80 series Slinky/ICON Long Travel Suspension officially coming to the U.S.A.
- Thread starter GW Nugget
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #83
Thanks.
That's 11.32" front stroke -1" for the 1" bump puck required to protect it. That's a 10.3" front shock... bummer. The 2.5 seems to be better with a resi set up.
The rear will need at least a 2" bump spacer. 10.57" stroke.
Hmmm.
This would be better for a 4" lift just like you wrote.
Thanks Dylan you have been a lot of help here.
I'm done with questions... finally.
@RLMS I want to order the front 75mm front 160/260 Slinky coils for now. The 2.5 resi shocks will have to wait till later.
you wont lose the stoke with the correct spacer you just protect the shock from bottoming so it is all used. the extended is still more
but yes you don't end up that far ahead on total travel. your either higher or trading droop for bump travel. I don't like compromising bump travel, especial in the rear.
@DylanICON what kind of set up do you have on that 80?
Just looking at what I need to do to air mine out once or twice to shake the rust off the body b4 paint... Lmao
- Thread starter
- #86
I'm running 37"s & not willing to limit uptravel in any way by putting in bump pucks up front. I need a shock that is 16" or less to do that. Yes 37"s on stock bumps will require cutting of the fenders & I'm ok with that. I have OME Ls up front that compress at approx 15.25" so for now these will work for me just fine till I get the ICON 2.5 resi.
Thanks again Dylan for your quality products.
75mm Slinkies here I come... no more dropping coils out.
Thanks again Dylan for your quality products.
75mm Slinkies here I come... no more dropping coils out.
How are you measuring the 16"? Is that mounting surface to mounting surface....or are you using the 'industry' typical measurements for stem to stem shocks?
I find that all confusing.
I am going to measure my 80-series chassis again with all the rubber bumpstops pulled out again. I swear I get a different measurement every time I go back to it....
- Thread starter
- #88
Yeap.
That pic came from Dylan & I measure just like that.
The 16" compression max number comes from Darren.
The trick is to make sure you do a fiscal cycle of the suspension.
Another confusing thing is you add bushing lenght on exstension, but not with compression because of the squish of the bushings on complete bottoming.
Weird eh?
For you just purchase your shocks last for your build. Cycle it & measure.
Cycle it & measure..............
That pic came from Dylan & I measure just like that.
The 16" compression max number comes from Darren.
The trick is to make sure you do a fiscal cycle of the suspension.
Another confusing thing is you add bushing lenght on exstension, but not with compression because of the squish of the bushings on complete bottoming.
Weird eh?
For you just purchase your shocks last for your build. Cycle it & measure.
Cycle it & measure..............
I have it cycled as far as it will go in the up direction.....
I pulled the springs completely along with the rubber bumpstops, it is metal on metal right now......
I would like to find the longest travel possible shock that will fit in the stock mounts when fully compressed. Up-travel is nice.
It was mentioned that we needed to add 7/8" to EACH end of the front Stem/Stem shock when trying to compare lengths.
The likelihood of the front suspension becoming THIS compressed once the rubber bump-stop is installed, so I believe there is a little wiggle room in the space available. I think I am working at the worst possible case.
I am working with stock LX450 springs however. I believe there is a decent amount of pre-load at full droop with the factory shocks and springs. I have some pictures of that I can dig up. On the droop side of things, I don't want to fully unload the front coils with too much shock travel. I want to maintain at least 1" of pre-load on the front springs at full droop. Limiting downtravel is fairly easy with a limiting strap if I end up with a shock that is slightly too long. I would like to install limiting straps anyways to prevent shock damage.
I pulled the springs completely along with the rubber bumpstops, it is metal on metal right now......
I would like to find the longest travel possible shock that will fit in the stock mounts when fully compressed. Up-travel is nice.
It was mentioned that we needed to add 7/8" to EACH end of the front Stem/Stem shock when trying to compare lengths.
The likelihood of the front suspension becoming THIS compressed once the rubber bump-stop is installed, so I believe there is a little wiggle room in the space available. I think I am working at the worst possible case.
I am working with stock LX450 springs however. I believe there is a decent amount of pre-load at full droop with the factory shocks and springs. I have some pictures of that I can dig up. On the droop side of things, I don't want to fully unload the front coils with too much shock travel. I want to maintain at least 1" of pre-load on the front springs at full droop. Limiting downtravel is fairly easy with a limiting strap if I end up with a shock that is slightly too long. I would like to install limiting straps anyways to prevent shock damage.
- Thread starter
- #90
The info you need is all in here.
Dylan & Darren has given all the specs.
To run a stock coil you will need a stock demension shock. To run the longer shock like the OME L... then you will need an 30mm spacer on top of that stock coil to keep it retained. It's all about free height.
The reason why I know is because I have done it.
You can do Lx coils +25mm spring spacers & L length shocks... I've done it.
GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lexi450 build....
Dylan & Darren has given all the specs.
To run a stock coil you will need a stock demension shock. To run the longer shock like the OME L... then you will need an 30mm spacer on top of that stock coil to keep it retained. It's all about free height.
The reason why I know is because I have done it.
You can do Lx coils +25mm spring spacers & L length shocks... I've done it.
GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lexi450 build....
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Um.......I don't think 'stock' is the best answer from what I can tell....
Front suspension.
On full compression the stock shock leaves this much extra space.
I can push the stock shock down an additional 1.5" with the rubber bumpstop removed and the suspension sitting metal on metal. That is wasted overall shock length. A decent amount of it. The stock front shocks are suppose to be 'Factory front--13.9 compressed--23.7 extended--9.8" travel'.
With the stock front spring in the chassis with VERY little weight ( bare chassis and a FJ40 cowl basically ) you end up with this much extra spring 'preload' after unbolting the top nut on the shock.
You can see the extra 2.5-3" above the shock bushing and the spring still has a little bit of preload from the weight of the frame.
To me, that says there is a lot of extra travel in the front suspension with the stock shock mounts. Potentially, I should be able to add 2" of shock travel as long as the shock will still fit in the mounts...and I would still have 1" of preload on the coil at full droop. The limiting factor is that the shock can only be so long. There is at least and extra 1.5" of shock length when the suspension is fully compressed metal on metal. If the stock front shock is 13.9" compressed, that would be a 15.4" long shock ( and still have room for bushings I think ). That is also the worst case. I don't think the front suspension can go all the way to metal on metal with the stock bumpstop installed?
Thoughts?
- Thread starter
- #92
I have been where you are...
You are on the right track.
We all here feel your pain.
This is why we are all here.
Click link below to see my jurney.
GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lexi450 build....
You will find in time that the stock coils are not strong enough to do the job. You will be bouncing around like a horse & buggy. You will also find you won't have enough up travel in the shock if you run the longer shocks. This is why you are stuck with a stockish length shock if you want a stockish lift.
Sucks huh? If only Toyota would of made that shock tower one inch taller when they made these $50,000 dollar luxury SUV's.
So this is where we are all at.
This is why the Slinky & ICON' are here.
If you want to run the longer shocks you will need to have at least a 20" free height coil. To do that traditionally you would need a 850J to stay retained.
This is your basic 4 choices... which is 2 more choices than last month.
Three are dual rate options.
1) OME stock height springs +25mm spring spacers up front with L shocks = 1.5" lift.
2) 50, 70 or 75mm Slinky coils w/ 2.5 or CDC resi shocks = 2", 2.75" or 3" lift.
3) ICON Stage 1, 2 or 3 =3" lift.
4) Traditional singe rate stiff OME 850J/863 & Ls = 3.5" lift.
You are on the right track.
We all here feel your pain.
This is why we are all here.
Click link below to see my jurney.
GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lexi450 build....
You will find in time that the stock coils are not strong enough to do the job. You will be bouncing around like a horse & buggy. You will also find you won't have enough up travel in the shock if you run the longer shocks. This is why you are stuck with a stockish length shock if you want a stockish lift.
Sucks huh? If only Toyota would of made that shock tower one inch taller when they made these $50,000 dollar luxury SUV's.
So this is where we are all at.
This is why the Slinky & ICON' are here.
If you want to run the longer shocks you will need to have at least a 20" free height coil. To do that traditionally you would need a 850J to stay retained.
This is your basic 4 choices... which is 2 more choices than last month.
Three are dual rate options.
1) OME stock height springs +25mm spring spacers up front with L shocks = 1.5" lift.
2) 50, 70 or 75mm Slinky coils w/ 2.5 or CDC resi shocks = 2", 2.75" or 3" lift.
3) ICON Stage 1, 2 or 3 =3" lift.
4) Traditional singe rate stiff OME 850J/863 & Ls = 3.5" lift.
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While I agree for typical full body 80-series that you are dead on. That is not my situation.
I am basically building something that should have significantly less sprung weight than stock ( set back aluminum engine, aluminum fenders, aluminum radiator, minimal front bumper set back on the frame, etc. The stock front 80-series front springs are a 120lb/in rate (?) from what I could find. The front springs are 20.5" free length on the drivers side and 19.5" free length on the passenger side. The spring seat distance at full metal bump is 7.5". The current mounting surface to mounting surface front shock length is 17"(!) at full metal bump.
I will use 20" average for the front spring length to keep things a little more round numbers. If the max compressed distance of the spring is 7.5". That leaves 12.5" available for spring travel. I would reserve 1" of that in preload at full shock extension ( I don't like it when the springs float free at max droop ). That leaves 11.5" of possible shock travel in the stock front suspension. Finding a shock that will fit and yield those travel issues is the challenging part.
As far as spring rate.
My general feeling is that the best spring rate is the lightest possible spring rate that will do the job. That job includes holding the vehicle at the chassis height you want. I prefer is the spring has enough free length to maintain at least some preload at full droop. I realize this is contrary to what most people think. With the 80-series that is why we are seeing dual rate coils. I cannot use the dual rate coils in my application in my opinion. Those spring rates will be WAY too high and give too high a ride height.
I am assuming that the stock springs are 120lbs/in ( I found that from an ICON related post) ( we need to keep in mind that is per corner ). I will be getting a real un-sprung weight soon. I have the final tires and wheels on so it won't change much through the build. I will also be tracking total corner weight as I build.
Once we know the sprung weight ( total corner weight R+L, minus un-sprung weight ) we can get a rough idea of what the final vehicle height would be. ( uptravel is listed metal to metal )
0 ( with 1" preload ) will be 240lbs sprung weight, this would be 11.5" uptravel
1 ( with 1" preload ) will be 480lbs sprung weight, this would be 10.5" uptravel
2 ( with 1" preload ) will be 720lbs sprung weight, this would be 9.5" uptravel
3 ( with 1" preload ) will be 960lbs sprung weight, this would be 8.5" uptravel
4 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1200lbs sprung weight, this would be 7.5" uptravel
5 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1440lbs sprung weight, this would be 6.5" uptravel
6 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1680lbs sprung weight, this would be 5.5" uptravel
7 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1920lbs sprung weight, this would be 4.5" uptravel
8 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2160lbs sprung weight, this would be 3.5" uptravel
9 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2400lbs sprung weight, this would be 2.5" uptravel
10 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2640lbs sprung weight, this would be 1.5" uptravel
11 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2880lbs sprung weight, this would be 0.5" uptravel
I will have my corner scale here soon. It will be interesting to track the corner/sprung weight through the build. There will be certain things that I can adjust as I build to move weight around.
I would like to be in the 7.5-5.5" up-travel range. I don't think 1200-1680lbs of sprung weight on the front is out of the question for my build. That is 600-840lbs SPRUNG weight per corner.
I don't know what the block height is for the front coil, but it would imagine there is a little wiggle room. A 1" spacer between the coil mount and coil cone (as long as you didn't change the bumpstop mount) would not change the coil space. It would allow a 1" longer shock also, but it would also limit uptravel 1". The alternative would be a spacer between the coil and coil cone. If you don't change the bumpstop length, you are forcing the coil further toward the block height. If I need a small adjustment in height I will likely build a spacer system and look what I can do with coil block height carefully.
The funny part, is that I feel the rear suspension will be the overall height driver of the chassis. I think the rear of the chassis will be very light compared to a stock or modified 80 series. I believe the stock LX450 coils are about 150lbs/in. I will be interesting to track the weight of the rear of the chassis as I build. I would really like it if the car had a slightly front weight bias when almost 'empty' and approached 50/50 when packed for longer trips. I pack very light generally. I will be trying to keep as much weight forward in the chassis as I can. I can't imagine the sprung weight is going to be higher on the rear axle, which presents a slight spring rate issue....it might have to be lighter than 150lbs! eeeekk.
Sorry that turned into a novel....
Brennan
I am basically building something that should have significantly less sprung weight than stock ( set back aluminum engine, aluminum fenders, aluminum radiator, minimal front bumper set back on the frame, etc. The stock front 80-series front springs are a 120lb/in rate (?) from what I could find. The front springs are 20.5" free length on the drivers side and 19.5" free length on the passenger side. The spring seat distance at full metal bump is 7.5". The current mounting surface to mounting surface front shock length is 17"(!) at full metal bump.
I will use 20" average for the front spring length to keep things a little more round numbers. If the max compressed distance of the spring is 7.5". That leaves 12.5" available for spring travel. I would reserve 1" of that in preload at full shock extension ( I don't like it when the springs float free at max droop ). That leaves 11.5" of possible shock travel in the stock front suspension. Finding a shock that will fit and yield those travel issues is the challenging part.
As far as spring rate.
My general feeling is that the best spring rate is the lightest possible spring rate that will do the job. That job includes holding the vehicle at the chassis height you want. I prefer is the spring has enough free length to maintain at least some preload at full droop. I realize this is contrary to what most people think. With the 80-series that is why we are seeing dual rate coils. I cannot use the dual rate coils in my application in my opinion. Those spring rates will be WAY too high and give too high a ride height.
I am assuming that the stock springs are 120lbs/in ( I found that from an ICON related post) ( we need to keep in mind that is per corner ). I will be getting a real un-sprung weight soon. I have the final tires and wheels on so it won't change much through the build. I will also be tracking total corner weight as I build.
Once we know the sprung weight ( total corner weight R+L, minus un-sprung weight ) we can get a rough idea of what the final vehicle height would be. ( uptravel is listed metal to metal )
0 ( with 1" preload ) will be 240lbs sprung weight, this would be 11.5" uptravel
1 ( with 1" preload ) will be 480lbs sprung weight, this would be 10.5" uptravel
2 ( with 1" preload ) will be 720lbs sprung weight, this would be 9.5" uptravel
3 ( with 1" preload ) will be 960lbs sprung weight, this would be 8.5" uptravel
4 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1200lbs sprung weight, this would be 7.5" uptravel
5 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1440lbs sprung weight, this would be 6.5" uptravel
6 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1680lbs sprung weight, this would be 5.5" uptravel
7 ( with 1" preload ) will be 1920lbs sprung weight, this would be 4.5" uptravel
8 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2160lbs sprung weight, this would be 3.5" uptravel
9 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2400lbs sprung weight, this would be 2.5" uptravel
10 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2640lbs sprung weight, this would be 1.5" uptravel
11 ( with 1" preload ) will be 2880lbs sprung weight, this would be 0.5" uptravel
I will have my corner scale here soon. It will be interesting to track the corner/sprung weight through the build. There will be certain things that I can adjust as I build to move weight around.
I would like to be in the 7.5-5.5" up-travel range. I don't think 1200-1680lbs of sprung weight on the front is out of the question for my build. That is 600-840lbs SPRUNG weight per corner.
I don't know what the block height is for the front coil, but it would imagine there is a little wiggle room. A 1" spacer between the coil mount and coil cone (as long as you didn't change the bumpstop mount) would not change the coil space. It would allow a 1" longer shock also, but it would also limit uptravel 1". The alternative would be a spacer between the coil and coil cone. If you don't change the bumpstop length, you are forcing the coil further toward the block height. If I need a small adjustment in height I will likely build a spacer system and look what I can do with coil block height carefully.
The funny part, is that I feel the rear suspension will be the overall height driver of the chassis. I think the rear of the chassis will be very light compared to a stock or modified 80 series. I believe the stock LX450 coils are about 150lbs/in. I will be interesting to track the weight of the rear of the chassis as I build. I would really like it if the car had a slightly front weight bias when almost 'empty' and approached 50/50 when packed for longer trips. I pack very light generally. I will be trying to keep as much weight forward in the chassis as I can. I can't imagine the sprung weight is going to be higher on the rear axle, which presents a slight spring rate issue....it might have to be lighter than 150lbs! eeeekk.
Sorry that turned into a novel....
Brennan
Brennan where do you live? I want to help you on your build/learn s***.
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Yes, if you dont have front inner chassis bump stops [early models until 08/92 here] then 1/2" spacers would be advised.
245 kph on the limiter in 5th [manual] was as fast as my first 80 turbo petrol would go, on 33's. over 230 kph it would get floaty in the front as air pressure lifted it and it would drop, lift and drop but it didnt do that in the dirt sliding around like it did the hwy at those speeds.
The supercharged one would only do 225 kph ish because throttle position wouldnt lock the torque convertor.
Nearly finished tuning my current one, will see if we can crack 250kph on 35s with this one, with manual switch lock up convertor and 35s with 4.56 gears.
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- Joined
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- Central Victoria, desert region.
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Front panhard rod mount mainly. We do a full bead where they crack along the 90 degree fold, and you have to fully weld the pipe brace as well, as they crack from the ends of the 2 small welds as the next flex point.
This is a RHD model.
Front axles need bracing for heavy trucks as they flex and leak oil around the carrier between 3 and 6 o clock on the carrier side mainly the short axle side, when pushed hard.
Last year we did car park to top of the world, 45 minute lunch and back to car park in 2 hours, loaded tourer 80, overtook some RZRs and jeeps and a couple of bikes, front housing got the ebola virus after that....
Just the type of long term abuse info I was looking for.
Great tip on the panhard bracket, I will put that on my list.
Do you have any picture of bracing for the front axle?
Thank you very much for information.