80 series Slinky/ICON Long Travel Suspension officially coming to the U.S.A. (3 Viewers)

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I just want make sure that every one knows that what happen with Delancy's situation was not AutoCraft Slinkies.

I approve this message, although no mention was made of past transgressions in this thread.

I started hitting Darren up over a year before buying the LX as he was running this setup then. He's not a newcomer to the game, by any stretch, commend for making the effort to finally bring across the pond, and fully expect his product to deliver as advertised.

At no point has nor will, anything said counter that.

The coils where a progressive rate rather than dual rate

Not to beat a dead horse.

The differentiation, nor description suit.

What I had and all I've seen in this length are coils with expandable 'dead' coil rungs at the top, that remain dead until the lower coil extends beyond free length (unloads), allowing the dead coils to expand to keep in the bucket.

Packaging a dual rate coil in the minimal distance afforded even a lifted 80, doesn't appear possible, said after a lot of dialogue with a custom coil manufacturer that had four OE coils, on the proverbial bench to formulate that opinion.

We're not talking about a purpose built race suspension

The same basic fundamentals apply......better, are inescapable.....be it race built or a Kia.

Truth be told, the coils/shocks are a significant, smaller portion pf the whole, but there's numerous threads serving as gravestones for thousands of dead horses beaten into oblivion, so no point in rehashing here.

Manufacturers would be on the fast track to bankruptcy if that's what they supplied to consumers.

You hit one nail on the head.

They'd also be bankrupt offering a $15-20k solve all, do all, fix all ails package, which is why we don't see them marketed, yet what it would cost.

This very small market segment has vocalized their demands, being low entry fee and the market responded accordingly.

Many shudder at utterances of $700 shocks, much less than $350 per corner shocks that do perform as the lesser cost offerings claim to.

The fact that Christo isn't in on this doesn't surprise me at all.....

He'd have lower margins than what he likely gets from selling his own proprietary product.

Christo's the smartest, most successful businessman in this game. Considering he's one of the straightest shooters I've ever talked to in this entire industry, commendable and more power to him.

I doubt there's much of anything that's produced by Slee, not that it matters, but doubt there's any component of an 80 lift that is, yet there's no shortage of Slee badging on all.

My curiosity was mildly piqued, the extent, because it seems odd to bring a new product offering through a relatively unknown channel in this small specific market.

But none of my business, nor concerns, as I've lifted my last '80'.

I'm confidently optimistic

Me, too.


It's Delancy. :flipoff2:

clearly not engineered

None of the products offered are 'engineered', at least not from a holistic perspective.

Nothing is certified viable beyond an individual component of a partial suspension 'kit', and any marketing ploy that claims more than that is a bold lie.

(See above about $15-20k price tag, because that's what it would cost to even shade tree 'engineer' a correct 'kit')

In my case, I did exactly what you all are doing, except a very detailed expectation that anything short of successfully fulfilling was a fail.

After extensively researching the best the market had to offer, I failed.

We live and learn.
 
Would love to talk to redline about this. So how are these compared to the 4 inch offered by slee? Want to get the best flex and articulation cause I wheel really hard. On 33s now but want to go 35. Looking at early may for an install of a lift. Can someone explain will there be a comparable lift to his 4in. Also cost cause the slee lift is a bit pricey. Live in the golden area.
 
Sorry that ended up being a book.

You should be damn sorry.

No misspellings, correctly structured, understandable, with a fairly firm grasp on punctuation.

You just need more ,,,,,,,,,'s.

:flipoff2:

:)

I am taking the LONG way around towards that on my new build. I am using a completely stock 1996 LX450 chassis with a 40" tire and am building a custom FJ45-esk pickup body to set on top.

By changing the body to something different, along with changing the position of things slightly, I was able to fit the larger tires at full bump.

I was a few weeks away from correcting issues on my LX, before I killed her a few years back. Since, she's been stored in ashen state, awaiting a return to glory that was soon to begin.

In the past few years of plotting and planning, the only way I could see to correct my perceived 'ails' was to cab, and the 45, 75, even a half assed 80 were all contenders......but didn't stop with just the body chopping.

No matter how it was laid out, the rear frame rails width, in comparison to the axle, was an issue, one that would require frenching the rails for coil over placement. Figured that, if cutting, why adapt to the rear frame that's now unecessary for body mounting? Why not chop aft the B pillar, build new rear subframe, that was designed around the suspension?

Dialogue continued and have since abandoned the LX redux, altogether, at least with a wheeler mindset.

The J80 chassis is pretty interesting.

I'm of the opinion that it's the pinnacle of all Cruiser production, since none before or after compare, (105 is merely a 100 body on an 80 chassis, for the argumentative) and the most capable, most durable off road vehicle mass produced.

Overall the chassis is very well built.

Overbuilt, oversized, over engineered.......but expected, since a far departure from the +50 years of predecessors brandishing the name synonymous with tough.

The 112" wheelbase should work well.

Targeting 112-114" and uninhibited by the OE frame, so agree.

I think people over-emphasize the importance of large amounts of articulation...

But it does look cool on a ramp!

In any case you can argue it's marginal but I'd rather have the tires touching the ground than not.

It's documented on some epically porprtioned thread, not really relevant to the thread topic (as if any of this is) but the limitations of the front radius arms preclude any real gains, the rear only marginally improvable, in articulation.

Again, documented somewhere, but if I remember correctly.....

No coils, no shocks, no tires, no front sway bar, with the PS stuffed to bump, left 3-4" DS. Repeating same DS was less.

Now, the argument can be made that the levered vehicle weight would extend beyond, which I agree with, but the missing limiters would further impede, because no more than about a 33" tire could stuff that much without contacting fender, and we ain't talking about running 33s.

The rear was capable of articulating more and opening up did seem to improve rear traction, as the front forced it to articulate, which I perceived to afford better traction with the ability to push when the front couldn't pull.

I have been really impressed with what is happening in with the Jeep JKU crowd. They aftermarket has been bringing some VERY nice shock/spring/bump options to the market in the 0-3" lift range. Overall, the trend isn't about quantity of travel, but rather the QUALITY of the limited amount of travel available in the stock type suspension. It is amazing how fast some of those setups can run in the desert.

Meh.....

image.jpeg


That market is a gold mine for producers.

From the staggering production/sales numbers at a relatively high entry fee, to the high expendable income levels, evidence by numerous uber 'builds' that litter a Target parking lot on any given day.

Buddy has a reknowned, local, domestic differential and axle shop that some Cruiser project of mine has occupied lift time for several concurrent months, during which, I've seen him unload countless crates of uber built Dana and Teraflex axle sets that have $10-12k price tags.

I was at a local off road outlet, a last ditch effort to find leaf bushings, and was talking to the guy who's been at the counter for over twenty years about, and he said there'd been no better time in the history of business, because of the onslaught of craze.

Pointed to three in the parking lot, all with work orders that exceeded $20k, and two still brandished a paper tag.

They sticker ~$35k, assume the low end of the uber builds to average $10k....

Can you imagine the possibilities if the majority of 80s that filled these pages had a $45k budget?

We'll see it someday, but not until full blown restorations are common. For now, the 80 is perceived an economical wheeler, in station wagon form.

That is my general plan on this new car. I will see what stock feels like with a decent amount of weight reduction. Then I will move onto bigger shocks, bumps, straps, etc.....

After years of consternation, my plans recently changed on the Cruiser wheeler to building a frame to suit built suspension, Cruiser body, Cruiser drivetrain, and Cruiser axle innards.

It was painful to do, but by the time the 80 frame was chopped up to accommodate suspension and steering, set up to ensure performance within stringent guidelines, it was the only way possible.
 
No matter how it was laid out, the rear frame rails width, in comparison to the axle, was an issue, one that would require frenching the rails for coil over placement. Figured that, if cutting, why adapt to the rear frame that's now unecessary for body mounting? Why not chop aft the B pillar, build new rear subframe, that was designed around the suspension?

While I agree it could be better if you removed the rear of the frame......how much better would be it be for the time involved. At some point it is going to be easier to just start with a completely blank sheet of paper, but that has its own set of issues.

I am trying to come at this build from the opposite end of things. I am basically wondering how capable a vehicle can be on the stock chassis. My guess is that adding some tire size and belly clearance will cover up most any of the short comings of the stock chassis. My hope is that it will do well off road, but more importantly, do very well on the road. Not just driving around town, but going 80mph down the interstate.

I'm of the opinion that it's the pinnacle of all Cruiser production, since none before or after compare, (105 is merely a 100 body on an 80 chassis, for the argumentative) and the most capable, most durable off road vehicle mass produced.

I would agree. The only things I could find that where basically 'wrong' with the J80 chassis was the lower control arm position. They are just in a bad spot. It will be interesting to see how much I get hung up on them. I have had fleeting ideas about moving them. In the end, I just don't know if it is worth the sacrifice in rear suspension geometry on the road.

Targeting 112-114" and uninhibited by the OE frame, so agree.

I think 110-115 is the sweet spot for a 39-42" tire. Belly clearance and the transition from the belly to the face of the rear tire becomes very important at those lengths.

Meh.....

That market is a gold mine for producers.

I agree, but even with ALL that production, I see very very very few people building them correctly. I am NOT a JK/JKU fanboy at all, swear! It wasn't until recently that I have noticed any JKU's that where built in a way I could appreciate. I am not talking about just throwing a catalog at the car and seeing what sticks, but actually a well thought out and well engineered build.

The short version is, it is amazing how well a 'stock' based vehicle can work with only a small, if any, increase in lift, larger tires, and great quality springs/shocks/bumps. I am not talking about double custom long arm coilover ultra 4 type buildups.

My hope, is that theory should carry over to a J80 chassis also. How good can the J80 be with high quality shocks. Perhaps some modern bumpstop upgrades. Etc.

After years of consternation, my plans recently changed on the Cruiser wheeler to building a frame to suit built suspension, Cruiser body, Cruiser drivetrain, and Cruiser axle innards.

It was painful to do, but by the time the 80 frame was chopped up to accommodate suspension and steering, set up to ensure performance within stringent guidelines, it was the only way possible.

To be critical, why limit yourself to a Cruiser body, drivetrain, or axles? I'm just being honest. I'm not a brand loyal person. I critically look at every part, the cost, and what it can do for me.

To fill in some backstory, this build I am working on now, was a build of opportunity. While I think the J80 chassis has lots of promise, I can be critical and see some of it's flaws. I absolutely lucked into my current chassis. I couldn't even buy a pair of aftermarket locking differentials for what I paid for the entire donor. It only had 107K miles on it when it was lovingly rolled into a soft snowy ditch. The gentleman I purchased it from had already pulled the low mile powertrain to replace high mile unit. It just so happened that this chassis had the locking differential option....how can I pass that kind of deal up!

Cheers.
Brennan
 
I approve this message, although no mention was made of past transgressions in this thread.

I started hitting Darren up over a year before buying the LX as he was running this setup then. He's not a newcomer to the game, by any stretch, commend for making the effort to finally bring across the pond, and fully expect his product to deliver as advertised.

At no point has nor will, anything said counter that.



Not to beat a dead horse.

The differentiation, nor description suit.

What I had and all I've seen in this length are coils with expandable 'dead' coil rungs at the top, that remain dead until the lower coil extends beyond free length (unloads), allowing the dead coils to expand to keep in the bucket.

Packaging a dual rate coil in the minimal distance afforded even a lifted 80, doesn't appear possible, said after a lot of dialogue with a custom coil manufacturer that had four OE coils, on the proverbial bench to formulate that opinion.



The same basic fundamentals apply......better, are inescapable.....be it race built or a Kia.

Truth be told, the coils/shocks are a significant, smaller portion pf the whole, but there's numerous threads serving as gravestones for thousands of dead horses beaten into oblivion, so no point in rehashing here.



You hit one nail on the head.

They'd also be bankrupt offering a $15-20k solve all, do all, fix all ails package, which is why we don't see them marketed, yet what it would cost.

This very small market segment has vocalized their demands, being low entry fee and the market responded accordingly.

Many shudder at utterances of $700 shocks, much less than $350 per corner shocks that do perform as the lesser cost offerings claim to.



Christo's the smartest, most successful businessman in this game. Considering he's one of the straightest shooters I've ever talked to in this entire industry, commendable and more power to him.

I doubt there's much of anything that's produced by Slee, not that it matters, but doubt there's any component of an 80 lift that is, yet there's no shortage of Slee badging on all.

My curiosity was mildly piqued, the extent, because it seems odd to bring a new product offering through a relatively unknown channel in this small specific market.

But none of my business, nor concerns, as I've lifted my last '80'.



Me, too.



It's Delancy. :flipoff2:



None of the products offered are 'engineered', at least not from a holistic perspective.

Nothing is certified viable beyond an individual component of a partial suspension 'kit', and any marketing ploy that claims more than that is a bold lie.

(See above about $15-20k price tag, because that's what it would cost to even shade tree 'engineer' a correct 'kit')

In my case, I did exactly what you all are doing, except a very detailed expectation that anything short of successfully fulfilling was a fail.

After extensively researching the best the market had to offer, I failed.

We live and learn.
All valid points, and....mistake on your username is noted. ;)
I don't argue Christo's knowledge of the vehicles, nor his business expertise and I agree with and appreciate his "straight shooting", it's been helpful several times for me. I have always had much respect for Christo and have used his products. The Slee coils are one product that comes to mind that I would say is produced by him. At least it is produced to his specs and isn't just a licensed product. The Slee shocks are another one although maybe a bit different. They are ADS shocks but produced, again, to Christo's specs and are not "off-the-shelf" offerings.
The shocks being offered by Darren are essentially the same approach, using Icon shocks, built and tuned to Darren's specs.

While Redline may not be as well known as Slee, I would hardly call them "relatively unknown". They've been quite a prominent company in the Cruiser community over that past several years and particularly in the 80 series market recently with their UTE coversion that uses the 80 series chassis. I venture to guess that most 80 series owners are well aware of Redline.
I have no idea of the backstory or reasons that led Darren to partner with Redline vs another company, but the partnership isn't one that causes me any level of concern. Autocraft and Redline are both trusted and respected brands in the cruiser world, even if they are not the biggest.

We definitely agree on the hefty pricetag that would accompany a "complete" fully engineered and fully dialed suspension system. There is just no justification for it to the average consumer and frankly it's a bit overkill for the uses of most consumers. I guess I'm in favor of any manufacturer that will push the limits of an offering that get as close as possible to that goal while still being at a reasonable cost for the market.

It's an interesting conversation for sure.
 
Great information. Definitely interested in learning more about these springs and ordering info as well.
 
'bout time Redline decided to bring this suspension into the USA :)

I special-ordered mine from Darren a year ago. I've put it through ALL sorts of testing...rockcrawling in TX and UT, high-speed runs chasing the Baja 1000, overnight expedition trips with a full load of gear and a RTT, plus daily driving (mostly) on various trips.

I had some concerns when it first went on. The narrow-wind top compressed coils made a TON of noise for a few days until they wore in and settled. Finding my own "sweet spot" with the ICON adjustable shocks took some time. Once I got some notes for where I wanted to set front and rear compression numbers, and once the first week in Moab (EJS 2015) got the coils broken in, it was IMPRESSIVE. Flex is unbelievable. I have no front sway bar, and as part of the package, upgraded my rear bar to the Autocraft new one. This is the FIRST rear sway bar I've not bent within a few days :)

Fully loaded (RTT and all that) I bump the rear compression up and the control change is noticeable. When loaded "light", soften the front and rear a touch for quick rockcrawling response. And on road is great as well.

We "overdrove" a section of blacktop while chasing the Baja 1000 in 2015...like, hairpin 20mph turn at 40mph while passing in the middle of the night - OOPS! The BFG KO2's broke in the rear and drifted just a touch, but the rig never felt uncontrolled. We came into Coco's Corners ON RACE COURSE that night (big ol Lightforce LED's lit our path) and running 30-45mph was very controlled (only got passed by two trophy trucks!). Next day, when we headed north out of Coco's (again on course), we were in the 50-70mph range and catching a little air. Never any issues or concerns, and the suspension setup handled it perfectly (3 adults, one dog, full load of gear)

The ICON's are custom valved and custom sealed (and some other stuff too) per Autocraft's specs. I would like a "tad" more rebound, but overall it's excellent. Rough trail sections (ie: Strike Ravine in Moab) are SO SO much smoother.

Pics are from EJS 2015, MetalCloak brings their CTI out to test suspension flex and hits/fits. The Autocraft suspension did excellent, and the owner was more than impressed that my big wagon scored higher than many of the JK's they had tested. Considering this is a simple bolt-on setup, that's a great testament to the kits capabilities :)

FYI: those are 315 BFG KO2's on 16x8 Raceline Wheels. I have caster correction plates on the front axle, running stock rubber J-arm bushings. All other suspension bushings/links are from ARB USA (their adjustable stuff).

Slinky1.jpg
Slinky2.jpg
Slinky3.jpg
 
'bout time Redline decided to bring this suspension into the USA :)

I special-ordered mine from Darren a year ago. I've put it through ALL sorts of testing...rockcrawling in TX and UT, high-speed runs chasing the Baja 1000, overnight expedition trips with a full load of gear and a RTT, plus daily driving (mostly) on various trips.

I had some concerns when it first went on. The narrow-wind top compressed coils made a TON of noise for a few days until they wore in and settled. Finding my own "sweet spot" with the ICON adjustable shocks took some time. Once I got some notes for where I wanted to set front and rear compression numbers, and once the first week in Moab (EJS 2015) got the coils broken in, it was IMPRESSIVE. Flex is unbelievable. I have no front sway bar, and as part of the package, upgraded my rear bar to the Autocraft new one. This is the FIRST rear sway bar I've not bent within a few days :)

Fully loaded (RTT and all that) I bump the rear compression up and the control change is noticeable. When loaded "light", soften the front and rear a touch for quick rockcrawling response. And on road is great as well.

We "overdrove" a section of blacktop while chasing the Baja 1000 in 2015...like, hairpin 20mph turn at 40mph while passing in the middle of the night - OOPS! The BFG KO2's broke in the rear and drifted just a touch, but the rig never felt uncontrolled. We came into Coco's Corners ON RACE COURSE that night (big ol Lightforce LED's lit our path) and running 30-45mph was very controlled (only got passed by two trophy trucks!). Next day, when we headed north out of Coco's (again on course), we were in the 50-70mph range and catching a little air. Never any issues or concerns, and the suspension setup handled it perfectly (3 adults, one dog, full load of gear)

The ICON's are custom valved and custom sealed (and some other stuff too) per Autocraft's specs. I would like a "tad" more rebound, but overall it's excellent. Rough trail sections (ie: Strike Ravine in Moab) are SO SO much smoother.

Pics are from EJS 2015, MetalCloak brings their CTI out to test suspension flex and hits/fits. The Autocraft suspension did excellent, and the owner was more than impressed that my big wagon scored higher than many of the JK's they had tested. Considering this is a simple bolt-on setup, that's a great testament to the kits capabilities :)

FYI: those are 315 BFG KO2's on 16x8 Raceline Wheels. I have caster correction plates on the front axle, running stock rubber J-arm bushings. All other suspension bushings/links are from ARB USA (their adjustable stuff).

View attachment 1236656 View attachment 1236657 View attachment 1236658
Brian, are you using the supplied bumpstop spacers?
 
Hmm. Okay, baseline for me with OMEs (not Js) is:

Front: 30.75 (ARB bumper + Warn Winch)
DS Rear: 30.5
PS Rear: 30.25 (ARB bumper + a 315 on Factory 16" wheel)

A little over half a tank. Wonder what I would net, another inch-inch 1/2 would be nice before adding sliders and skid plates.
 
.

To be critical, why limit yourself to a Cruiser body, drivetrain, or axles? I'm just being honest. I'm not a brand loyal person. I critically look at every part, the cost, and what it can do for me.

The reason so many Jeep owners run out to get new axles is because of the shortcomings of the OEM ones. If you want to run 35+ off road it's almost a given that, at minimum, even on the rubicons, they should be sleeved and gusseted.
 
Brian, are you using the supplied bumpstop spacers?
I do have front bump spacers installed...no bumps at all in the rear (attempted, broke a bolt due to WI rust, and gave up)

Forgot, I also added a rear coil spacer for another 3/4" in height...with the ridiculous amount of gear I haul and tossing on the RTT, it ended up nose high. I'm a little bit stink-bug with no RTT, but once it goes on and a full load goes in, it levels out perfectly.

And, by full load, there is a complete set of Metric/SAE sockets, complete set of SAE/Metric combination wrenches, complete sets of Metric and SAE impacts, complete tool bag, welder, grinder, cordless impact gun, bead breaker, OBA, CO2, ARB fridge, torque wrench, fluids, knuckle, spindle, and a TON more - literally...I overpack...a lot... I'm JUST now setting up the new shop toolbox, and realized I've not needed anything in 6 months - just pull from the 80 :)
 
I do have front bump spacers installed...no bumps at all in the rear (attempted, broke a bolt due to WI rust, and gave up)

Forgot, I also added a rear coil spacer for another 3/4" in height...with the ridiculous amount of gear I haul and tossing on the RTT, it ended up nose high. I'm a little bit stink-bug with no RTT, but once it goes on and a full load goes in, it levels out perfectly.

And, by full load, there is a complete set of Metric/SAE sockets, complete set of SAE/Metric combination wrenches, complete sets of Metric and SAE impacts, complete tool bag, welder, grinder, cordless impact gun, bead breaker, OBA, CO2, ARB fridge, fluids, knuckle, spindle, and a TON more - literally...I overpack...a lot...
Good info. I have a similar amount of gear, plus 5 people ;) I might hang onto my coil spacers.
Thanks
 
The reason so many Jeep owners run out to get new axles is because of the shortcomings of the OEM ones. If you want to run 35+ off road it's almost a given that, at minimum, even on the rubicons, they should be sleeved and gusseted.

To be fair, I think that issue is blown WAY out of proportion. I have seen people have issues, but frankly it comes from gross abuse more often than not. To see where I am coming from, this was my last project....



It is running an early Dana 30 open knuckle front axle and a Dana 44 rear axle that I converted to full float. I am running HEAVY 35x13.5x15 Krawlers on HEAVY steel beadlock wheels. It has a nice little peppy V6 engine, granny 4spd, deep axle gearing, lockers, blah, blah, blah. I've done all the book trails in Moab multiple times, thousands of miles on the highway, and Ultimate Adventure in 2014 and 2015. It gets used....

Axles....no problems in 4+ years now since I rebuilt the vehicle from the ground up.

I do like the J80 chassis as far as axles go. They have nice fabricated axle housings that seem to hold up well in vehicles that are pushing 6000+lbs. The drop out 3rds are WAY easier to work on. The full float rear axle with disc brakes from the factory is nice. Serviceable wheel bearings in front is a bonus. If I was being critical, you are pretty much limited to a 30 spline shaft and it would be nice if the front axle had a bit larger gear set.

I will be testing the J80 axles for sure. I am running a 40" tire on this new car. My hope if that the final weight of the vehicle is similar to the BASE stock weight of the original vehicle. It will have more power, gearing, and more un-sprung weight bias. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. I do like the packaging and proportions of the J80 chassis. It was VERY neat to figure out that if you totally tool the body out of the equation, a 40" tire on a 3.75" BS 17x9" wheel will clear the radius arm at full lock ( 35 degrees or so ). I will be upgrading the axles with alloy shafts front and back to help things live. I will also be keeping the stock 4.10 gearing since I will have a 1.22 underdrive high range in the transfer case.

Again. I am not brand loyal. I love them all. They all have pluses and minuses. I look at what I can learn from just about every vehicle platform.
 
To be fair, I think that issue is blown WAY out of proportion. I have seen people have issues, but frankly it comes from gross abuse more often than not. To see where I am coming from, this was my last project....



It is running an early Dana 30 open knuckle front axle and a Dana 44 rear axle that I converted to full float. I am running HEAVY 35x13.5x15 Krawlers on HEAVY steel beadlock wheels. It has a nice little peppy V6 engine, granny 4spd, deep axle gearing, lockers, blah, blah, blah. I've done all the book trails in Moab multiple times, thousands of miles on the highway, and Ultimate Adventure in 2014 and 2015. It gets used....

Axles....no problems in 4+ years now since I rebuilt the vehicle from the ground up.

I do like the J80 chassis as far as axles go. They have nice fabricated axle housings that seem to hold up well in vehicles that are pushing 6000+lbs. The drop out 3rds are WAY easier to work on. The full float rear axle with disc brakes from the factory is nice. Serviceable wheel bearings in front is a bonus. If I was being critical, you are pretty much limited to a 30 spline shaft and it would be nice if the front axle had a bit larger gear set.

I will be testing the J80 axles for sure. I am running a 40" tire on this new car. My hope if that the final weight of the vehicle is similar to the BASE stock weight of the original vehicle. It will have more power, gearing, and more un-sprung weight bias. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. I do like the packaging and proportions of the J80 chassis. It was VERY neat to figure out that if you totally tool the body out of the equation, a 40" tire on a 3.75" BS 17x9" wheel will clear the radius arm at full lock ( 35 degrees or so ). I will be upgrading the axles with alloy shafts front and back to help things live. I will also be keeping the stock 4.10 gearing since I will have a 1.22 underdrive high range in the transfer case.

Again. I am not brand loyal. I love them all. They all have pluses and minuses. I look at what I can learn from just about every vehicle platform.

Nice Jeep. I have a TJ and XJ. On the TJ Rubicon I've gone through several front axle shafts before switching to chromo shafts, as well as replacing nearly every flimsy factory control arm/trackbar mount. Rear is trussed. This is all on 33's. Will sleeve and gusset everything up front before pushing 35's or 37's... Likely just 35's because I can upgrade gearing and goto ARBs on the 80 from saving $2000+ on 37" rubber and new 17" wheels.
 
When I was tearing apart my LX450 suspension I found some interesting things.....



#1. There is a LOT of preload on the front coils from the factory. The stock LX450 shocks are about 9.75" travel. The picture above is what the front suspension looks like with VERY little weight on it ( just the frame ) when you unbolt the shocks. The distance from the top of the shock bushing to the shocks mount would all be preload on the factory suspension. If memory serves that would be 2.5-3" of preload ( plus a little for frame weight ) on the factory front suspension.



#2. The same basically holds true for max compressed shock length. This picture is after I pulled the rubber bumpstops completely out of the chassis and set the suspension metal on metal. I could compress the shocks another 1.5" at least. I doubt the suspension could ever be this compressed once the rubber bumpstop was in place, this would be a worst case for sure. If you wanted to get very critical about things the axle could also rotate up or down a bit....

I found a similar situation with the rear suspension with some factory preload and some wasted space for the compressed shock length.

I know that the stock coils are not much use to many of you, especially the lighter LX450 coils, but I found it very interesting. The hope for my current project is that the final vehicle weight (fully built) will be similar to the stock curb weight of a J80 ( 4500lbs?). That should allow for the suspension to be in a location that is very similar to 'stock'.

For me, it is very interesting that I should be able to add shock travel over stock. Stock shock travel is already approaching 10". As a comparison, a new Jeep JKU only has about 8.5" of travel from the factory. It looks like the J80 platform can support almost 10.5-11" of travel and still maintain some preload ( with the stock springs ).
 
While I agree it could be better if you removed the rear of the frame......how much better would be it be for the time involved.

From every perspective, exponentially more......on paper.

We'll see in many months.

My hope is that it will do well off road, but more importantly, do very well on the road. Not just driving around town, but going 80mph down the interstate.

Hope is indicative blind faith, that's it out of your hands.

It's a mandate now, as much as it was when epically failing.

image.jpeg


Expect the unexpected.

To be critical, why limit yourself to a Cruiser body, drivetrain, or axles?

I am nucking futs.

There is no other answer.

I'm not a brand loyal person.

My newest driver is a '97 80, that's not seeing much activity (because she has AC, so time is coming) favoring '89 HZJ73 that's now splitting time with a '76 Pig for DDing duties, with a '78 40 weekender. Wife drives a GX460, although I may sell an organ to put her in a 200, because she actually said she wanted THAT Cruiser.

That's what's on the road, at this moment, others veiled in a cloud plausible deniability.

Started lapping up Cruiser-Aid in '83, so more than brand loyal, I'm a friggin' junkie to a degree it would never surprise me if a film crew from TLCs 'Hoarders' showed at my door.

Logical?

No, but neither is crack and I don't golf.
 
Hope is indicative blind faith, that's it out of your hands.

It's a mandate now, as much as it was when epically failing.

Expect the unexpected.

Let me rephrase, my expectation is that starting with a well performing OEM chassis and keeping it very close to stock, as far as suspension geometry and steering goes, will be a very good place to start from, even with a much larger tire package. My educated guess is that the final weight of my project will be close to the stock curb weight.

The weight bias will likely change a bit. Does anyone know what the stock J80 had for rough corner weights? Was it front heavy, 50/50, or slightly front weight biased. I will also be adding a decent amount of unsprung weight with the tire/wheel change.

Honestly. In all my years of wheeling. I have seen VERY few custom built suspensions that could meet or exceed the performance on an OEM vehicle on the road. Even $250,000 trophy trucks don't do pavement that well. It is all a compromise. My general option is that off road performance is relatively easy to get.....good on road manors are not.
 
When I was tearing apart my LX450 suspension I found some interesting things.....



#1. There is a LOT of preload on the front coils from the factory. The stock LX450 shocks are about 9.75" travel. The picture above is what the front suspension looks like with VERY little weight on it ( just the frame ) when you unbolt the shocks. The distance from the top of the shock bushing to the shocks mount would all be preload on the factory suspension. If memory serves that would be 2.5-3" of preload ( plus a little for frame weight ) on the factory front suspension.



#2. The same basically holds true for max compressed shock length. This picture is after I pulled the rubber bumpstops completely out of the chassis and set the suspension metal on metal. I could compress the shocks another 1.5" at least. I doubt the suspension could ever be this compressed once the rubber bumpstop was in place, this would be a worst case for sure. If you wanted to get very critical about things the axle could also rotate up or down a bit....

I found a similar situation with the rear suspension with some factory preload and some wasted space for the compressed shock length.

I know that the stock coils are not much use to many of you, especially the lighter LX450 coils, but I found it very interesting. The hope for my current project is that the final vehicle weight (fully built) will be similar to the stock curb weight of a J80 ( 4500lbs?). That should allow for the suspension to be in a location that is very similar to 'stock'.

For me, it is very interesting that I should be able to add shock travel over stock. Stock shock travel is already approaching 10". As a comparison, a new Jeep JKU only has about 8.5" of travel from the factory. It looks like the J80 platform can support almost 10.5-11" of travel and still maintain some preload ( with the stock springs ).

Good research.
Sad to say shocks on most 2" to 3" lifts are approx the same length as stock shocks or a tad more because the lifted coils are shorter in free height than stock 80 coils. (This is what the current market has to offer.) Only 3" to 6" lifts offer a shock that is approx 1.5" to 2" longer of stroke because the's coils are taller in free height.

Believe it or not, a stock 80 series spring has a taller free height than most other lifted springs even up to 4" of lift. There are some coils that do offer a taller free height than most, but are also very tall in lift height ie. OME Comp coils.

So, this has been the delima... people have been running the longer shocks to get more travel & have had to deal with coils coming loose in the buckets/perches or have had to go with a taller stiffer suspension than need.
Heavily loaded 80's haven't had much trouble with this, but it's the lightly loaded 80's that have been stuck with purchasing a heavy stiff lift because the market has nothing else to offer till now.

Low COG is the way to go in these big heavy pigs. A 3" lift with a 12" stroke shock that fits in the confines of stock mounts & bump stops is like near Impossible without major mods till now.

Darren M. @AutoCraft Aus I officially welcome you & your Slinky/ICON longer travel suspension to the USA. May it welcome you with arms wide open.
 
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Good research.
Sad to say shocks on most 2" to 3" lifts are approx the same length as stock shocks or a tad more. This is what the current market has to offer. Only 3" to 6" lifts offer a shock that is approx 1.5" to 2" longer of stroke. Believe it or not, a stock 80 series spring has a taller free height than most other lifted springs even up to 4" of lift.

That is what I was finding during my research. Other than being too soft for heavy J80s, I can't find anything 'bad' about the stock springs for the most part. I know I am a very odd case, but it seems to be working out well so far for me. It looks like I will be able to maintain some preload on the springs with about a 10.5-11" travel shock if I can find some that will fit without the need for bumpstop spacers....

I'm actually worried about the stock rear LX450 coils being too stiff! They are suppose to be about a 150lb/in rate? Does anyone know if there is a lighter rate option from something else? 4runner maybe?
 

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