80 series Slinky/ICON Long Travel Suspension officially coming to the U.S.A.

[AutoCraft Aus]

Interesting project, not unlike some previous ones you have done either.

Lighter than OE coils dont swap out of anything else, and unless the vehicle is stock empty no rear seats etc, and no spare wheel, I think you will find they wont be enough.

Of course our biggest market is "overlanding" so we can fit out Cruisers with 8000-9500lb total weight on 35s, fully fitted up, too.

10-11" stroke shocks will work with original brake lines and sway bar brackets, just, diff breather will need to be a bit longer, and keep the coils captive, just. Add a good monotube high gas pressure shock would help with stability, as the 80s tend to rock and roll with the standard coils if the shocks arent good, and the std sway bar. They also tend to bobble front to back when coil rates are similar each end.

80s also tend to work the front bumstops hard, with the low spring rate they have, especially with dual batteries winch and bar all mounted up front, and the big 6 hanging over the front axle a little. I like to be able to hit stuff sometimes without having to react to the bump stop reaction. Due to the front being a little restrictive to lots of articulation, heavier front softer rear works well in an 80 in my experience.

I had an 80 here that was going to be a similar built to yours, wit 40" tyres, and I was going to use our slinky long travel set up in the truck, with 12" stroke front, and 14" rear but cut the coil mounts and shock mounts off and move them up so the standard bump stop position was used as the start point. Cutting the rear tubs and raising the floor a little would of fitted the tyres, kept the drawers and storage in place, and instead of 70mm lift we would of been 0 lift, with 1/3 up travel and 2/3 down.

Since then, we went back to the bolt in a frame rear uppers, and we are working on 17" stroke rear shocks with longer lower links for better drive, and less roll steer, on 70mm lift, with higher mounts and just 2 hols in the floor that are sealed to outside. We are developing some new Super Slinky coils to work with these 17" stroke shocks and stay captive with the longer arms and a frame top mount which eliminates the panhard rod as well.

In the front we are working on keeping the 12" stroke set up and slinky coils, with most likely a 5 link set up, or modified X link to keep on road manners.

2 big things we do for on road stability is to add negative camber to the front axle, for bigger tyres, and at least 3 degree caster. I like to run 3/4 degree at least neg camber to make the front pointy, and with good high pressure monotube shocks, and a heavier rear sway bar to help with roll steer, turn blend lanes at traffic lights jumping the kerbs while over GVM, or 2 wheeling it over roundabouts while throwing the truck around arent scary propositions for anyone but the passenger

For bigger tyres, we also move the front axle forward an inch, and can get another 3/8 inch from the offset bushes we use.

We have also done a coil over and bypass set up for the 80 front, using 12" stroke 70mm lift, to run differing coil rates, for more control with our slinky long travel 12" stroke bypass rears.

Currently building my 21st 80 series, which I should start a build thread on, a 97 40th Ann turbo intercooled petrol version, with bypasses, 35s, injected lpg, and all the usual stuff.

 

[Mieser]

Interesting project, not unlike some previous ones you have done either.

Thank you. This is a great post. I love knowledge dumps of information and history! Good stuff.

Lighter than OE coils dont swap out of anything else, and unless the vehicle is stock empty no rear seats etc, and no spare wheel, I think you will find they wont be enough.

Just to clarify....



I am building a 'hybrid' of sorts. While I am using the LX450 chassis, I am building a completely different body for the chassis. It is going to be an FJ45-esk pickup tub with custom aluminum front fenders, top, doors, and small step-side bed. I also don't have the original powertrain. I will be running a 2013 GM 5.3 LC9 all aluminum engine with a 6L80E 6-spd automatic transmission and a Land Rover LT230 transfer case.

Rough guess. The finished sprung weight of this vehicle should be LESS than a stock LX450. I will get some 'starting' corner weights when I pull it off the engine table.

10-11" stroke shocks will work with original brake lines and sway bar brackets, just, diff breather will need to be a bit longer, and keep the coils captive, just. Add a good monotube high gas pressure shock would help with stability, as the 80s tend to rock and roll with the standard coils if the shocks arent good, and the std sway bar. They also tend to bobble front to back when coil rates are similar each end.

80s also tend to work the front bumstops hard, with the low spring rate they have, especially with dual batteries winch and bar all mounted up front, and the big 6 hanging over the front axle a little. I like to be able to hit stuff sometimes without having to react to the bump stop reaction. Due to the front being a little restrictive to lots of articulation, heavier front softer rear works well in an 80 in my experience.

Good info. What is the longest shock I can fit in the stock rear suspension with stock bumpstops?

I will be running a WARN 8274 on the front, but it will be behind and sunken behind a minimal FJ40-ish front bumper. I moved the new engine back pretty far in the chassis. The crank pulley is right over the front axle. The engine is also all aluminum. It looks like I will be able to cut off a decent amount of front frame also. I positioned the grille JUST in front of the steering box.

2 big things we do for on road stability is to add negative camber to the front axle, for bigger tyres, and at least 3 degree caster. I like to run 3/4 degree at least neg camber to make the front pointy, and with good high pressure monotube shocks, and a heavier rear sway bar to help with roll steer, turn blend lanes at traffic lights jumping the kerbs while over GVM, or 2 wheeling it over roundabouts while throwing the truck around arent scary propositions for anyone but the passenger

Good information. That gives me a decent baseline to work from. How does the negative camber effect tire wear on larger tires? Stock caster spec's out at 3-4 degrees? I won't be running any 'lift' on this chassis really so that should get me close.

For bigger tyres, we also move the front axle forward an inch, and can get another 3/8 inch from the offset bushes we use.

That is a neat trick! On mine I got to put the body where ever I wanted. The 40s clear lock to lock with no problem. I was very surprised that the 63" wide front axle and stock radius arm suspension allowed full steering to lock with the 40" tires ( on a 3.75" BS, 17x9 wheel ).

Thank you again for passing on all your knowledge!

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Rough guess. The finished sprung weight of this vehicle should be LESS than a stock LX450. I will get some 'starting' corner weights when I pull it off the engine table.

We did a TJ for a customer with long arm kit and coil overs with Nissan patrol axles and brakes, and swapped the axle tubes in the front to swap the pumkin to the other side, on 37s years ago, and with winch and wheel carrier we ended up with 140lb primary to 200 secondary on 14s on that, with LS1, 65E auto and Atlas t case. We started at 130 lb originally, was a tad soft with the 37 on the back. [ A rare occasion in time, for me to be working on a JEEP !]

Good info. What is the longest shock I can fit in the stock rear suspension with stock bumpstops?

15.5 " or 395mm I think is the longest compressed which will get you around 10.5" stroke.

If you have the room like an 80 of around 50mm to the floor, you could raise the rear mount 30mm - 40mm and then our 12" stroke shock would fit in the compressed length, for more down travel. We use a 30mm longer bump stop for our kits normally, so bigger tyres clear on an 80, and our compressed length fits.

In the front 404mm I think is max length, and we get a 12" stroke shock into there as well with no bump spacer.

Off the top of my head 580mm front and 540mm rear free height required for that stroke but rear would be less if shock moved up.

[edit, all above can depend on year model too, with earlier pre aug 92 models having 3/4" taller ride height and longer bumstops, compared to the wide flare models.]

You would need to extend the rear sway bar links around 70mm. Early pre 91 80s here had thinner sway bars which would probably work well on that set up of yours. [well they did here in Aus]

I will be running a WARN 8274 on the front, but it will be behind and sunken behind a minimal FJ40-ish front bumper. I moved the new engine back pretty far in the chassis. The crank pulley is right over the front axle. The engine is also all aluminum. It looks like I will be able to cut off a decent amount of front frame also. I positioned the JUST in front of the steering box.

Once you have had a Highmount, you cant go back. Even my Desert Tourer had to have one, I dont think theres to many hairdressers trucks that have one on the front though

I built a 40 for myself on 38s in about 1998 where I used a LS7 454, and did a similar thing, moved the engine etc back around 3" for a 50/50 weight set up, with Bronco variable ratio steering box, 60 springs, 60 housings for width, shackle to the rear in the front, spigotted in the chassis like a Hilux, 4 wheel disc brakes, and cut the fenders to make room, with spare on the floor in the back for less weight impact than on the rear, and a 37 gallon tank under the seats, batteries on the floor behind the seats, and a Warn 8274 on the front. Had custom made Bilsteins on it back then, and I fiddled with the 60 leaves for better ride, and redrilled the centre bolt holes with the 60 leaf set up to get 98" wheelbase. Used to do 100 mph on 10 psi flat out on the way home from night drives back then, the hum of swampers, and a screaming LS7 on back roads has had a long term impact on my hearing I think LOL.

Good information. That gives me a decent baseline to work from. How does the negative camber effect tire wear on larger tires? Stock caster spec's out at 3-4 degrees? I won't be running any 'lift' on this chassis really so that should get me close.

My driving style sees the outside lugs cop a hiding in the front, so with some neg camber its now limited, and turns in rather than understeers. Our IFS suspension set ups when we align them we go 10-20 minutes neg camber [.2 aprox] 45 minutes for me, but would like some more. Testing some rear coils last few days, with current 45 minute neg camber, 3 deg caster, the tyres are getting worked hard at 40 psi. [35s] using some of the sidewall when turning, jumping kerbs, and roundabouts.

Thank you again for passing on all your knowledge!

Your welcome.

 

[gfox777]

Interesting project, not unlike some previous ones you have done either.

Lighter than OE coils dont swap out of anything else, and unless the vehicle is stock empty no rear seats etc, and no spare wheel, I think you will find they wont be enough.

Of course our biggest market is "overlanding" so we can fit out Cruisers with 8000-9500lb total weight on 35s, fully fitted up, too.

10-11" stroke shocks will work with original brake lines and sway bar brackets, just, diff breather will need to be a bit longer, and keep the coils captive, just. Add a good monotube high gas pressure shock would help with stability, as the 80s tend to rock and roll with the standard coils if the shocks arent good, and the std sway bar. They also tend to bobble front to back when coil rates are similar each end.

80s also tend to work the front bumstops hard, with the low spring rate they have, especially with dual batteries winch and bar all mounted up front, and the big 6 hanging over the front axle a little. I like to be able to hit stuff sometimes without having to react to the bump stop reaction. Due to the front being a little restrictive to lots of articulation, heavier front softer rear works well in an 80 in my experience.

I had an 80 here that was going to be a similar built to yours, wit 40" tyres, and I was going to use our slinky long travel set up in the truck, with 12" stroke front, and 14" rear but cut the coil mounts and shock mounts off and move them up so the standard bump stop position was used as the start point. Cutting the rear tubs and raising the floor a little would of fitted the tyres, kept the drawers and storage in place, and instead of 70mm lift we would of been 0 lift, with 1/3 up travel and 2/3 down.

Since then, we went back to the bolt in a frame rear uppers, and we are working on 17" stroke rear shocks with longer lower links for better drive, and less roll steer, on 70mm lift, with higher mounts and just 2 hols in the floor that are sealed to outside. We are developing some new Super Slinky coils to work with these 17" stroke shocks and stay captive with the longer arms and a frame top mount which eliminates the panhard rod as well.

In the front we are working on keeping the 12" stroke set up and slinky coils, with most likely a 5 link set up, or modified X link to keep on road manners.

2 big things we do for on road stability is to add negative camber to the front axle, for bigger tyres, and at least 3 degree caster. I like to run 3/4 degree at least neg camber to make the front pointy, and with good high pressure monotube shocks, and a heavier rear sway bar to help with roll steer, turn blend lanes at traffic lights jumping the kerbs while over GVM, or 2 wheeling it over roundabouts while throwing the truck around arent scary propositions for anyone but the passenger

For bigger tyres, we also move the front axle forward an inch, and can get another 3/8 inch from the offset bushes we use.

We have also done a coil over and bypass set up for the 80 front, using 12" stroke 70mm lift, to run differing coil rates, for more control with our slinky long travel 12" stroke bypass rears.

Currently building my 21st 80 series, which I should start a build thread on, a 97 40th Ann turbo intercooled petrol version, with bypasses, 35s, injected lpg, and all the usual stuff.

Darren,

What springs would you recommend for a 4" lift and an 80 that is heavy? I have a kaymar rear, ARB front w/ 12lb winch, rooftop tent, drawers etc. My build is full expedition. A while I was part of a group buy on some custom built fox shocks. It sounds like the slinky springs could provide the softer ride while out and about town, and then stiffen up quite a bit when offroad. If you have the springs or are bringing them in, any idea on cost? I am just about to pick up the rest of the items that I need for my suspension rebuild and could hold off on getting the springs. Thank you!

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

The front slinkies work well for an overlanding 80, and our 880lb rear HD slinkies work with storage rear bar and long range tank, and if its over 9000 lb we have a 1300lb rear coil that sits 30mm [1 1/4"] higher for same weight on an overlanding truck.

We also have a 2000lb constant load 70mm coil for vehicles between 10,000 and 10,600lb with the slinky long travel kits for 80 as well as the 100 and the 200.

In Aus we have afew rules regarding G.V.M etc, and with our UCAs and suspension kit we have a 9250 lb [4200kg] with some rear diff housing mods through one of our dealers engineered for the 200 series at the moment federally.

Overlanding, heavy touring is what we do here, and what we specialize in.

The ideal part of the slinky upper wind is when the vehicle has alot of travel operating, the wheel can move with minimal spring pressure [aprox 160lb] without the vehicle being rocked around because its on the super heavy rate the whole time the wheel is drooped.

We also tend to make our coils a bit softer in rate, but taller free height, so when the vehicle is unloaded it rides more nicely with comfort from the rear, but comes back to the required height at its weight rated numbers.

So the right set up can be achieved with the amount of combinations we have.

 

[Mieser]

We did a TJ for a customer with long arm kit and coil overs with Nissan patrol axles and brakes, and swapped the axle tubes in the front to swap the pumkin to the other side, on 37s years ago, and with winch and wheel carrier we ended up with 140lb primary to 200 secondary on 14s on that, with LS1, 65E auto and Atlas t case. We started at 130 lb originally, was a tad soft with the 37 on the back. [ A rare occasion in time, for me to be working on a JEEP !]

That sounds fun. It will be interesting to see how heavy this car ends up being. LX450 rear coils are about 150lbs/in? I think that should be in the ballpark at least. I will be fighting the standard battle against loaded vs unloaded weight. I will also be moving the fuel tank to behind the rear axle. Once I get this thing off the table I will start tracking corner weights as I build.....

15.5 " or 395mm I think is the longest compressed which will get you around 10.5" stroke.

If you have the room like an 80 of around 50mm to the floor, you could raise the rear mount 30mm - 40mm and then our 12" stroke shock would fit in the compressed length, for more down travel. We use a 30mm longer bump stop for our kits normally, so bigger tyres clear on an 80, and our compressed length fits.

In the front 404mm I think is max length, and we get a 12" stroke shock into there as well with no bump spacer.

Good info. In general. The floor of the bed I am building for the truck will be sitting right on top of the rear coil spring towers. I was looking at the rear shock mounts last night. It does looks like I could raise the upper rear shock mount pretty easy. Even just unbolting the stock mounting bracket and moving it above the sub-frame would gain me about 1/2" of compressed length pretty easy.

Off the top of my head 580mm front and 540mm rear free height required for that stroke but rear would be less if shock moved up.

[edit, all above can depend on year model too, with earlier pre aug 92 models having 3/4" taller ride height and longer bumstops, compared to the wide flare models.]

I need to measure my stock springs. I am using a 1996 LX450 chassis.

You would need to extend the rear sway bar links around 70mm. Early pre 91 80s here had thinner sway bars which would probably work well on that set up of yours. [well they did here in Aus]

With the swaybar links, is that to keep the bar from limiting the suspension at full droop? I will be running basically no lift if I can help it.

Good tip on the swaybar, it is nice to have some options. The back of this car will not have any weight up high. It will just have a small aluminum bed/fenders, fuel tank behind the axle, no bulky rear bumper, spare tire carried flat in the bed.

Once you have had a Highmount, you cant go back. Even my Desert Tourer had to have one, I dont think theres to many hairdressers trucks that have one on the front though

I agree. The belleview, 8200, 8274, and other variants are worth running if you have the space!

My driving style sees the outside lugs cop a hiding in the front, so with some neg camber its now limited, and turns in rather than understeers. Our IFS suspension set ups when we align them we go 10-20 minutes neg camber [.2 aprox] 45 minutes for me, but would like some more. Testing some rear coils last few days, with current 45 minute neg camber, 3 deg caster, the tyres are getting worked hard at 40 psi. [35s] using some of the sidewall when turning, jumping kerbs, and roundabouts.

Again, good info, thank you for posting.

 

[gfox777]

The front slinkies work well for an overlanding 80, and our 880lb rear HD slinkies work with storage rear bar and long range tank, and if its over 9000 lb we have a 1300lb rear coil that sits 30mm [1 1/4"] higher for same weight on an overlanding truck.

We also have a 2000lb constant load 70mm coil for vehicles between 10,000 and 10,600lb with the slinky long travel kits for 80 as well as the 100 and the 200.

In Aus we have afew rules regarding G.V.M etc, and with our UCAs and suspension kit we have a 9250 lb [4200kg] with some rear diff housing mods through one of our dealers engineered for the 200 series at the moment federally.

Overlanding, heavy touring is what we do here, and what we specialize in.

The ideal part of the slinky upper wind is when the vehicle has alot of travel operating, the wheel can move with minimal spring pressure [aprox 160lb] without the vehicle being rocked around because its on the super heavy rate the whole time the wheel is drooped.

We also tend to make our coils a bit softer in rate, but taller free height, so when the vehicle is unloaded it rides more nicely with comfort from the rear, but comes back to the required height at its weight rated numbers.

So the right set up can be achieved with the amount of combinations we have.

Thank you for the info Darren. I look forward to checking these out when they make it stateside.

 

[jcardona1]

What am I looking at here? Quite interesting. Is this essentially a triangulated upper rear link on a uniball? What'd you do with the lowers? Any pics?

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

What am I looking at here? Quite interesting. Is this essentially a triangulated upper rear link on a uniball? What'd you do with the lowers? Any pics?

With the 17" stroke rear set up we are working on, this trial upper a frame bolts into the existing upper arm points, and removes the need for a panhard rod, and stops the bind from it and the shorter upper arms. Working on another version to move the rear point up and back to make for longer uppers and help with drive traction by raising the rear mounts.

The lowers we do a 8" longer lower arm, to again help with drive traction by getting the arms intersecting points out in front of the truck and closer to the ground when lifted.

This is a 79 series we converted to Cruiser coil rear end, but the longer arms and moving the front arm mounts to outside the chassis also help to reduce roll steer while doing this.

@Mieser we have made these mounts with countersunk allen bolt to fit into 80 rear before, without mods, for extra height on compressed shock length and bush top to limit shaft loading.

 

[GW Nugget]

OK Darren @AutoCraft Aus it's time for action... let's see some of this drifting 70 mph going off curbs & round abouts lifting tyres etc...
Got Vids?
The old say goes "No picture, then it never happened"
The new saying goes the same "No vid, then it never happened"
Just Saying....
Let's have some fun....

 

[GW Nugget]

I asked Dylan, but you would know also Darren. Is it possible to have a 28" AutoCraft spec in a ICON Stage 1 shock or is only in the resi set up? Would the body be to big to fit within the stock bump stops?

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

You can only go about 712mm [28"] long with the gas and piston in the shock, which we have in 2.0, but didnt do smoothie in 2.5 because you lose the adjust ability of the awesome CDC the way it works, and no bump zone, so because we fit heavier trucks that can change weights by a fair amount, we though they were required.

Will see what can be done with vids without getting arrested

Afew off the top of my head getting used, it has to drive nicely on 35s or 37s and handle to be fun to push.

Rocky slippery climbs.
http://vid243.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/assassin_offroad/darren1-1.mp4

Product testing on our test track along the train line.

Dirt outback tracks 9000 lb, 37s supercharged over 250km

100 mph.

 

[Mieser]

Will see what can be done with vids without getting arrested

Dirt outback tracks 9000 lb, 37s supercharged over 250km

Seeing how hard and long you have pushed the 80 series chassis, what are the weak links?

 

[GW Nugget]

Thanks Darren... I don't want to see get arrested.

You can only go about 712mm [28"] long with the gas and piston in the shock, which we have in 2.0, but didnt do smoothie in 2.5 because you lose the adjust ability of the awesome CDC the way it works, and no bump zone, so because we fit heavier trucks that can change weights by a fair amount, we though they were required.

Will this 2.0 none resi shock compress within the stock bump stops in front?
What is the comp. length?
Is it under 16"?

 

[GW Nugget]

Wait a second.
I just converted 250 km... that's 155.343 mph.
155.343 mph NO WAY!

 

[steven17]

250 km driven, not km/h

 

[GW Nugget]

@DylanICON Will the 12" stroke none resi AutoCraft spec ICON Stage 1 fit within the confines of the front stock bump stops or is it only in the resi set up that fits? Meaning the 28" long shock with 12" of stroke. Will it fit without adding a bumpstop puck?

 

[DylanICON]

@DylanICON Will the 12" stroke none resi AutoCraft spec ICON Stage 1 fit within the confines of the front stock bump stops or is it only in the resi set up that fits? Meaning the 28" long shock with 12" of stroke. Will it fit without adding a bumpstop puck?

the longer 2.0 IFP we make for 4-6" lifts are:

16.850 / 28.170" front
16.850 / 27.420" rear

these would require bump stop spacers, but not much

 

[jkdowty]

So the real question is who do I call about getting a set of slinkies and the rest of the parts I need for a lift? Looking to do 3" lift over stock height partially for clearance with my 5.3 and 4l60e still pricing lifts but after seeing the air you grabbed in an 80 I'm sold on the autocraft set up!

 

[GW Nugget]

So the real question is who do I call about getting a set of slinkies and the rest of the parts I need for a lift? Looking to do 3" lift over stock height partially for clearance with my 5.3 and 4l60e still pricing lifts but after seeing the air you grabbed in an 80 I'm sold on the autocraft set up!

For Slinky/ICON it's Redline Cruiser @RLMS Justin is the man to contact. I don't have the number off the top of my head.