when I greased was not pretty.

If they haven't been serviced in a while, dirty grease is expected, doesn't necessarily point to a bad joint. Did any of them have significant play? If not there is likely nothing wrong with them. Failure is gradual, play, then big play, eventual failure. If you are significantly overloading them, going to break them, new joints are not going to change that.

... The clunk partially stopped for the first few drives, over a weekend running trails, but then started back again. ...

Shifting clunk is most often dry/worn splines. The best plan is to drop the shaft, note/mark position, pull the spline apart, clean out the old grease, check for spline wear, then grease with moly grease. The spline cavity needs to have air space to move, so doing it this way is best, then just 5 or 6 pumps with the grease gun at each oil change to maintain. When off allows the best evaluation of the joints, we only replace ones that have significant play or aftermarket type joints. If there are worn splines, replacing the joints will do no good, the clunk will be back and need the whole shaft replaced.

 

[BILT4ME]

You are correct, @nukegoat is having a hard time just reading the words I typed and not adding his perceived interpretation of exactly what I typed. At no point have I claimed the U-joints exploded.





Don’t assume you know anything about what happened here, if you truly would like to know specifics shoot me a PM and I am happy to chat with you, none of this is helpful to the OP.





All of the destruction in that incident was a result of traction and toque, the Spicer rep and drive line shop felt the parts shouldn’t have yielded and made it right, the gear manufacture also made it right and sent me another set of gears.

New gears same manufacture and new drive shaft made with Toyota slip yoke and Matsuba U-joints still going strong for 25000 miles. Replacement spare drive shaft with Spicer parts still sitting on the shelf.





Agree, they make the Spicer fanboys look good but in reality fanboys on every side are the same.





Can you share some of your Spicer science with us or are you just a fanboy and just keep telling us they’re good?



We are kind of going around in circles here, you said



And I replied,



So I’ll make you the same offer, if you truly care and would like to debate the details of what actually happened shoot me a PM and I’m happy to chat about it with you and we can let the OP get back to finding U-joints for his Toyota.





I apologize for the derailment of your post.

I will add this then I’m out. I was told beforehand by Kurt @cruiseroutfit and Erik @ginericLC both Toyota experts I respect to use OEM or equivalent drive line parts when I was building my Cruiser, they both told me that the aftermarket U-joints get loose and cause drive line vibration, this is exactly my experience. My drive line shop told me he would only warrantee the new drive lines if I used all new Spicer parts because he has had the best luck with them or I would have followed their advice from the beginning.

FWIW I only use Spicer joints in my 4400 car drive shafts and never had an issue, that car gets way more abuse than my cruiser.
Good luck!

No need from my perspective.

Thank you for the reply. I'm not a Spicer of Toyota or ? fanboy. I'm looking at it from the perspective of how it was called out as failure.
I THINK, in terms of how it was stated was "Spicer Parts", which ACTUALLY meant EVERYTHING and not just the u-joints (which makes sense as you stated for the warranty issue) and if the yoke was a Spicer part, it failed.

Anyway, good luck! Hope it was sorted out.

BTW, separate from that issue, looking for ACTUAL Toyota U-Joints, when I search for them (P/N 04371-60210) they come up as discontinued. Am I missing something or has the P/N been superceded?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Shifting clunk is most often dry/worn splines. The best plan is to drop the shaft, note/mark position, pull the spline apart, clean out the old grease, check for spline wear, then grease with moly grease. The spline cavity needs to have air space to move, so doing it this way is best, then just 5 or 6 pumps with the grease gun at each oil change to maintain. When off allows the best evaluation of the joints, we only replace ones that have significant play or aftermarket type joints. If there are worn splines, replacing the joints will do no good, the clunk will be back and need the whole shaft replaced.

Agree. But it is a pain, (not wading into the OEM vs Spicer debate) my FJ40s front driveshaft has a *ahem* Spicer slip joint. The grease nipple to lube it is mid slip joint. This seems like a far better way to grease the splines than the Toyota method which virtually assures that over time, the slip joint will be overfilled with grease. I also know I've had at least 1 shaft plug blow out because it was overfilled with grease.

 

[Tools R Us]

Agree. But it is a pain, (not wading into the OEM vs Spicer debate) my FJ40s front driveshaft has a *ahem* Spicer slip joint. The grease nipple to lube it is mid slip joint. This seems like a far better way to grease the splines than the Toyota method which virtually assures that over time, the slip joint will be overfilled with grease. I also know I've had at least 1 shaft plug blow out because it was overfilled with grease.

Have seen Toyota shafts modified that way, other than making the zerk much easier to break, don't see the point? Overzealous greasing can still pack the air cavity, only really greases one side of the splines, etc. In any case, a few times in the shaft life, it's good to inspect and manually grease. Once you understand how they work, properly greasing them isn't a big deal, the zerk in the stock location works fine.

 

[ginericLC]

In general Spicer joints are very high quality joints. And I use them in my Land Cruisers that have Spicer yokes and have never had an issue. If you use Spicer joints in a Toyota yoke they will loosen and go bad. This is my personal experience and I've witnessed it over and over again wheeling with lots of Cruisers (I bet more than 30 times over the last 20 years or so). The Spicers loosen up and then pop out. Cruiser Outfitters, and I'm sure a lot of other venders too, sells OEM ujoints. I haven't purchased any within the last 5 years ago but at that time the dealer ordered them in for me.

I agree that Toyota slip joints are easy to over grease and this can cause major issues not only with u-joints but even with putting so much pressure on the back of the transfer case that they break the back half of the case.

Stuff breaks no matter what though. The best thing you can do is buy the best stuff you can afford and hope for a little bit of luck.

 

[TerraNerva]

Thanks for the input and help gents, and cheers to MUD. I'll drop the shafts, clean/inspect/grease splines, check joints while out and go from there.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I agree with tools, and built4me suggestions.

I've used a few different aftermarket u-joints, including Spicer.
I've had joints flog out in months of normal driving (cheap s***).
The OEM joints are quality in every way. The machining, fitment, seal design all are superior to aftermarket stuff I have used.

I've found I haven't been confident that aftermarket joints are able to be successfully re greased in the vehicle. A pump with the grease gun usually results in a seal blowing open, and all the clean grease spewing out the side of that seal, whereas OEM joints, grease penetrates the joint and you can push dirty grease out of all 4 sections of the joint

I like working on my rigs, but swapping out inferior parts due to failure sh ts me to tears

My choice from what is really available to me here is OEM first, Spicer if more convenient. I don't think Moog, Matsubo are available where I am.

I think, unless u joints are completely shot, a driveline chunk will generally be caused by something else. Pinion backlash, worn slip yolk, worn birf/drive flange splines.

 

[OGBeno]

BTW, separate from that issue, looking for ACTUAL Toyota U-Joints, when I search for them (P/N 04371-60210) they come up as discontinued. Am I missing something or has the P/N been superceded?

Talk to a real human parts professional and stop relying on bullsheeeeit internet information.

04371-60070: Rronts
04371-60210: Rears

Both readily available.

 

[BILT4ME]

Talk to a real human parts professional and stop relying on bullsheeeeit internet information.

04371-60070: Rronts
04371-60210: Rears

Both readily available.

Well, considering the fact that these "people" are rarely open when I'm NOT at work, I need to rely on the WWW.

As you don't want customers with piddly things I search for, I choose to NOT bother you trying to extract knowledge without paying you for it.

That being said, I thank you for posting the part numbers for front and rear and advising availability. I really do appreciate it!

Now, I will go randomly find a robot to purchase these from so they can be delivered directly to my doorstep while I am slaving away elsewhere.

 

[flintknapper]

As long as they get some grease, factory type joints last very longtime. .

^^^^^^ They certainly do. I have 298K on the original U-Joints on my Cruiser and they are still reasonably tight, don't vibrate. IF/When I need to replace them...it will be with OEM.

 

[surfpig]

Okie dokie then.



I'd say, spend the little extra money on OEM. Properly maintained, they'll go hundreds of thousands of miles. I bought AutoZone ujoints for my ex-FJ55 steering shaft (555 brand, Corolla driveshaft ujoints). I imagine they'll last another 300000 miles...

Pennywise, pound foolish.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The Matsuba joints are a fantastic Japanese made joint. They have propelled trucks around the world, finished the Baja 1000, competed in Ultra 4, KOH, etc. We've sold thousands with fantastic results.

And, we stock the OEM Toyota joints @ CruiserOutfitters too. Let us know if we can help!

 

[Mandrake]

I have no problems with the Moog joints in my '91, but they each get what, 30 HP?

 

[Irish Reiver]

Is it good practice to have your driveshafts rebalenced after replacing the U-joints or is that a bit over the top?

 

[Mandrake]

I never have; that'd kinda be like rebalancing your tires every time you aired back up.

*edit- But what I personally do that some may say is unnecessary is I mark the slip joints relationship to the shaft, then pull it apart to clean all the old grease out and check the splines for wear. It's kinda one of those things you can only do with the shaft out and since it's out to do the joints, you might as well.