5.7 Vortec V-8 Swap / 86 FJ60

[Elbert]

I'm using a oil filter adapater out of a 98 Yukon 2 wheel drive. It has the vertical mount "normal" oil filter orientation. It also has the two ports for the oil cooler. Long time ago I bought a "kit" from B*M that had all the fittings and stuff to plumb for an oil cooler, I'm guessin its still around. Anway, there are two fittings that screw into the oil filter adapter and have -8 male ends, I also installed the same kind of fittings on the oil cooler. So you then make up some hose of your choice that has -8 female on one end and -8 hose connection on the other. Ran cooler lines from oil filter adapter, along the drivers side frame rail, then up through the radiator support and over to the cooler. We went with steel braided hose because I screwed up and did not get the right kind of fittings for the polyester braided hose I had.

I thought the fan belt was idiot proof , but I'm going to look at that again. Yes I have a new GM water pump that mataches the vehicle the engine came out of....98 Yukon. I did not think you could put the belt on wrong and it work?? Maybe so...I'll check that, I was in a hurry and just matched the smooth part of the belt with the smooth pulleys and the grooved with the groved pulleys. Maybe the belt install is not "Elbert proof"...

I expect that the truck will run around 195 or so, and like you say will hit about 210. I don't know why you would have a problem at 210F... with the electroncis & fuel control? I was concerned about running a 180 thermostat because I know some of these "new" engines need to run fairly hot for the electronics to function right and for the engine to go into closed loop. I may try a cooler thermostat once we figure what the hell is going on with the coolant flow.

I'm going to look pretty stupid if you can put the belt on wrong and it work....

I've not seen an engine do this before....so I'm sure it's going to be something oddball. We literally don't have coolant flow. I'll have to drag my @$$ for two weeks if I put that belt on wrong.

I'll take some pics of the fittings I used if you need that Devo.

The hole in the firewall is the same as where the A/C lines go through, but on the drivers side. Almsot looks like it was made for that. I'm using a B&M oil cooler, with -8 size hose to feed it.

 

[devo]

well if it makes you feel any better i had to get a chevy man to show me how the belt went on correctly.
when i p/u my 5.7 it didn't have a belt. so...
yes photos are always good. i threw out that oil thing but the junk yards are full of them. i p/u an oil cooler off of a v8 j**p i plan to use.
i did my conversion in 2000 it took me 108 hours from start to finish. there is always something else that is an improvement on the original format.
i was concerned about the cooler thermostat but "the" guy at the speed shop insisted i use a 180. the computer adjust and maybe runs a little richer but it works well for me in the hot months.

devo

 

[philos1]

Just a nagging thought on the flow issue and it may sound like a stupid question... are you letting it run long enough for the T-stat to open? also have you tested the T-stat? I can't see it having any flow without it open.

Also as to the rough running, are the O2 sensors hooked up front, back, left, and right? I remember reading somewhere a guy wired L/R wrong and it ran like s***.

Hope that helps some.

 

[Elbert]

I'm off tomorrow so I'm going to verfiy the belt routing, and look at the heater hose setup. Yes we let it run a while, without the fan plugged in order for it to get hot.

I do need to make sure the O2 sensors are plugged into the right connectors, but on the harness I have, it looks like it would be a royal pain in the @ss if I have to switch them. Good idea to check though.

For now I'm going to stay with the 195 thermostat and see what happens. Yes, the thermostat appears to be ok. I had a GM thermostat in it to start and we thought that might be the problem and I changed it to another brand...same difference. Ran out of time Friday afternoon and will be able to work on it some tomorrow.

I think its something to do with the waterpump, because nothing else makes any sense. Either I have the belt on wrong, or the water pump is screwed up somehow. I will hopefully be able to figure that out tomorrow. The idea that its physically possible to intsall the fan belt wrong is a good question in itself.
(if it is... I'll know the answer tomorrow).

 

[iaintscared1969]

I always run mine with a 180 stat. They won't run hot ever! As for the flow issue take off your heater lines and start it up. You need to make sure there isn't any air in the lines. Believe it or not it will not circulate through your heater lines if you don't.

 

[iaintscared1969]

Also if the MAF sensor has a leak or isn't connected it will run like crap.

 

[Elbert]

Ok this is a very unuaual deal... ON my vortec engine swap. Here is the current setup. Heater hose runs from fitting at intake over to heater control valve...which then connects to the heater core. Then from the heater core I have a heater hose running to the rear heater core which connects to the heater pipe (what I'm calling the drivers side), then a heater hose connects the passenger side of the rear heater core to the heater hose that runs to the water pump.

Vortec engine is running stock water pump and is stock as far as brackets, other hoese and setup. I installed a new 180 thermostat and a new water pump today to try and address the coolant flow problems.

The truck is not really getting hot... If it runs a while ...the mechancial guage on the drivers side head will show it to climb around 210-220 and if it runs a good whilte it gets to about 230. Now this is without the electric fan running (doing this to try to get thermostat to cycle and bleed cooling system. You would expect that around 230 (by the mechanical guage) that the engine would boil over.... it does not.

We are having no luck with getting coolant flow, and the engine is bone stock just like it came from the salvage yard with all the accessories. We are not getting coolant flow at the top radiator hose or for that mater through the system apparently. Thermostat is in is normal configuration with the spring down.

Never got the engine to boil over or overheat.... I don't trust the readings on the mechanical guage. I know others have done this swap. We are really at a loss on why no coolant flow. New water pump today and new thermostat. I'm running an aftermarket 4 core radiator that I had with the I-6, and had no problems.

Anyone encountered any wierd deal like this with a vortec swap. I would have thought the engine would have boiled over and overheated....its not. It does not seem like the radiator is getting hot like it should, or that we have appropriate water flow at the two main raidiator hoses.

Are we missing something obvious? I've run out of ideas so far. I thought maybe that I had put the belt on wrong...its not, I verfied that with the shop manual, I thought the water pump I initially had was the problem, its not, new water pump doing the same thing. I thought the thermostat might be an issue, repalced it.. same problem.

Its almost like the engine is not getting hot enough? No symptoms of a blown head gasket. No leaks, As far as I know on a 98 Vortec 5.7 there is only one water pump. The only other thing I can think of is that maybe there is something wrong with the intake gaskets? No engine codeas or other known mechanical defects.

Its a wierd deal.... truck will idle for a long time, never overheats, does not boil over, heater hoses don't get hot like they should, best we can tell the top radiator hose is not flowing coolant. Its like the water pump is working backwards....but all my informaiton says that there is only one water pump for these 5.7 Vortecs. Anyone got any ideas... I know there are a couple of guys with the same setups running around... What has been your experience?

I would expect that if something was screwed up the engine would in fact boil over...its not.. I've let it run a long time with the electric radiator fan unplugged. For some reason it appears that we don't have coolant flow and I've not seen anything like this before, I asked some guys who work at the local GM shop and they did not know either. Looking for suggestions.

 

[Dynosoar]

Try running it with NO thermostat. Just to check flow.

Dynosoar

 

[Elbert]

I believe the issue is air pockets in the cooling system. The engine was "dry" when I installed it. I replaced each and every heater hose, to include the two long hard lines that feed the rear heater core. Radiator was dry....so basically I'm filling the cooling system from zero.

I've done searches related to air pockets, air in the coolant lines, coolant bleeders...etc. What some of the guys are descibing fits my situation in that I have not coolant flow to speak of, I'm not getting any circulation through the heater cores / heater hoses...

Some of you other guys with the same 5.7 vortec are running basically the same setup, but I don't think everyone replaced all the crap I have at one time. It's really the only thing that makes any sense at this point. Got to figure a way to fill heater hoses / heater cores and vent those on one side while I'm adding fluid to the other side. Maybe look to see what might work as a good bleeder. I'm guessing as a last resort some of the coolant flush kit fittings might work, or rig up something with a little on / off valve inlineon the heater hoses that can be used as a vent when required.

 

[Elbert]

still chasing coolant flow "gremlins"... I also think I need to send the PCM off to get someone else to program it, because the truck is not running right.

I told someone I would post the GM part number for the bracket that holds the PCM to the fenderwell,
its # 15993200 . I bought one from GMPARTSDIRECT for something like $20... I'm sure salvage and junkyards most likely have them, but for $20.00, I would order one..

 

[devo]

Elbert,
how are your engine grounds?
the vortec loves good strong frame grounds from more than one location.
i have one ground to the battery oem location and one direct block to frame ground.
my harness also has a ground.

devo

 

[Elbert]

Elbert,
how are your engine grounds?
the vortec loves good strong frame grounds from more than one location.
i have one ground to the battery oem location and one direct block to frame ground.
my harness also has a ground.

devo

I have two grounds on the passenger side rear of the engine. I used the yota ground which runs from the firewall over to the rear of the engine. I also installed a good ground from the passenger side cylinder head over to the RH frame rail. I tighened the fire of out of the frame mounted one, but I might be well served to go back and put one of those "star" washers under the bolt.

My harness has two postive leads that connect to the starter, I've forgotten where the harness grounds.... I"ll look at that to make sure we have it tight. That's a good idea to check though. I want to say its connected to the rear of the cylinder head but I'll have to check.

We ran the negative battery cable over to the engine using one of the holes where the mechanical fuel pumps use to mount.


Has anyone else with a Vortec 5.7 had serious issues with coolant flow through the engine and heater hoses, if so what was the solution? I'm running a new OEM 98 yukon water pump, OEM 195 thermostat, OEM fan belt drive, 4 core brass aftermarket radiator (worked fine on the I-6), have plubmed both heater cores and replaced the hard lines that feed the rear heater core.

Wierd... We're not seeing proper coolant flow, its not builiding pressure and I'm really not seeing what could be the issue at this point. I've swapped thermostats, water pump...we've manually filled the heater hoses. Heater hoses not getting really hot, and the top and bottom radiator hoses are not getting really hot, nor pressurized. No signs of a head gasket issue, no signs of oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil. Waterpump bypass hose is new too.

The best I can tell there is only one water pump that fits any of the 96-98 GM 5.7 vortec engines, there is only one thermostat too. I've never seen an engine act in this manner? IT will run for a while and by the mechanical guage it shows to be around 210 or 220... after a while. ON the automotive scanner it shows roughly the same.

I'm gooing to look at the intake gaskets because I've run out of best guesses ....

 

[Elbert]

Well.... tonight was a good clue that I may have found the issue. I fixed a heater hose leak and I started the truck up in the dark, just to let it run a little while.... noticed a good bit of smoke out the tail pipe....shined flashlight in tailpipe where I noticed green fluid..."coolant".

Good guess right now is that I have a blown head gasket or cracked head....

 

[MANUCHAO]

Elbert, that sucks eh.
Hope it is something else and not a cracked head...let us know..
Good luck

 

[philos1]

Well.... tonight was a good clue that I may have found the issue. I fixed a heater hose leak and I started the truck up in the dark, just to let it run a little while.... noticed a good bit of smoke out the tail pipe....shined flashlight in tailpipe where I noticed green fluid..."coolant".

Good guess right now is that I have a blown head gasket or cracked head....

I remember reading somewhere that the intake gaskets like to leak, so maybe there's a coolant leak at the intake and that is getting into the mix? just a thought, and it could be way off...so, maybe try a compression test?

 

[Elbert]

I'm really leaning towards a GM target engine.... Not sure how much effort I"m going
to apply to run down the issues. Really kind of a kick in the "shorts"... feeling at this point.

At this point I just want to devote time and $$ towards a known good solution. I have all the parts
to make a long block swap except for the engine and the bearing /busihing that goes in the crankshaft
for the manual trans.

Kind of feel like I'm pouring money down a never ending pit with the present engine. I don't want to 2nd guess later on and kick myself in the @ss for not moving on GM long block assembly. I don't want any more suprises.

 

[Elbert]

you're right philos... based upon what I've seen with the engine and the way things have been going with it, I don't think its a intake leak. I'm at the point of not really wanting to invest any furhter effort into the present engine... allthough I would say it sure looks good just sitting there under the hood

These swaps almost turn out like it was made that way.

I appreciate the input and advice everyone has offered...maybe I'll have better luck in the future.

 

[Dynosoar]

I would pull the intake and do a quick look-see before pulling the whole engine. You had stated that the coolant is not filling the crankcase and you are not belching smoke out of the tail pipe. It may just be a bad intake gasket. Either way its worth a look.


Dynosoar

 

[Elbert]

I am getting smoke out the tail pipe now and a small stream of coolant. I replaced the intake caskets prior to installing the engine so I"m confidnet they are good. I don't discount what you guys are saying, we'll of course pull the intake to swap it over... I'll provide some feedback on what I see.

 

[Elbert]

Ok, maybe this weekend we'll get it fixed. Got a new GM "crate 350" to go in the beast. Going to try a one wire alternator just for fun to see how well that works.

Anyone got any tips on easy solution to seperating the engine from the adapter. We plan on leaving the trans and most everyting on the driveline alone and to seperate the engine from the mark's adapter and then remove the engine and swap parts, and then go back with the new long block assembly. Of course we'll be experts at installing the hood now, and connecting all the "Crap"...

Got my fingers crossed on the ECM. Is there any PRO / CON to running a 97 version of the ECM rather than a 98 version. I have a 98 year ECM that matches the truck. I thought I read somewhere that there was some advantage to a 1997 year model ECM... anyone know.