Let me get this straight. Your customer paid you to weld up a kit? Why the heck didn't you advise your customer to just buy it welded and powder coated? Would have saved time and money.
4x4 labs rear bumper (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kanudude
- Start date
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woooody
el Jefe
I know Luke, he is a designer. He doesn't build landscape trailers
Maybe this is why your customer ordered his bumper and not yours.
View attachment 1191063
Yeah, this is what mine looks like:
Vs this from HFS4x4:
The build information link is on every page of 4x4labs web site.
It says "rear bumper build instructions". When you click on it you can see the pics Woody just posted.
I'm sure you are aware of that right?
It says "rear bumper build instructions". When you click on it you can see the pics Woody just posted.
I'm sure you are aware of that right?
woooody
el Jefe
Ummm -- You said that he told you to look on the mud thread. The mud thread for the Bumper Build is referenced on the Bumper Kit page!
Took me 3 minutes to click through everything. Again - Why agree to do a job without determining what needed to be done?
Looks like a pretty sick bumper to me... I have had 2 of his bumpers now on my 80 series trucks. The first double swing out I bought already assembled and powder coated, and the next I bought in stages as a kit. The finished, powdercoated version coming straight from Luke's shop is the way to go, even though I had a local mudder do a good job putting my kit together.
Money aside, most of us would be pretty stoked if that dual swingout for our 40 series showed up in the mail
Money aside, most of us would be pretty stoked if that dual swingout for our 40 series showed up in the mail
Yeah. Luke builds unique bumpers. That being said, I've seen/owned stuff from Trail Taylor and Dave Gore (4+ Parts). Both are high quality and tough as hell. They are also big supporters of this forum and community.
woooody
el Jefe
"Fan boys"? No - I already stated that I've known him for years, and I'm a customer.
You said that your customer was "ripped off" by Luke. Some would call that slander. It's called coming to the defense of a good vendor to the Land Cruiser community, a raffle sponsor for multiple TLCA events, as well as a good friend.
If you're going to build or install something, wouldn't you look on the web page of the product? Seems like "everyone" else can find this stuff, and multiple people have had great success with his products. You had a bad experience, and you are free to choose differently in the future. Clearly, your customer didn't want a bumper that you could design, perhaps he didn't like the tubing style of bumper. Who knows? Your prices ($2300? $2400?) are similar to Luke's. So for whatever reason, the choice was made to go with one from Luke, and for some reason, the customer decided that a pile of parts could be assembled by you with either better build quality, or cheaper, than what he would pay for a finish welded product.
woooody
el Jefe
I agree with you, Dave also does a good job, and has been a great supporter of the Land Cruiser community, as well as TLCA events. I don't know him personally, but I have purchased FJ40 parts from him in the past. Quick service, quality product.
I agree that not including instructions sucks. If I am building something for a customer I don't want to spend time looking up web pages and build threads or figuring it out. Figuring stuff out takes longer than if their are nice detailed instructions. Sure I can figure stuff out, but I am going to charge the customer more and I would not feel bad for doing so. I would just tell the customer that, and if they are not ok with that, then I would return the bumper to the company and get the money back. I like the bumper though, looks nice but I like bumpers to protrude past the quarter panel a bit to protect the body.
2fpower
SILVER Star
My thoughts are simple. Most places would sell this bumper assembled, painted or powdered for their full price. Luke gives us folks that like to build and customize things an option to save some major $$$ and get this kit.
Yes, there is more research and thought you have to do. This is not a LEGO kit! I understand the frustration from the OP; however, the owner of this vehicle made a very odd decision, to try and save money getting the kit, then spend more to get back to the completed bumper.
In my opinion, you have two roads to go down. Build yourself and save enough money to buy the welder you put it together with, or pay full price and bolt it on.
My point is instead of bashing Luke and 4x4labs, you should thank him for what he is offering to those of us that want to burn some metal in and save some $$$.
Full disclosure, I have built one of his 80 bumpers, and amazed at the quality. I do not care for the 40 design, so I am going to make my own. I did purchase parts from him (spindles) for this build, as the quality of his materials far exceeds anything that I have seen.
Yes, there is more research and thought you have to do. This is not a LEGO kit! I understand the frustration from the OP; however, the owner of this vehicle made a very odd decision, to try and save money getting the kit, then spend more to get back to the completed bumper.
In my opinion, you have two roads to go down. Build yourself and save enough money to buy the welder you put it together with, or pay full price and bolt it on.
My point is instead of bashing Luke and 4x4labs, you should thank him for what he is offering to those of us that want to burn some metal in and save some $$$.
Full disclosure, I have built one of his 80 bumpers, and amazed at the quality. I do not care for the 40 design, so I am going to make my own. I did purchase parts from him (spindles) for this build, as the quality of his materials far exceeds anything that I have seen.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
As another long time 4x4 Labs happy customer and previous bumper kit builder, I think the criticism here has been unduly harsh, certainly more harsh than it needed to be. Luke is a GREAT and CREATIVE fabricator. He has helped me with projects countless times. Like Dave said-he was never in the box to start with. Does he take awhile to answer the phone? Yep. It's often a 1 or 2 man show at the Labs. I've had the best luck with email.
The kits really only make $ sense when you build them yourself. It makes no sense to order a kit and then pay another someone unfamiliar with the design, to build it-you could have just paid the same money to Luke and received a completed bolt on bumper.
Regarding the 4x4 Labs FJ40 bumper. I've seen several trucks with that bumper and think it's great. (I will admit, I did not know he offered that as a "kit".) Great unique design and function. But, when I needed a bumper for my FJ40, the 4x4 Labs bumper would be months and the 4+ bumper would be days, so guess which one I have? And that 4+ bumper has stood the test of time, even if I'm not crazy about the latch. I'd buy it again, and recommend it to anybody.
These kits are super fun to build-for a non-pro like me. It's deeply satisfying to make it all work and be rewarded with a good looking and highly functional result. But if you're a pro, on the clock, trying to figure out the less obvious aspects of a complicated kit bumper, I can see where that would be irritating and expensive. Just don't slander the man in a public forum. And @NCFJ , calling out Luke's customers as "fan boys" is not the professional response I would have expected.
The kits really only make $ sense when you build them yourself. It makes no sense to order a kit and then pay another someone unfamiliar with the design, to build it-you could have just paid the same money to Luke and received a completed bolt on bumper.
Regarding the 4x4 Labs FJ40 bumper. I've seen several trucks with that bumper and think it's great. (I will admit, I did not know he offered that as a "kit".) Great unique design and function. But, when I needed a bumper for my FJ40, the 4x4 Labs bumper would be months and the 4+ bumper would be days, so guess which one I have? And that 4+ bumper has stood the test of time, even if I'm not crazy about the latch. I'd buy it again, and recommend it to anybody.
These kits are super fun to build-for a non-pro like me. It's deeply satisfying to make it all work and be rewarded with a good looking and highly functional result. But if you're a pro, on the clock, trying to figure out the less obvious aspects of a complicated kit bumper, I can see where that would be irritating and expensive. Just don't slander the man in a public forum. And @NCFJ , calling out Luke's customers as "fan boys" is not the professional response I would have expected.
I'm not 100% crazy about it either.
I'd like to find another also without going to two separate latches. Two take up lot of space .
I've always liked Luke's approach to things. He never follows the status quo on his designs
which is the safe route. Although Hardline does have a point from a shop's perspective but the blame is on the customer. The customer should have ordered it full welded. From Hardline's
view it's hard for a shop to recoup time researching anything, even just searching the net for the best prices or better options for any work whether it's lightbars, radios, suspension or bumpers. I'm sure Luke has encountered the same. We all have as a shop. I remember spending over 8 hours online looking for a steering wheel for a customer. I could hardly add 400.00 to the price. I thank the God's every day for Amazon. I'd rather wait a day for 1.00
light bulb than charge a customer 15.00 of time to make a 20 minute round trip to pick one up.
I'll give Luke props on guts.
I've never had the courage to market things in "kit" form because the end result will always reflect back on you even though you don't do the work. It's hardly polite to ask your customers to see a resume' of their welding experience. I would hate for an arm to fall off on the highway and scratch someone's nice new Prius..
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Guess I'll go full on fanboy and mention another thread....
4x4 Labs Rear Bumper System for My 70 Series
4x4 Labs Rear Bumper System for My 70 Series
Man, the mud community really needs to support and grow its vendor/supplier base to the Toyota land cruiser models. The amount of suppliers for aftermarket crap for heeps is numerous, and the few we use/scrutinize shouldn't be taken for granted. They are building rock solid and innovative gear to last for years.
Will either of these carry the weight of a 37 without having issues?
reddingcruiser
Practicing for retirement
I've done enough business with Luke to consider this an anomaly.
It's a free-market system and we're all entitled to make our own buying decisions based on our needs and abilities.
Though I do almost all my own fabrication and do a fair a most on the side as time permits, I appreciate ALL of the folks with shops that specialize in Landcruisers, and everyone that produces aftermarket parts for them. Without these folks a lot of Cruiser owners would have no way to add cool stuff to their rigs.
It's a free-market system and we're all entitled to make our own buying decisions based on our needs and abilities.
Though I do almost all my own fabrication and do a fair a most on the side as time permits, I appreciate ALL of the folks with shops that specialize in Landcruisers, and everyone that produces aftermarket parts for them. Without these folks a lot of Cruiser owners would have no way to add cool stuff to their rigs.
The limitation will be the space between the carrier and the basket. I know of one using a 39.5 swamper. It will certainly handle the weight.
