Builds 80 series where to start! Again.... (5 Viewers)

[Heckraiser]

Careful I got a speeding ticket in a 20r mini truck once. 50 in a 35 I believe, and yes, it was downhill

 

[scottryana]

The combustion chamber is 83cc's and the stock exhaust runners are just under 99cc's. I am going to wait until I am back at the hospital and grab some 10cc, 20cc and 60cc syringes to do the stock intake runner and the ported intake and exhaust runners.

Since I have had a difficult time getting access to a flow bench to test my head, I will be going off of runner volume making sure they are equal or very close at least initially.

 

[hazard]

Will you be using those valves to complete?
I noticed you have left squish pads in, is that the plan, or will it depend on final CR?
Finished porting?

The combustion chamber is 83cc's and the stock exhaust runners are just under 99cc's. I am going to wait until I am back at the hospital and grab some 10cc, 20cc and 60cc syringes to do the stock intake runner and the ported intake and exhaust runners.

Since I have had a difficult time getting access to a flow bench to test my head, I will be going off of runner volume making sure they are equal or very close at least initially.

those valves look pretty deep in seats, was that planned?
I have my volumes for my stock runners, will be interesting to see if yours are the same.

 

[scottryana]

These were simply used OEM valves that Beno sent me so that I could test flow pre and post porting and polishing as well as changing valves sizes. Neither the valves or the seats have been changed from stock.

I know it seems kind of strange but I have ported and polished 5 of the 6 cylinders and left one stock so I can test it.
If I can find some time to get the head over to the shop I found to do flow testing (approximately 3 hours away)

The plan is to:
Test the flow in the unported cylinder (6) with stock valve size
Cut in the 3+mm intake valves and 1+mm exhaust valves and test cylinders (1-5)
Come home port (6) and then take it back and cut in the bigger valves for (6)

Yeah it doesn't make any sense but I am trying to get the community pre/post numbers for OEM flow and ported and polished flow with larger valves.

Oh and not much volume change with the port and polish, on the exhaust side. The unchanged runner was 98.5cc the port and polished runner I tested was 101.5

Will you be using those valves to complete?
I noticed you have left squish pads in, is that the plan, or will it depend on final CR?
Finished porting?

those valves look pretty deep in seats, was that planned?
I have my volumes for my stock runners, will be interesting to see if yours are the same.

 

[hazard]

These were simply used OEM valves that Beno sent me so that I could test flow pre and post porting and polishing as well as changing valves sizes. Neither the valves or the seats have been changed from stock.

I know it seems kind of strange but I have ported and polished 5 of the 6 cylinders and left one stock so I can test it.
If I can find some time to get the head over to the shop I found to do flow testing (approximately 3 hours away)

The plan is to:
Test the flow in the unported cylinder (6) with stock valve size
Cut in the 3+mm intake valves and 1+mm exhaust valves and test cylinders (1-5)
Come home port (6) and then take it back and cut in the bigger valves for (6)

Yeah it doesn't make any sense but I am trying to get the community pre/post numbers for OEM flow and ported and polished flow with larger valves.

It makes perfect sense to me.
I wish we had some useable ports we could use for computerized porting, you’ve seen my thread, as hand porting is almost impossible to have equal flow. If you get the right numbers maybe we could use.
How did you decide on+3mm valves? Will you put in + 3mm seats also. I was going to go +2mm seats and valves, just because I thought that would be about the right match

 

[LS1FJ40]

I understand .01% of this thread but it sounds cool as sh!t!

 

[scottryana]

Yep I will have the seats cut for a 3 angle or radius depending on what the machine shop uses but they will match the valves.

I agree computerized would be awesome I just don't see it happening. Realistically someone needs to take a head and have it sliced apart every few cm so that we could actually see what clearances there are then make the port changes clamp it back together and digitize it and then without a bunch of back to back testing we would never really know what is best. Companies that do this and sell thousands of heads don't even get it right on the first go, for us to lay out the investment would be pretty crazy. lol..

I did a +3mm on the intake side and a +1mm on the exhaust side. But I did that because I was adding a turbo. Positive boost pressure is basically the amount of air you can't get into your engine, so by opening up the intake ports, having larger intake valves, etc you reduce the restriction and ideally can make the same amount of power with less psi. This isn't how you would approach it on a NA build because you have to be more concerned with intake air speed, but with a turbo if you have a pressurized air tract with 30psi behind it, it will push the air plenty fast. lol.

It makes perfect sense to me.
I wish we had some useable ports we could use for computerized porting, you’ve seen my thread, as hand porting is almost impossible to have equal flow. If you get the right numbers maybe we could use.
How did you decide on+3mm valves? Will you put in + 3mm seats also. I was going to go +2mm seats and valves, just because I thought that would be about the right match

 

[dogfishlake]

Yep I will have the seats cut for a 3 angle or radius depending on what the machine shop uses but they will match the valves.

I agree computerized would be awesome I just don't see it happening. Realistically someone needs to take a head and have it sliced apart every few cm so that we could actually see what clearances there are then make the port changes clamp it back together and digitize it and then without a bunch of back to back testing we would never really know what is best. Companies that do this and sell thousands of heads don't even get it right on the first go, for us to lay out the investment would be pretty crazy. lol..

I did a +3mm on the intake side and a +1mm on the exhaust side. But I did that because I was adding a turbo. Positive boost pressure is basically the amount of air you can't get into your engine, so by opening up the intake ports, having larger intake valves, etc you reduce the restriction and ideally can make the same amount of power with less psi. This isn't how you would approach it on a NA build because you have to be more concerned with intake air speed, but with a turbo if you have a pressurized air tract with 30psi behind it, it will push the air plenty fast. lol.

I love the effort and the high tech approach. It seems from that picture that the valve work would yield the most gain. I was amazed at the level of precision the original 1FZ-FE head was cast with. I grew up with 60's era American V8's that needed all the help they could get.

 

[hazard]

Yep I will have the seats cut for a 3 angle or radius depending on what the machine shop uses but they will match the valves.

I agree computerized would be awesome I just don't see it happening. Realistically someone needs to take a head and have it sliced apart every few cm so that we could actually see what clearances there are then make the port changes clamp it back together and digitize it and then without a bunch of back to back testing we would never really know what is best. Companies that do this and sell thousands of heads don't even get it right on the first go, for us to lay out the investment would be pretty crazy. lol..

I did a +3mm on the intake side and a +1mm on the exhaust side. But I did that because I was adding a turbo. Positive boost pressure is basically the amount of air you can't get into your engine, so by opening up the intake ports, having larger intake valves, etc you reduce the restriction and ideally can make the same amount of power with less psi. This isn't how you would approach it on a NA build because you have to be more concerned with intake air speed, but with a turbo if you have a pressurized air tract with 30psi behind it, it will push the air plenty fast. lol.

If we found a head that flowed for our “average” user/improvement, then it is a matter of digitizing which is done with lasers and requires no head cutting.
It would cost around $3,000 to digitize, and create a cnc program. Let’s looks at your final flow figures first.

 

[scottryana]

I mentioned the head cutting simply so that we could actually see how much clearance we had to water jackets, etc so we would know how much we could safely remove, not for the digitizing. But yes it’s very hard to guess and think there there will be plenty of beef. A great example is the really strange casting in the intake port 5. I didn’t know why it was there if there was something behind it, if I could get rid of it, etc. but it is the only port that has it. I bit my tongue and started porting and luckily there was nothing there but you just don’t know without cutting the head open.

If we found a head that flowed for our “average” user/improvement, then it is a matter of digitizing which is done with lasers and requires no head cutting.
It would cost around $3,000 to digitize, and create a cnc program. Let’s looks at your final flow figures first.

 

[hazard]

I never noticed 5, as I haven’t started head yet. Off to Baja, will check when I get back.

 

[scottryana]

Not a huge deal, this is Robbie's port job but you can still see it in the second port from the left on the right wall and this is after he has worked on it. Stock it is even more dramatic. I was able to get rid of it, but like I said it was a little nerve racking not knowing why only that one cylinder has it and what could be underneath.

I never noticed 5, as I haven’t started head yet. Off to Baja, will check when I get back.

 

[hazard]

Don’t recall seeing that, will check when back. I was more curious about the extra boss and cam lobe that I think was for a pushrod fuel pump on a different model. It would make a good cam sensor if needed. Got my Crower cams now but haven’t checked to see if they have the extra lobe

 

[scottryana]

I am pretty sure it’s there, it was on my old head and on the brand new head I bought and every picture I have ever seen. It’s only in #5.

And like I said it’s no big deal at all now. I completely removed it when I ported but it is just one of those tough moments when you’re looking at your $1400 chunk of aluminum and going WTF is that? Why is it there? Can I grind it out? What’s behind it? If I try to eliminate it will I end up with a hole in the runner?

There are a few things like that, that I ran into porting, for the most part I sided on the safe side, that was the only really aggressive removal that I did. Well that and I had to remove a lot of material to gasket match the intake side.

I will grab a picture of my #5 here in a minute.

Don’t recall seeing that, will check when back. I was more curious about the extra boss and cam lobe that I think was for a pushrod fuel pump on a different model. It would make a good cam sensor if needed. Got my Crower cams now but haven’t checked to see if they have the extra lobe

 

[scottryana]

Whoops sorry! I kept saying #5, but it is actually #2. I knew it was one from the end but I obviously must have been drunk that day.

Mine during porting (still quite a bit of clean up and polishing to do):

Robbie's with some of the strange shape in #2. Like I said he removed quite a bit of it, in stock form it is considerably more pronounced.

 

[scottryana]

Holy sheit this is the company that did my CNC stainless turbo collector, they have really gone nuts with the machining on this engine. 1500hp at 233lbs! lol

 

[thatcabledude]

Whoa!

 

[hamishpotter]

that thing is insane. why do we need 6 cylinders

 

[scottryana]

Because if 4L and 4 cylinders can do 1500hp at 233lbs, than we could do 6L and 6 cylinders for 2250hp and 350lbs. Lol

that thing is insane. why do we need 6 cylinders

 

[Heckraiser]

Hey, not bad for 120k euros