Absolute Best Winter Tire For The 80

[bigreen505]

Hi all, I just stumbled across this thread in a search and it is the best real world snow tire test I have seen. The author compared the new Nokian LT, Cooper M&S and Blizzak W965 and they scored in that order, though there were some significant caveats based on driving conditions.

Also, I saw another thread on mud that someone in Colorado bought Blizzaks because he couldn't find Nokian's. Meadow Creek tire (Denver and Frisco) carries is an importer for Nokian and any of the local shops get their tires from them. However, IME, Meadow Creek's pricing leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[83bj60]

The Nokians were easy to find for me, the local Kal tyre I deal with had them in stock when I called. If memory serves the total came to around $1300 for 5 tyres, studding, M&B and a take off stock GMC Al rim for the spare.

Just for giggles my "guy" gave me a price of $840 all in for 4 Blizzak W965 LT235/85R16 when I called today.

Let us know how they work, I am going to be interested in how many miles you get out of the "winter" compound.

I was quoted $220 each that's $880 plus our famous GST and PST that come up to approx. 15%, and that's not counting installation and balancing...

In the US I paid $660 + $80 installed, balanced, including taxes (where applicable, hehe... And that includes unmounting my old tires and getting rid of them ($5 per tire). $1058 versus $740 is a HUGE savings for me.

I've only driven 2 miles on them so nothing to report yet, except that the tread is quite deep and that the tire seems to be perfectly matched to the OEM Toyota 16" steel rims.

In terms of looks, it doesn't look as beefy as the old 285/75R16s, but they still look great, and certainly not too skinny. Skinny? NOT! 200/100R16 , now that would be skinny

Also you should not discredit that tire, as by construction the W965 is a much tougher tire than the DM-Z3 so I believe I have found a happy medium. It was really the result of a very long thought process, jason. I will certainly comment on them on my way back Monday, we expect to meet some snow coming back up to Canada.

 

[83bj60]

As promised here are my first impressions on the Blizzak W965 LT235/85R16 tires I just installed on the HDJ81 Landcruiser on Toyota OEM 16" Steel Rims. This is a "tall and skinny" tire in LT construction, load range E.

It was chosen as a compromise between the softnesss of the traditionnal Blizzak DM-Z3 and the usual toughness and hardness of traditional LT tires. So far, it seems that my assumptions were correct. This is not a 'sticky like glue' tire with a super soft rubber compound, and it is definiteley not 'soft and wiggly' like the regular Blizzak is often characterized to be. Nor is it hard and rigid like a traditional LT tire.

My cost in Québec would have been about $1100 installed after taxes. It cost me about $740 installed after taxes in the US. Really, a no brainer. I was pleasantly surprised with the installtion at the shop in Maine. The installer at the Sanford, ME VIP Auto Parts hand torqued the wheel nuts. No one here does that, they use an air gun with a color coded socket extension. Keep in mind that if you live in Canada and buy in the US, the road hazard plan they sell you for extra is worthless (no coverage in Canada).

Driving: In general, this is a good tire. However, I did not see a huge difference so far between that tire and the Nokian Hakka studded tires I used last winter. To those of you who believe Blizzaks are super sticky, some may well be but this tire is definitely a different beast. On fresh heavy snow exceeding 6 inches, traction is Ok but far from impressive. On lesser accumulation it works really well though. It cuts through 2 inches of wet slush as if there was nothing and on hardened snow it grips very well.

Although the tread compound definitely feels harder than that on the passenger car Blizzak (DM-Z3) (I was able to make it screech doing a sharp stop on wet pavement), its construction seems to be very balanced as it feels very sturdy yet is visibly pliable and appears to conform very well to road surface imperfections. Yet, the sidewalls are not soft. This was a pleasant surprise. On the highway, this tire has an excellent sturdy feel to it. I have been able to put my shocks in normal mode, have excellent cushioning without sacrificing control like I would with the old Dueler 285/75R16s. So in terms of construction, this tire feels like it's ideally suited to the LC.

On 6 inches of fresh partially churned snow at -5C its performance was not as impressivbe. Although I had decent conttrol, I expected better. This tire keeps control longer than the old 235/75R15 Nokians in those conditions but looses it more suddenly when it does. In that respect it is not as civilized. When you go beyond its adherence, it starts to slide rather abruptly. The Hakka was more gradual in the same driving conditions.

On hardened snow of the kind we have after the plows have passed through, this tire excells. It seems to hug the road better than the Hakka and probably just as good as on summer gravel. Uncanny! Braking hard is possible with good control, but making a sudden stop does induce some minor sliding. Well, what do you expect! In general, behaviour in those conditions, which are the most common we have here, is excellent and I can foresee that this tire should do very well in those conditions.

I have yet to experience driving on ice, especially wet ice.

I will post more and correct these first impressions as my experience with this tire grows.

Hope it helps,

Chris

 

[83bj60]

The Nokians were easy to find for me, the local Kal tyre I deal with had them in stock when I called. If memory serves the total came to around $1300 for 5 tyres, studding, M&B and a take off stock GMC Al rim for the spare.

Just for giggles my "guy" gave me a price of $840 all in for 4 Blizzak W965 LT235/85R16 when I called today.

Good to know, I was quoted $220 each, so $880 for four. But we have provincial tax on top of federal tax so add $15%...

Let us know how they work, I am going to be interested in how many miles you get out of the "winter" compound.

Jason, the rubber on the tread of that tire does feel different from that on the DM-Z3 that my friend Pierre was driving with last winter. It feels more rubbery and less spongy. I cannot say for sure, but I believe the rubber compound is different and probably tweaked to handle the greater loads of a light truck. Also the tread is deeper and a bit 'gappier' than that on the DM-Z3.

See my previous post for my first impressions. That winter tire is definitely very good and although there are subtle differences with the Nokian, they are not huge. The stickyness of the Blizzak is IMO overstated, at least as far as the W965 goes. I'll post more as my experience with that tire grows.

 

[1shot1kill]

38 Toyos with chains! The other pics is from our neighborhood where we have a very steep hill. Unfortunately, an 80 and several other 4x4s did not manage to make it down or up. It is the ice that got them. My LC with chains in the front has no issues negotiating this hill. In fact, I stopped took a couple of pics and got back in and drove up the hill and into town.

 

[83bj60]

Chains are unbeatable, I admit... But installing them is a pain and their use is extremely limited in most areas...

How much time would it take you to install them if you had to work in the snow? In my case, I see the kind of deep snow that requires chains only once or so per winter and only for about 3km. Most other times and on most other roads excellent winter tires suffice.

I got some chains once for a small car I used to have, Used them maybe twice, they rusted on their racks in the basement.

 

[1shot1kill]

We don't get much snow here, but when we do it sticks around and becomes ice at this higher elevation. It takes me about 10 minutes to put them on in the snow. I spary WD40 on them after each snow season and put them away.

I have never used chains going through our passes here in Oregon. My Toyos are sipped and that made a huge difference.

 

[83bj60]

I agree that the Toyos are tops in quality, and are very durable. My friend Pierre who has tried Michelins, Blizzaks and Toyos was delighted with his Blizzaks (DM-Z3) but as most found out, they only lasted 30,000 km, which is what he does in one winter. He says the Toyos are better in snow (Observe G03 IIRC?), the Blizzaks better on ice. As a matter of fact, he put his old Toyos back on this winter and although they were used one winter (30,000 km), they are in his terms 'still acceptable').

Also in deep snow anyone with deep lugs will be at an advantage, in my experience. And if that snow lies on top of hardened snow and ice, studded tires will probbaly have a slight advantage.

I have driven this morning in light fresh greasy snow and grip with the W965s is acceptable. Definitely not revolutionary, but I am very demanding in terms of tires. I was the first one to use studded tires in my family way back when it was considered a thing farmers did, while everyone else found it normal to stay home or stuck in the snow in big snow storms.

Driving with the all wheel drive 80 is obviously a pleasure that previous models don't offer. The control is definitely excellent, and it is easy to leave everyone behind with the Blizzaks. But so far I have found that in general they are not markedly better than the studded Hakkas. There is an intersection at the bottom of a long hill that is chronically icy and braking at that intersection is invariably iffy. Two years ago I sailed right through on my studded hakkas there, and this morning I tested it again and although I did not sail right through, I did slip.

So I would say that a good grippy winter tire is a definite must for yourself, but it does not guarantee perfect grip at usual speeds (duh!) and you will still have to contend with drivers that have no grip at all and are susceptible to plow right through into you.

It would be interesting to test the difference between the 235/85R16 in W965 form and the 265/75 R16 in DM-Z3 form...

 

[1shot1kill]

I just got back from Madras. It was snowing from the Warm Springs area all the way down to Sandy. It was coming down heavy at Government Camp. The Toyos did great!

 

[83bj60]

Well I'm not very happy with the W965 Blizzaks. We've had a lot of fine snow here and frankly, I prefered the studded Hakkapeliittas for traction. The Blizzaks W965 would truly benefit from some studs!!!

On the road with little snow they have good grip and good braking traction so that is great but on soft churned snow they aren't great. I got stuck in my driveway, high centered on the snowbank in front of the truck, so no, I'm not impressed.

That being said I do seem to get better traction than anyone else on the road, but I would say the reputation of the Blizzak, as far as the W965 are concerned, is vastly overstated. Maybe I should have stayed with the DM-Z3 after all

Verdict so far (two weeks), much ado about nothing. My old Hakkas could do at least as good a job as these tires.

 

[turbocruiser]

Well I'm not very happy with the W965 Blizzaks. We've had a lot of fine snow here and frankly, I prefered the studded Hakkapeliittas for traction. The Blizzaks W965 would truly benefit from some studs!!!

On the road with little snow they have good grip and good braking traction so that is great but on soft churned snow they aren't great. I got stuck in my driveway, high centered on the snowbank in front of the truck, so no, I'm not impressed.

That being said I do seem to get better traction than anyone else on the road, but I would say the reputation of the Blizzak, as far as the W965 are concerned, is vastly overstated. Maybe I should have stayed with the DM-Z3 after all

Verdict so far (two weeks), much ado about nothing. My old Hakkas could do at least as good a job as these tires.

Just a suggestion but doesn't Bridgestone still have that thirty day drive policy where you are allowed to return them if unsatisfied. I think that the catch is you gotta get another Bridgestone tire but maybe you could swap to the DMZ3's if you hurry??? Just a suggestion.

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I've done this before on STREET tires and they worked well for me in very deep snow as well as ice

 

[Nay]

Well I'm not very happy with the W965 Blizzaks. We've had a lot of fine snow here and frankly, I prefered the studded Hakkapeliittas for traction. The Blizzaks W965 would truly benefit from some studs!!!

On the road with little snow they have good grip and good braking traction so that is great but on soft churned snow they aren't great. I got stuck in my driveway, high centered on the snowbank in front of the truck, so no, I'm not impressed.

That being said I do seem to get better traction than anyone else on the road, but I would say the reputation of the Blizzak, as far as the W965 are concerned, is vastly overstated. Maybe I should have stayed with the DM-Z3 after all

Verdict so far (two weeks), much ado about nothing. My old Hakkas could do at least as good a job as these tires.

All you have to do is look at the tread design and you know those tires aren't pulling your frame and the 5000 lbs attached to it through anything but air. You can't expect the DM-Z3 to pull you through the deep stuff, either, just because the rubber compound can wick water off of ice. Neither tire is designed for the conditions that got you stuck.

Now if you just have to get through... (second pic shows the first when dry)

That's Old Chinaman Gulch after Thanksgiving in the snow - drove home on snow covered roads 2 hours through the Rockies without as much as a slip...the trail was a different story...the Blizzaks, the Hakkas, the ITs...they all stay home. If you can't drag the frame through a bit of snow you sure can't drag it over snow covered boulders

So picture this...you're on a narrow, rocky, snow covered ledge road facing an off camber spot with a drop off long enough to let you think about it before you'd hit anything. You have the choice of Trxus MT (or any good MT like MTR's) or Blizzaks. Which would you choose for lateral traction in those conditions? It's an extreme example, but then again, so is tire testing sedans in an ice rink.

 

[83bj60]

Just a suggestion but doesn't Bridgestone still have that thirty day drive policy where you are allowed to return them if unsatisfied. I think that the catch is you gotta get another Bridgestone tire but maybe you could swap to the DMZ3's if you hurry??? Just a suggestion.

Hmmm.. bought in the US through Tirerack, installed in Sanford, ME, and I live in the Laurentians north of Montreal... A bit complicated!

Do you have a link for this policy?

 

[83bj60]

All you have to do is look at the tread design and you know those tires aren't pulling your frame and the 5000 lbs attached to it through anything but air. You can't expect the DM-Z3 to pull you through the deep stuff, either, just because the rubber compound can wick water off of ice. Neither tire is designed for the conditions that got you stuck.

This is exactly what conlcusion I came to. I was thinking EXACTLY of that tire. "Hmmm with the snow we've been having I would have been much better in some Trxus!"

Yeah, the main stream snow tires are not designed for really deep and greasy snow. I know. I'm just surprised about how much snow we got in the last few days. Already more than we had by end of January last winter. On top of that what I was trying to get through was loose, dense and greasy (snow plow stuff) so it was frustrating, had to get my shovel out

 

[gray]

Move to California, Texas, or Florida and forget the snow. Seriously, any tire meant for snow will work to some degree (lot's of experience in the previous posts) but nothing is skid/stuck proof; ask me how I know.

Storytime:
I recall many years ago as a kid there was a local Model T collector who actually drove them, daily. One of the worst snow storms of the century came through, everything closed, nobody moving. Well, almost nobody; who do you think I saw pulling out of the local Hospital parking lot? That's right, this old geezer in his 1926 Model T. With it's narrow tires, it just dug in and went. Amazing. Not very practical on an 80, but maybe there is someone out there who could design and build an adapter plate for an 80 to Model T----. I'm no help, time to take my medicine (it's Sunny, 70F today).

 

[turbocruiser]

Hmmm.. bought in the US through Tirerack, installed in Sanford, ME, and I live in the Laurentians north of Montreal... A bit complicated!

Do you have a link for this policy?

I think that it only applies with purchase at a Bridgestone dealer. I looked through Tire Rack just now and they only allow return of unused product. If you really dislike the 965's you might be able to sell them and get 3/4 or more of the DMZ or Hak price. I'm sorry you don't like the 965's much but I really appreciate the benefit of reading your reviews!

 

[LC80Ducati996]

Move to California, Texas, or Florida and forget the snow. Seriously, any tire meant for snow will work to some degree (lot's of experience in the previous posts) but nothing is skid/stuck proof; ask me how I know.

Storytime:
I recall many years ago as a kid there was a local Model T collector who actually drove them, daily. One of the worst snow storms of the century came through, everything closed, nobody moving. Well, almost nobody; who do you think I saw pulling out of the local Hospital parking lot? That's right, this old geezer in his 1926 Model T. With it's narrow tires, it just dug in and went. Amazing. Not very practical on an 80, but maybe there is someone out there who could design and build an adapter plate for an 80 to Model T----. I'm no help, time to take my medicine (it's Sunny, 70F today).

If 33" are big enough just run the 255/85R16's in a siped and optionally grooved MT.

Or buckshots.

Super Swamper Special service (bias ack)

Expediton runners go as narrow as the 255's

 

[SUMOTOY]

Well I'm not very happy with the W965 Blizzaks. We've had a lot of fine snow here and frankly, I prefered the studded Hakkapeliittas for traction. The Blizzaks W965 would truly benefit from some studs!!!

On the road with little snow they have good grip and good braking traction so that is great but on soft churned snow they aren't great. I got stuck in my driveway, high centered on the snowbank in front of the truck, so no, I'm not impressed.

That being said I do seem to get better traction than anyone else on the road, but I would say the reputation of the Blizzak, as far as the W965 are concerned, is vastly overstated. Maybe I should have stayed with the DM-Z3 after all

Verdict so far (two weeks), much ado about nothing. My old Hakkas could do at least as good a job as these tires.

A couple suggestions. First, lower the tire pressure, like waay down 25-26psi, and see if that helps. The problem with a light truck tire, is it's meant to be on a beast, ala F250 fully loaded, an FJ80 at 4800lbs isn't allowing a lot of sidewall flex.

When I did the research into the tire I wanted, I had the benefit of my friends at Steamboat who run the school. To each one, they recommended the DMZ3 for the 80, and deal with the tread squirm, cuz that's what gummy bears feel like under-foot. I can also share that when I put tubes in my ice track quattro blizzacks, the performance went down slightly to gain the sidewall stiffness I was looking for. The whole idea is that the tread stays in the snow/ice, not deformed by the sidewall stiffness.

We had the LT tires on our prorally tow vehicle, and they were great with the car on trailer, but not impressive without the load. That said, I know the Haliburton equipment trucks run them at Steamboat, but they are really loaded down.

HTH

Scott J

 

[83bj60]

LC80Ducati996, yes, I think that would be better with the big lugs in granular snow. It's just that we haven't had these snow conditions for a good ten years, past years have been either dry snow that turns hard or soft wet snow. That stuff we've had recently feels more like marbles, I slip even in my moon boots. Another car went in the ditch yesterday by my house and this morning I was waiting behind everyone in traffic again, so the tires are not that bad. It's just that conditions are terrible, the snow is granular and I got high centered on the snow bank. Oh well.

So I broke down and bought a snow plow on tracks, and it's slipping too, dammit! Now I'm considering getting these snow screws on that rubber belt, hehe...