60 Series Axle swap with the Trail Tailor Coil Conversion

[BurntToast]

Oh awesome! I saw amazon basics has a butyl sound deadener now thats got good reviews, but i needed to find the second foam layer from somewhere. Ill check this place out!

I used MLV from these guys

Luxury Liner Pro™ MLV + Foam Auto Sound Barrier Sheets

Get the best mass loaded vinyl and heat insulation barrier for your car. When used with Second Skin Audio sound deadening, any car can be a luxury vehicle.

www.secondskinaudio.com

 

[tmxmotorsports]

I used MLV from these guys

Luxury Liner Pro™ MLV + Foam Auto Sound Barrier Sheets

Get the best mass loaded vinyl and heat insulation barrier for your car. When used with Second Skin Audio sound deadening, any car can be a luxury vehicle.

www.secondskinaudio.com

Check out what I mentioned.

 

[BurntToast]

Check out what I mentioned.

Posted at the same time haha

 

[Roonie]

I used MLV from these guys

Luxury Liner Pro™ MLV + Foam Auto Sound Barrier Sheets

Get the best mass loaded vinyl and heat insulation barrier for your car. When used with Second Skin Audio sound deadening, any car can be a luxury vehicle.

www.secondskinaudio.com

I heard 54 sq ft will work with this stuff. I am about to buy it as well and install. I have my new carpet, new seatbelts going with retractable rears, and going to soundproof it all while replacing the carpet.

 

[BurntToast]

I heard 54 sq ft will work with this stuff. I am about to buy it as well and install. I have my new carpet, new seatbelts going with retractable rears, and going to soundproof it all while replacing the carpet.

Getting way off topic but, which retractable rears are you going with? I want to do the same

 

[Roonie]

Getting way off topic but, which retractable rears are you going with? I want to do the same

Sorry for off topic but answering question........I went to seatbelt planet and bought their front and rears that retract. Also found the unicorn OEM trim piece made in the 89/90 FJ62 for retractable seat belts.

 

[Spook50]

Sorry for off topic but answering question........I went to seatbelt planet and bought their front and rears that retract. Also found the unicorn OEM trim piece made in the 89/90 FJ62 for retractable seat belts.

View attachment 3608706

My OEM rear belts are in good shape but my fronts are going to need replacing within the next couple years. Thanks for reminding me where they come from

 

[dbbowen]

Sorry for off topic but answering question........I went to seatbelt planet and bought their front and rears that retract. Also found the unicorn OEM trim piece made in the 89/90 FJ62 for retractable seat belts.

View attachment 3608706

I was able to get all of the rear retracting seat belt and trim pieces from a fj62 from Brooke Carr in Tennessee. My entire setup is from the same 62

 

[dbbowen]

I feel like this thread has been a debbie downer lately so ive got some drive reports for the full front and rear coil springs.

Yesterday i feel like is the first day i was just driving my truck along and not thinking in the back of my mind and listening to a hawk for noises or weird stuff with the swap. I wrapped a blanket over my trans shifter and drowned out the tcase whine and just drove the truck and it is absolutely dialed now as far as 2wd is concerned.

I get some driveline vibration still at 85mph which sucks but i still need to work that out some.


Steering - dialed. Im at about 5 or so degrees of caster. Steering stabilizer is installed. Not going to lie. I drove the truck for 2 weeks without the stabilizer on and once i installed it, i cant really tell any difference at all. Steering was tight before and after the stabilizer was installed. With the 5* caster the return to center is super good. No noises no clunks nothing. Just feels like normal steering. There is less dead slop in the steering now and it feels overall way tighter compared to the leafs and 60 steering

Suspension - The suspension doesnt squeak anymore, and the drive is just great. The main difference between the leafs and these coils is the initial movement of the suspension. That first few seconds when you hit a bump is so much softer than the leafs. You also dont have your leaf bushings moving when you steer or turn so the vehicle is way more predictable in how it handles.

The Dobinsons MRR shocks are pretty nice. I was expecting something a little different, but for what you get they are great. The Compression circuits are tied to each other much more than the MTB shocks i am used to.... So a change in high speed compression is also a change in low speed. On mtb shocks this is still true but they are less codependent on each other. Especially coil shocks like Fox DHX2 and the Push elevensix. The push elevensix actually has each circuit completely independent of each other and is a dream to set up

Every time you adjust high speed, youve kinda got to adjust low speed as well. Im kind of at a spot right now where im teetering on comfort vs body roll. If i open the high speed up any more the truck literally lifts up when i start at a red light and sways with the steering. So ive got the high speed set a little more firm than im used to with the bikes. A bit before it gets too sway-ey in normal driving. The low speed I have set pretty firm to combat the sway and body rise and tilt with acceleration and braking. The shocks are weird, the low speed changes less for those two things than the high speed, but they are low shaft speed events. Every shock and even the dobinsons manual says low speed compression controls body roll and vehicle lift on acceleration, but these shocks do not have enough low speed compression in them to do that. Even fully closed... So you have to run more high speed than youd want to increase the amount of low speed since they are tied together. Im still trying to get the shock valving figured out. On the bikes i normally set the high speed pretty firm for support on big hits and the low speed pretty open for small bump compliance and rebound as fast as it will go... but that approach isnt the best with these shocks. im getting there though. Ive got to run the rebound way slower than i was originally thinking.

I can feel my rear end slightly wanting to wander under WOT and sometimes turning into parking lots, I need to raise my rear panhard mount on the back axle to flatten it out some. Ive fixed this same issue on a lot of 5th gen 4runners. Easy fix.

Brakes - Still not used to how good they are. I didnt do anythign special for the brakes. just oem stuff. They are absurdly good.


Overall Still super super happy i did this swap. Ironing out the small stuff is annoying but you just got to chip away at it. The rear full float hubs sticking out of the rear wheels looks awesome too haha





Still left to do

- Find forklift and flex truck to measure bump stops to keep tires out of the fenders.
- Cut a half inch off of the metal tech upper control arms (theyre too long) and move the entire rear axle forward 3/8-1/2 inch. Ive got the metaltech uppers completely adjusted in and have been adjusting pinion angle with the lowers.
- weld a bracket to the frame for my home made front sway bar quick disconnects.
- Fix front driveshaft angle... which means also re adjusting my rear driveshaft angle.
- ditch twin stick tcase shifter setup and go back to the stock toyota double rubber boot for better sound muffling


After lifting the front of my truck to level it out, My front tcase output angle changed a lot. Currently my front pinion angle is pointed -1.3* up (pointing at the tcase). This is mostly from the caster plates. My truck was origionally 1-2 inches too low in the front so the tcase was pointed way down and matched the pinion angle really well. Lifting the front of the truck brought the tcase output up, and also when i recentered my transmission and tcase i had to drop it down 3/16 or so with the temporary crossmember brackets. These two things made my front tcase output point up 4.8 degrees ... so the angles are pointing in opposite directions. They are also 4.something* out from each other. This makes the front drive shaft sound like its going to explode when you are driving in 4 high over 25 mph


Ive got to cut off my current trans mount, and mount the trans/tcase about a half inch higher in the back to try and get the front pinion angles good. If i can get the front tcase output flange to be 2* or so i think it will be within the 3* of operating angle needed for the single ujoints. That also means ill need to readjust the rear pinion angle to match the rear output of the tcase, but i have adjustable arms for that. Ive been needing to redo my trans crossmember anyways because it looks like s*** compared to the ones i built for other people so this is kinda a need to do thing.

Unfortunately i dont think i can run a double cardon front driveshaft up front due to the tight spacing on the 4l60e trans pan.

 

[dbbowen]

Truck has been driving really well. Ive driven it to the Oregon coast a few times on the beach and up to Mt Hood. Still need to finish up some last projects before its first wheeling test run. I did finally get some time to do some more fine tuning though.

The Metal Tech upper control arms are too long. I had to have the uppers adjusted in as far as they would go and then adjust my pinion angle with the lowers, so to get proper pinion angle... the rear axle was sitting too far back in the wheel arches. I pulled the JJs out and noticed the threads go pretty deep so i cut about 25mm off the ends of them.

My tires needed to come forward in the wheel well a little bit to keep the tire out of my fender at flex and with the uppers adjusted all the way in, i was pretty much fully extended on my lowers and it was kind of loose feeling since i was getting flex out of the Johnny Joints, and the threaded portion was sticking so far out of the lower control arms.

Also with the lowers extended all the way out, the coils were rubbing inside of the coil buckets on the rearmost side creating a squeak since the axle was pushed back which also pushed the springs back as well.

The jam nut was seized on here. I put loctite on the nut and could not get it to budge. The weight of a 100 series held it enough to get my pipe wrench on there and get it unstuck. This was before i cut the upper arms. You can see that i have the joint in as far as it will possibly go. Also my vise is broken

Chopping the ends off

My bandsaw is due for a readjustment i think

This is after i moved the axle forward about a half an inch or so.

The axle travels rearward and extends the wheelbase slightly as it goes up on this suspension setup. Its part of what makes it comfortable compared to leafs. Set up like this, 100% of the squeaks are gone, the truck feels a little bit more stable, and i can adjust pinion with my uppers and have my lowers locked in this position for the forseeable future.

 

[dbbowen]

I think the last things to do are switch back to the oem shifter i got from @TRAIL TAILOR with the stock double boot to cut down on road noise, which involves splitting the case... AGAIN... Triple checking the trans output shaft cut length for my tcase whine while its apart, and then building out my permanent trans crossmember because the Advance adapters garbage one on there now was always supposed to be temporary.

I also want to try and lift my Transfer case up some if i can to help with the front drive shaft angles. My front pinion is pointed up a little too high since i have a little bit too much caster, so I get a ton of vibrations in 4 high. If i can tilt the tcase up a little bit it will point the front tcase output down a little bit. Ideally i can get it within 3* of the pinion. Might need to do some massaging of the floorboard to get it up higher

 

[BurntToast]

I think the last things to do are switch back to the oem shifter i got from @TRAIL TAILOR with the stock double boot to cut down on road noise, which involves splitting the case... AGAIN... Triple checking the trans output shaft cut length for my tcase whine while its apart, and then building out my permanent trans crossmember because the Advance adapters garbage one on there now was always supposed to be temporary.

I also want to try and lift my Transfer case up some if i can to help with the front drive shaft angles. My front pinion is pointed up a little too high since i have a little bit too much caster, so I get a ton of vibrations in 4 high. If i can tilt the tcase up a little bit it will point the front tcase output down a little bit. Ideally i can get it within 3* of the pinion. Might need to do some massaging of the floorboard to get it up higher

How far down is your tcase below the frame rails now? I think my setup has the drivetrain about 3deg tilted up

 

[dbbowen]

How far down is your tcase below the frame rails now? I think my setup has the drivetrain about 3deg tilted up

The angle finder on the rear output flange of the tcase is at 4.5 degrees down, front to back. It used to be closer to 2 but when i went to recenter everything i used some 3/16to make new mounting holes and it lowered it even more.

If i can get it close to 1 or 2 degrees it will put my front output flange at a more neutral angle because right now its pointed 4.5 degrees down front to back. 1 to 2 degrees SHOULD get me within 3 degrees of my front pinion which is pointed 1.3* Up front to back.

I really dont know if ill be able to fit a DC front driveshaft in there with the 4l60e trans pan and how my exhaust snakes around my front driveshaft so closely.

I have 5* dobinson caster plates on there now and actually have a little bit too much caster. Im not sure if its a 1:1 ratio but If i can find some 3 or 4 degree caster plates it would help my front pinion angle also

 

[dbbowen]

I forgot to add yesterday, I got the MRR shocks pretty dialed in on the back for on road driving unloaded. Im running the HSC 1 or 2 clicks from full open and the LSC 1 click from full open. For Rebound im like 4 or 5 clicks off of full slow. Still dialing in the front but its close. Similar to the rear, just with more compression. I still need to load the truck up and see how much compression i need to add when its loaded up.


The rear swap is much more work than the front and requires a lot more cutting, customizing, and fine tuning after its all said and done, but imo its freaking worth it. Ive got my rear set up to the point where its significantly more comfortable than my wifes 100 series. You cant even feel small bumps on the rear at all anymore. I think if i had stiffer sway bars i could run the MRR shocks pretty much wide open on compression on the street.

 

[Dubs2017]

I think the last things to do are switch back to the oem shifter i got from @TRAIL TAILOR with the stock double boot to cut down on road noise, which involves splitting the case... AGAIN... Triple checking the trans output shaft cut length for my tcase whine while its apart, and then building out my permanent trans crossmember because the Advance adapters garbage one on there now was always supposed to be temporary.

I also want to try and lift my Transfer case up some if i can to help with the front drive shaft angles. My front pinion is pointed up a little too high since i have a little bit too much caster, so I get a ton of vibrations in 4 high. If i can tilt the tcase up a little bit it will point the front tcase output down a little bit. Ideally i can get it within 3* of the pinion. Might need to do some massaging of the floorboard to get it up higher

haha Dude you split your case the way most people fill up their gas tank. Interested to see what you find with your output shaft length.

 

[dbbowen]

haha Dude you split your case the way most people fill up their gas tank. Interested to see what you find with your output shaft length.

Im REALLY REALLY hoping this is the last time. Ive got a plan this time though. On the Marks kit there is some instructions to shim the input gear on the tcase because the Marks kit isnt advance adapters garbage.

On the AA kit how far in or out your input gear is based on how your output shaft on your 4l60e is cut. (if you dont modify the spacer they provide). Which is stupid because in the marks kit the shims they provide are really thin and allow you to get the proper end float. I guess im going to try and find some pics online and see if peoples input gear to idler gear mesh is like razor stright or if one is more inset than the other and try and copy it by shortening or somehow lengthening My spacer that goes between the input gear and adapter bearing, or if i need to, grind away fractions of an inch from the 4l60 output shaft I guess.

Also going to try and maybe stick on some sound deadening to the adapter and see if that helps any. If none of this stuff works, im just going to live with it until my 4l60 dies and reassess from there. The oem double boot on the tcase shifter should help quite a bit. The twin stick boot, like all of the other AA stuff, is garbage

 

[tmxmotorsports]

I wouldn't put any stick on deadner on it going to get hot and melt.

 

[dbbowen]

I wouldn't put any stick on deadner on it going to get hot and melt.

damn i was afraid of that. Ill scratch that plan

I guess this is my last stab at it. This is what i was talking about with the input gear mesh... and this is definitely a REACH...

This is how the idler gear looked on the back of my old H55f. Almost perfectly flat to the idler gear but a fraction of a mm inset from the idler gear almost

This is a few transfer cases ago, but the input gear positioning shouldnt have changed. You can see the input gear is a fraction of a mm outset of the idler gear here. Im thinking if i can hit the output shaft of the 4l60 with a flap disc or take that tiny tiny amount off of the spacer in front of the input gear, i can get better mesh up with the gears and maybe quiet some of the whine.

Im also going to try and put FIPG all around the Idler shaft hole on the side of the transfer case half that mates to the adapter and then install the idler shaft before installing the case half to the adapter to eliminate any air gap in there and also fully seal it off from any ATF to eliminate any chance of the idler shaft moving

 

[tmxmotorsports]

We are waiting lol

 

[dbbowen]

We are waiting lol

Theres almost a 99% chance that all of this changes nothing hahaha