5.7 Vortec V-8 Swap / 86 FJ60

[rover67]

hey, at least you didn't blow the motor like i did on the fisrst test drive

take it apart and see if you can fix it, it may hav eoverheated in the past and blown a head gasket or something. i did my heads with the block in the truck no problemma.

 

[philos1]

I ran mine (99 motor) with a 97 ECM to help with passing CA emissions (no air injection on the 97 ECM I had, and the 99 had it) otherwise, it should be the same AFAIK....

 

[Elbert]

Part II of the engine swap business started today. Got a new one wire, CS-144 Alternator from this guy High Output Alternators,Alternator Parts, High amp alternator, Chrome Alternators,Quick Start Rebuild Kits, alternator part Seems to work good. Found out that the 140 Alternator uses a different heater hose hard line at the water pump.... had to order one. The CS-144 is quite a bit larger
than the CS-130D.

No obvious defects noted on the old engine (5.7) so far, We got the engine out this afternoon, and are in process with swapping over the parts to the new 5.7. Cylinder heads have a lot of black looking "soot" crap, and whilel the engine was running today notticed a black liquid crap comeing out of the exhaust pipe. We may pull the head off the old engine to see what we can "see".

I'll take some pics tomorrow, forgot the camera once again. One wire alternator seems to work fine...its charging fine at idle.

Depending on our luck we may have the new engine back in the cruiser tomorrow at some point. Stopped at two different places today looking for spark plugs...no-one had them in stock. SHould have some tomorrow AM.

Pics to follow some point over the weekend.

 

[Elbert]

Ok, Who do I need to see about programming my ECM. Engine is a new long block with accessories and parts from a 1998 Yukon. 5.7 Vortec.

I need someone whow knows what they are doing and who knows what sensors have to function and which ones do not. Plus obviously who knows how to program the ECM. My truck is running like crap and its running way rich. I had a guy program the ECM (not going to list a name in the fourm) but I think its not correct, because the engine will not take fuel and like I said its running rich.

Let me know who has experience with this and knows their #$%#$

I feel that the ECM is not programmed correctly.... the way its running I don't see how the hell its not setting a code, but it's not.

I would like to hear some feedback or sugguestions on who to see.

 

[iaintscared1969]

I use Fuel Injection Spec. Jeff Mcmanus can hook you up. Also Do you have any vacuum leaks in the system? Is the MAf sensor good and tight with the air cleaner installed? In past experience it will cause a high idle and a rich condition if you do have any of these and it will not fault the ECU! Stay at it you are right there!!

 

[Elbert]

Ok maybe a dumb question at this point but according to what I"ve read you don't need to run a fuel pressure regulator on a vortec 5.7 ? Can someone confirm this? I'm running an external fuel pump, without a regulator. It was my understanding that the vortec had a regulator built into the fuel system?
I've not run a pressure test.

I was doing some reading to make sure I've not done something to casue my own problems. The painless instructions say you need fuel pressure regulator between the fuel pump and the fuel rail... (I must have overlooked this in the past)... But I dont' recall reading where others had a fuel pressure regulator between the OEM fuel rail and the fuel pump (when you are not running a GM pump).

 

[iaintscared1969]

I have used one on almost all my installs even though the MSD fuel pump is as close to the operational pressure of the Vortec. It is just a safety precation. I am not sure what pump you are using but you may want to pull the pressure on that rail. Also is the vent/purge system in use with your engine?

 

[Elbert]

Randy,

I'll look at the fuel pressure later in the week if I have the time after work. To answer your question I do not have the canister purge solenoid (rigged up) nor do I have have a charocal cannister installed. While I'm not worried technically about emissions, I'm obviously having issues with basic drviability / fuel problems. I don't have the canister vent solonoid installed or the "canister".

The ECM was suppose to be modified to take this into account but I'm not sure what was done at this point since you basically have to assume ... maybe I can see some of the features turned off in the scan tool.

I'm trying to run just the baisc sensors.

I have removed and blocked off the EGR, I have removed and blocked the EGR pipe, I do not have a canister vent solenoid, I do have the canister purge solonioid but its not connected (vaccum line) but is connected electronically and the vaccum port if plugged. I do have the knock sensor plugged up, the crank sensor, the front two oxygen snesors, the map sensor, the cam sensor, the fuel injector harness, the coil dirver, the tps, the IAC, the ECT, the oil pressure switch and MAF.

I presently do not have a VSS installed, I do not have catylitic converters installed or the rear 02 sensors.

I realize that some of the emissions "stuff" co-mingles with the items required for operation. I've not yet been able to fully run that down. That may be part of my problem, in that I may have disabled some things that are required.

I believe I'm ok on not using the rear o2 sensors and not using cat. converters, and not using the EGR and EGR hose. I'm not clear on this point if I need the canister purge solonoid and canister vent solonoid to be operational? The purge solonoid is on the intake and is connected electronically. The vent solnoid is something I don't have along with the canister.

 

[devo]

Elbert,
As you know I run a 1997 5.7 Vortec and I have never used a fuel pressure regulator. There is an oem fuel pressure regulator attached to the fuel injector "spider" under the intake plenum. If you go back to post #121 and open the link to the csfi conversion link you will be able to see the fpr on the injector body.
Also I think you need the purge solonoid. Isn't this what vents the fuel tank? On the firewall there is a small tube that goes back to the tank that was used in the oem application?

devo

 

[Elbert]

Ok, next mission is to round up the evap canistor and associated hose to make it work. I did have part of that previously but I think at some point the hose went in the garbage... Never had the canister so ...just another piece of the puzzle.

 

[Elbert]

PCV

Ok, have new Evap cannister, and solenoid, + plastic hard line. Connected the wiring and installed the hose and have it roughly installed. Can someone tell me what connect to this (not sure of the name but see attached pic, its connected to the PCV valve.). Where you see my finger is a vaccum port I've capped off. Can someone tell me what is connected to this ? I assume a vaccum line that runs to something? See pics

I recall having a long plastic hard line that I think connected to this, but its lost in the mix now and I never had whatever was on the other end or whatever it connects to.

I've been looking through the shop manaual and so far I've not come across info on this, if anyone knows let me know. This is the driver side
of the 5.7 Vortec I have, that's from a 1998 Yukon.

 

[devo]

Elbert, there is a small diameter hard plastic tube that runs from that vacume switch to the cannister.

devo

 

[Elbert]

Canister Purge

Remember this is the drivers side valve cover(post 171 above). The canister vent solenoid on a 98 is mounted right next to the canister(see 2nd pic below), the canister purge solenoid is located on the passenger side of the intake (see pic 1 below)and I've attached a picture of it below. It has the large plastic hard line that runs to the canister. ON my 98 there are no more fittings on the canister, its even shaped differently than a 97. I think the above pics have something to do with the PCV?

Are you talking about something other than the evap canister?

See 2nd pic that shows the evap canister along with the canister vent solenoid.

I think this valve I showed on the drivers side of the engine is plumbed into something else because I don't see anywhere for it to connect on the evap canister. The shop manual only shows two connections to the 98 evap canister. (1) one hose runs to the gas tank (2) the 2nd hose runs to the canister purge solenoid.

Edited to correct my screw up in directions... **

I do have clear directions in the shop manual on the purge solenoid, the evap canister and the associated plumbing. THe large plastic hard line runs from the purge solenoid over to the evap canister. THe evap canister in the 2nd pic has two ports...(one for the large plastic hard line)(one for a line that runs to the gas tank) in addition on the bracket that holds the evap canister you can see the vent solenoid(pic 2 which connects by electrical connection).

In post 171 above I"m trying to figure out what connects to that "valve" on the drivers side of the intake. I've looked all over the GM shop manual #2 that referes to engine "stuff" no luck so far. This valve really pulls some vaccum ie ...leaks at that port, thus the reason for the cap.

The pictures in the manual clearly show the evap plumbling and I've tried to replicate that .... So far I don't know what that valve is called that connects to the PCV in the picture on post #171.

 

[devo]

Well, I'll take some pictures and send them to you a little later on.
My 97 does not have what is shown in the second photo.
There is a good chance that the small tube from the pcv vacuum may actually go to the fuel tank vent?
I can't remember! But I'll look at it later and get back.

devo

 

[Elbert]

devo,

I edited my previous reply which was a little confusiing.

There are some differences between the 87 and 98 trucks... I noticed that previoulsy... I think the sensors are located in different areas, only applies to a couple of things, and its what we are talking about now.

This PCV vent plmbing may be the same? But I don't see right now how anything further connects to the evap cannister or gas tank via vaccum line. I do know the 98 vehciles have a gas tank pressue sensor but thats only electrical (at this point I hope I don't need one of those).

 

[Elbert]

Check fuel pressue.... engine running / about 58lbs which is good. Now to look into the ECM.

 

[Lance Lucas]

Bump for updates? Been anxiously following this one...

 

[Elbert]

Updates as of 22 Mar...

I figured out that my friends scanner I've borrowed to check codes with and monitor sensors needs to be upgraded. ITs an Autoxray 6000.. which works pretty good, but apparenlty at the time my friend bought the thing there was an option for "enhance OBD II parameters" which at that time he had no use for...anyway I can't read the cam retard offset angle... required to determine if truck is in time correctly.
Trying to get that upgraded...or I may just buy a scanner myself..

I also found out that I let the smoke out of my fusable link.... screwing with the alternator. That's fixed and I have a one wire 140 Amp GM alternator that works fine and a new fusable link

Engine runs a little rough, very rich, will not take fuel or rev high at all. Fuel pressure ok. I plan to check the timing and fix that if its out... THen I plan to either have the ECM programmed again or buy a tunner package myself and see what kind of damage I can do.

THe wierd part is that the ECM is not seeting codes...

So right now its .... going to be set the timing... see what impact that has if any.. Then look at the ECM programming.

I assumed that I was in the ballpark on the timing, since no check engine codes, but my mechanic friend said not the case... Got to have the proper scan tool. If the vortec are as senstitive as my TBI pickup the timing has to be right on the money.

Once the engine runs right... I've got to reprogram the SPAL electric fan controller... its not working right, or replace it or do something else with the electric fan controller. I may have srewed it up with the voltage spike we had with the old alternator. We tried some createive wiring and lost on that. THe spike may have fried the fan controller. IT works but does not work right.. I also see where we bent the PS cooler, so enventially I'll need to replace that, but so far its not leaking.

Truck is not really drivable at this time and the scan tool business has stopped the show for a little bit.

 

[JLH911]

I would pull the intake and do a quick look-see before pulling the whole engine. You had stated that the coolant is not filling the crankcase and you are not belching smoke out of the tail pipe. It may just be a bad intake gasket. Either way its worth a look.


Dynosoar

The truck I use at work has a Vortec engine in it and a while ago I could faintly smell the tell-tale sign of coolant. I looked everywhere for a leak and nothing.

I told our mechanics about it and they said "Oh, they always do that;we have that happening all the time with the Vortecs...bad intake gasket and Chevy doesn't want to recall them for that..we're losing a lot of them this way"

Anyway, I'd do what Dynosoar said and check the intake gasket out!

 

[Elbert]

When I pulled the intake off the old engine I did not see signs of a leak. Off hand we don't know if the heads are cracked or not, or maybe an issue with the block. I gave the long block assembly to the guy
who helped do the swap and so far I don't know if he has has the cylinder heads checked for cracks yet. Not obvious signs of issues.