Absolute Best Winter Tire For The 80

[83bj60]

A couple suggestions. First, lower the tire pressure, like waay down 25-26psi, and see if that helps. The problem with a light truck tire, is it's meant to be on a beast, ala F250 fully loaded, an FJ80 at 4800lbs isn't allowing a lot of sidewall flex.
Scott J

Thanks, Scott. I guess the compound on the W965 is indeed harder to deal with the extra load they usually see. When wet, it feels rubbery and it's 'squeaky' when you rub it when wet, definitely not spongy. But as far as flex is concerned, that tire has what I consider good flex. Not squirmy, but good flex nevertheless.

Of course it will be interesting to see how long they wear... Based on the feel of the rubber I am sure they are going to last much longer than DM-Z3s. I was surprised that the paint lines were still visible after 500 km on asphalt. Not the mark of a soft compound.

I'll report again to tell you how it behaves on hard snow, so far it has had excellent braking grip at snowy intersections, as long as it's not too deep of course. For that at least I am grateful, they are very good in those conditions and I am much more confident on the road and have generally good control. But I still feel the studded Hakkas had better, more gradual control than those tires have, and felt more predictable. By that I mean they would start to slip earlier, but more gradually, than the Blizzaks, but they felt like having less braking grip. To be honest though, more experience with that Blizzak is required for a fair comparison.

 

[Driley]

PS, anyone know where I can pick up a set of cheap steel wheels?

I have no idea Eric !

I have had Nokian Vatiivas 265/75R16s on for 2 years and have been very pleased with their all season traction. Great in ice, snow, rain and dry. At $550.00 for a set of 4, I will buy another set when these finally go. With the amount of cinders/gravel they put on the roads in Central Oregon, I expect them to last about another year and a half (about 30,000 miles total in 3 and a half years).

Riley

 

[bigreen505]

Yes, but it's also a lot softer and studs will dig easier in warm ice. Furthermore in colder weather rubber is harder and will be less pliable than in warmer weather. Nothing unexpected about that. What was your point?

Sorry, just saw that. My point was that warm ice (20-32 degrees) is much slicker than cold ice and so the advantage of studs is more pronounced and more important. On cold ice a good studless tire is probably as good, but there is better traction available.

 

[83bj60]

Well that was obvious to me... Hence my first remark!!!

Using the Blizzak W965 for a few weeks now I am less unhappy about its performance than before, but I am still not overly impressed either. I'll have to wait a few thousand km and more varied weather conditions before I make a final asessment.

What I can say for sure is that the W-965 (Light truck 235/85R16) tread compound is very different from that on the DM-Z3 (passenger 205/75R15). The DM-Z3 is visibly and perceptibly spongy, while the W-965 is much more like a regular rubber in apperance and feel. Actually, I doubt they use the multicell compound in the W-965. It looks and feels too much like regular winter rubber to me. And if you remember, I was able to make the tires screech on a sharp stop on wet pavement.

 

[turbocruiser]

Well that was obvious to me... Hence my first remark!!!

Using the Blizzak W965 for a few weeks now I am less unhappy about its performance than before, but I am still not overly impressed either. I'll have to wait a few thousand km and more varied weather conditions before I make a final asessment.

What I can say for sure is that the W-965 (Light truck 235/85R16) tread compound is very different from that on the DM-Z3 (passenger 205/75R15). The DM-Z3 is visibly and perceptibly spongy, while the W-965 is much more like a regular rubber in apperance and feel. Actually, I doubt they use the multicell compound in the W-965. It looks and feels too much like regular winter rubber to me. And if you remember, I was able to make the tires screech on a sharp stop on wet pavement.

I'm really staying intently tuned on these upcoming reviews under different conditions. I would love to be able to swap some DMZ's on your rig right after driving the 965's through these conditions. Of course that wont happen here but anyways ... wish in one hand and ____ in the other...! As I noted way above already, even though the DMZ's added alot of predictable traction to the wifey's RAV4, they definitely did not amaze me and actually only made me realize that no matter what yer wearing tire-wise, you still gotta really respect low friction conditions. DUH Right? But I think that point is pretty profound in itself.

I dunno, these last three days have really reminded me how much the REVOS really suck on smooth ice. They are so good everywhere else but the smooth stuff is pretty high pucker factor if you know what I mean. When my wife's DMZ's wear out (become an all season tire at 45% tread) I think I'm going to get a set of Cooper Discoverer M&S w/ Studs. They are affordable, available at the exact same size as stock setup, readily available all around town, etc. I'd love to do the Haks but I've called and called and the closest place that stocks them normally is almost 75 miles away! Not good for road hazard recovery the way a 2 mile drive to get another Cooper mounted is! Meanwhile, I'll simply run the REVOS on the 80 full-time and park the 80 when it is icy out (as much as predictably possible) and rely on the RAV4 which is pretty impressive actually in winter weather.

Anyway, again, I'm really looking forward to further reviews and I again want to thank you for trying the 965's for all of us to learn through.

 

[83bj60]

Funny you should mention the Cooper. This is my impression of a no-name copy That VIP auto parts carry as their winter tire: the rubber on a passenger tire I saw (they didn't have any in my size in stock) felt soft just like any other winter tire. It had plenty of sipes. Plus it was studdable AND much cheaper than the Blizzaks. ($109 in LT235/85R16).

Swapping winter tires with a fellow mudder with an 80? That would be great, as long as we'd not have to ride 500 miles or more to get to each other!!! I live in Québec north of Montreal and unless one of you goes up north for skiing in winter (Tremblant is a favourite american destination), I don't see how we can do it

 

[bigreen505]

I think I'm going to get a set of Cooper Discoverer M&S w/ Studs. They are affordable, available at the exact same size as stock setup, readily available all around town, etc. I'd love to do the Haks but I've called and called and the closest place that stocks them normally is almost 75 miles away!

I posted a link to a review of the Coopers compared with the Blizzak and Nokian above and I think it is pretty accurate. I don't think the Coopers are in the same league as the Nokians, but I couldn't argue with he price. I don't have a lot of miles on them, but they are surprisingly quiet for studded tires. While IMO the fall short of the bar set by the Nokians, they are certainly adequate.

 

[83bj60]

Yep, my heart sank when I saw the review you posted ... I had just ordered the Blizzaks to be sent ot the VIP store for installation...

Anyway, I tend to agree in general with that road test from a subjective point of view. Although I seriously cannot, reasonably, say that they are worse than the Nokians, they are certainly no better. But you have to keep in mind that we are having a very rigorous winter here (already dropped to -25C yesterday, that's about -15F) with LOTS of snow (It snowed today and I've got a 3 foot by 6 foot snow bank in front of my truck from that and my snowblower isn't fixed yet).

Tomorrow I'll ask my ex how she likes my old Nokians (235/75R15 SUV). To date she's been thrilled, just got to find out how she likes it in the heavy snow we're having...

 

[mudlover]

Walnut shells in the rubber instead of studs.

 

[83bj60]

... and that describes what tires?

 

[mudlover]

My friend bought tires for his sedan with the walnut shells in them last week. I did a quick search and found that several makers are using these. they say it is one of the hardest substances around and grabs into the ice.

 

[83bj60]

I believe the Blizzaks have silica in their compound. That should grip on ice... But in full snow that feature has no effect whatsoever... We've had over 16 inches in the last storm, and it was more like 30 in my driveway... NO WAY I could have gotten out with these ice tires without shoveling!...

OTOH, on cleared roads with ice and compacted hard snow underneath, the Blizzaks offer very good longitudinal (braking) control, with a bit less lateral control. I was constantly waiting behind traffic all afternoon as people would go at 50 in an 80 km/h zone.

 

[turbocruiser]

I believe the Blizzaks have silica in their compound. That should grip on ice... But in full snow that feature has no effect whatsoever... We've had over 16 inches in the last storm, and it was more like 30 in my driveway... NO WAY I could have gotten out with these ice tires without shoveling!...

OTOH, on cleared roads with ice and compacted hard snow underneath, the Blizzaks offer very good longitudinal (braking) control, with a bit less lateral control. I was constantly waiting behind traffic all afternoon as people would go at 50 in an 80 km/h zone.

Hmmm, another strike against the Blizzak 965's - the REVOS would have blasted right through that 30".

OTOH, on those same cleared roads with ice and compacted hard snow, the REVOS are actually pretty good for forward acceleration, not so good for braking and really awful at lateral control.

I wish I could find comparable reviews between the Blizzak 965 and the Blizzak DMZ3. BTW, while I was at the Bridgestone dealer the other day the rep there told me that they were going to release a "DMZ4" (he's not so sure that is the real name) which will be another evolution of the DMZ3. The rep there also told me that the 965 is slowly fading from stock. AND the rep there also told me that waiting for a Blizzak in 33" (285/75 R16) to match my REVOS so I could use my RUD tire chains is NOT a good idea in the sense that apparently Bridgestone does not allow the use of chains with Blizzaks!!!!! The compound is too soft to take that abuse apparently and it will void warranties even. SOOO, my whole original preference for finding a Blizzak that will work with my chains was flawed. Arrggh.

 

[steveVA]

I read about these, and have not seen these mentioned, anyone have experience with these? They appear to be Revo's with the green diamond technology.

Green Diamond Tire

 

[turbocruiser]

I read about these, and have not seen these mentioned, anyone have experience with these? They appear to be Revo's with the green diamond technology.

Green Diamond Tire

Interesting idea but I think that those are re-treads or re-molds, I tried those things once on my 4Runner (not the green diamond specifically, just a re-tread) and absolutely hated them. I don't understand how they can use that specific REVO tread pattern though? Can someone confirm if I'm reading that site right about the re-tread or re-mold of these tires? Otherwise, again, a very interesting idea!

 

[mudlover]

Toyo and Green Diamond are using the walnut shells.

 

[Atoyot1031]

From the Green Diamond website:

"Green Diamond Tires are an Icelandic invention... from a region of the world where they know about safe winter driving. Each Green Diamond Tire is an ingenious and technologically sophisticated remoldedtire with thousands of diamond-hard silicium carbide granules embedded evenly throughout the tire's tread.

As the tread wears, new granules appear at the tread surface affording enhanced safety, control and handling security. Green Diamond Tires are well suited to Anti-lock Braking Systems (ABS)... gripping in the most slippery of braking and cornering conditions at road surface temperatures nearing 0o Celsius. Green Diamond Tires are scientifically proven to out-perform 'major' tire manufacturer's products in the harshest of conditions. "

No mention of walnut shells. I love the idea (especially if it's from those crazy bastards in Iceland), but I have the same problem with them as with any other snow/ice tire manufacturer...THERE IS NOTHING IN A 305 OR 315!


So if you are geared (4.88 or lower for Nay's sake), live in areas with lots of snow, want a real snow tire, you are screwed!

 

[Nay]

So if you are geared (4.88 or lower for Nay's sake), live in areas with lots of snow, want a real snow tire, you are screwed!

I know, I've been screwed for years in every kind of condition and never once lost control or got stuck (well, outside of drift busting for fun that is)...it's just awful and I don't know what to do about it

The Yoko IT comes in a 315, and for winter tires you'd want a 285 over a 305 since they are the same height and the 285 is narrower. That should open up a bunch of choices.

Silica compounds are becoming pretty standard - they have been around in the "performance winter tire" category for years where you want a high speed rating for variable highway conditions (think Northern European use on AWD sport sedans).

Even the Yoko Avid TRZ's on my minivan are silica (Yoko's new AT's are a silica compound, too) and the van does about as well as it did with Hakka Q's on hardpack and in light snow and these tires are rated to 80K miles.

I think the Yokohama AT that is now made with a silica compound deserves a very hard look for anybody who wants an AT focused on winter traction. Price is pretty good, too.

If you want to change your perspective on winter driving in the most extreme conditions, download and watch this (22 mins worth of hardcore rock crawling in the snow - not an AT or studless in sight ):

http://www.yodertech.com/4x4/Chinamans_Nov_07.wmv

 

[Atoyot1031]

I know, I've been screwed for years in every kind of condition and never once lost control or got stuck (well, outside of drift busting for fun that is)...it's just awful and I don't know what to do about it

The Yoko IT comes in a 315, and for winter tires you'd want a 285 over a 305 since they are the same height and the 285 is narrower. That should open up a bunch of choices.

Silica compounds are becoming pretty standard - they have been around in the "performance winter tire" category for years where you want a high speed rating for variable highway conditions (think Northern European use on AWD sport sedans).

Even the Yoko Avid TRZ's on my minivan are silica (Yoko's new AT's are a silica compound, too) and the van does about as well as it did with Hakka Q's on hardpack and in light snow and these tires are rated to 80K miles.

I think the Yokohama AT that is now made with a silica compound deserves a very hard look for anybody who wants an AT focused on winter traction. Price is pretty good, too.

Not asking you to do my homeowrk for me...but are any studdable. I maybe considered old skool, but I still love studs digging into ice especially around here where the ice persists for weeks after a storm and only gets worse everyday with the thawing and freezing and thawing and freezing...

Thanks Nay!

 

[Nay]

Not asking you to do my homeowrk for me...but are any studdable. I maybe considered old skool, but I still love studs digging into ice especially around here where the ice persists for weeks after a storm and only gets worse everyday with the thawing and freezing and thawing and freezing...

Thanks Nay!

That I don't know - have you tried one of the new studless tires? You may be amazed at how good they really are and you don't have studs if you get out on the highway much. You probably want to look at Nokian if you are willing to run something closer to a 32".

http://www.nokiantire.com