4 banger LC, thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[malden]

The decision was:
1. Make the 250.
or.
2. Kill the Land Cruiser for the U.S. market

And they decided to do both.

Look we all have a strong degree of faith in Toyota. I do. But I have a hard time imagining baby Toyota engineers looking up at their non-Soccer Moms and saying “Mama-san when I grow up I want to build a 4 cyl sewing machine to replace legendary Japanese V6 and V8 engines!” Can any of you really see this? No. But in the meantime a bunch of real hard core dominant alpha California Soccer Moms voted for laws that led to emission standards that once outside the confines of West LA spread to all the Golden State, all the USA and (unless we do something to stop it) all the known world. But not to fear, China, India, Russia, Pakistan and the rest of the industrial world is ignoring this emissions stuff completely. So all those now grown up Toyota engineers had to put up what they knew about V8s and take a crash course in Singer. And that is where we are today. Most of these Toyota guys are two inches away from Hari Kari. Did you see the one and only Japanese engineer on the 250 team during the reveal who was presented to the audience? He wanted to hide in the shadows. Barely took a step out into the light. Didn’t want to be seen. The Yakuza is after him. He’s since requested asylum in Timbuktu. Five minutes into the 250 reveal we knew why. So this Hybrid technology did not come out of the genius of Toyota but instead spread out of the neurosis of lonely unoccupied Soccer Moms whose kids, after fifty years of trying, still cannot play Football! Maybe instead of obsessing on saving the planet, they should have focused on their kids best interests and given them Cello lessons instead!

 

[Phillyd2]

‘The US doesn’t need a vehicle that's as reliable as the rest of the world because we have auto parts stores all over’. Well, ok – then lets just continue pretending that this is the much preferred drivetrain.

 

[M1911]

And so they decided to do both.

Look we all have a strong degree of faith in Toyota. I do. But I have a hard time imagining baby Toyota engineers looking up at their non-Soccer Moms and saying “Mama-san when I grow up I want to build a 4 cyl sewing machine to replace legendary Japanese V6 and V8 engines!” Can any of you really see this? No. But in the meantime a bunch of real hard core dominant alpha California Soccer Moms voted for laws that led to emission standards that once outside the confines of West LA spread to all the Golden State, all the USA and (unless we do something to stop it) all the known world. So all those now grown up Toyota engineers had to put up what they knew about V8s and take a crash course in Singer. And that is where we are today. Most of these Toyota guys are two inches away from Hari Kari. Did you see the one and only Japanese engineer on the 250 team during the reveal who was presented to the audience? He wanted to hide in the shadows. Barely took a step out into the light. Didn’t want to be seen. The Yakuza is after him. He’s since requested asylum in Timbuktu. Five minutes into the 250 reveal we knew why. So this Hybrid technology did not come out of the genius of Toyota but instead spread out of the neurosis of lonely unoccupied Soccer Moms whose kids, after fifty years of trying, still cannot play Football! Maybe instead of obsessing on saving the planet, they should have focused on their kids best interests and given them Cello lessons instead!

Dude you are so full of nonsense.

 

[Manhattan]

@malden tell me about this "legendary" V6 from Toyota.

 

[pawnthatdude]

Love how every new generation of Land Cruiser (including the 80) is vehemently attacked as a soccer mom car. Then when the next generation after that comes along, somehow the outgoing generation isn't a soccer mom car anymore. Very ironic.

I love my 200. But you know what happens when* I pull up to another white 2009 Land Cruiser at a stop light? Nothing. Because it's the most suburban prototypical mom behind the wheel and she doesn't even glance in my direction.

I don't know if you all have actually looked at the outside of your 200 but most people on the road think it's a Highlander... I think it's kinda funny so I don't mind. But if you parked your sparkly 200 tow queen next to a 70 that someone had sawzalled off the entire top and windshield to haul logs up some forgotten mountain road in Kashmir, I hate to break it to you, but your 200 does not look related.

*Which is rare because no body bought these things. And I live in a tremendously popular area for Land Cruisers.

 

[Broski]

Along the lines of wanting a natural aspirated V8 which will last forever, I find this latest generation LX570 offroad build more and more appealing, beside a nice LC200.

With the numbers of second hand LX570 sold here, this seems a very nice way to go.

View attachment 3391132

Nothing last forever and the 200 is not a off roader.
The problem with the new LC is the low ground clearance and independent front suspension. That's what kills it for me just like the 200
Your mom Subaru will go where the LC200 will

 

[Romer]

the 200 is not a off roader.

Maybe it is just the driver as my 200 has gone everywhere I asked of it. I have found IFS is just fine and hasn't hindered anything. Coming from someone who has owned (still do) solid front axle LCs and wheeled the crap out of them

 

[M1911]

I really, really want to do Black Bear Pass. I realize it isn't that hard, but man is it beautiful.

 

[TWILLY]

And so they decided to do both.

Look we all have a strong degree of faith in Toyota. I do. But I have a hard time imagining baby Toyota engineers looking up at their non-Soccer Moms and saying “Mama-san when I grow up I want to build a 4 cyl sewing machine to replace legendary Japanese V6 and V8 engines!” Can any of you really see this? No. But in the meantime a bunch of real hard core dominant alpha California Soccer Moms voted for laws that led to emission standards that once outside the confines of West LA spread to all the Golden State, all the USA and (unless we do something to stop it) all the known world. But not to fear, China, India, Russia, Pakistan and the rest of the industrial world is ignoring this stuff completely. So all those now grown up Toyota engineers had to put up what they knew about V8s and take a crash course in Singer. And that is where we are today. Most of these Toyota guys are two inches away from Hari Kari. Did you see the one and only Japanese engineer on the 250 team during the reveal who was presented to the audience? He wanted to hide in the shadows. Barely took a step out into the light. Didn’t want to be seen. The Yakuza is after him. He’s since requested asylum in Timbuktu. Five minutes into the 250 reveal we knew why. So this Hybrid technology did not come out of the genius of Toyota but instead spread out of the neurosis of lonely unoccupied Soccer Moms whose kids, after fifty years of trying, still cannot play Football! Maybe instead of obsessing on saving the planet, they should have focused on their kids best interests and given them Cello lessons instead

So, you're saying that you like youth soccer league?

 

[NTTD]

The 200 will lose value, and probably precipitously...

This is my hope.

200 and 250 are completely different animals.

We, know that. But to the non-enthusiast i.e. general public, this is the "less expensive replacement Land Cruiser".

I really, really want to do Black Bear Pass. I realize it isn't that hard, but man is it beautiful.

Same, I'll get out there one day.

It's not "hard', as long as you don't make a mistake. Then it's hard all the way down.

 

[M1911]

Black Bear isn’t hard, but it is very unforgiving of mistakes. I think many of these mistakes happened because the driver got scared off the edge, got too high on the uphill side, and then rolled over.

 

[Phillyd2]

Love how every new generation of Land Cruiser (including the 80) is vehemently attacked as a soccer mom car. Then when the next generation after that comes along, somehow the outgoing generation isn't a soccer mom car anymore. Very ironic.

I love my 200. But you know what happens when* I pull up to another white 2009 Land Cruiser at a stop light? Nothing. Because it's the most suburban prototypical mom behind the wheel and she doesn't even glance in my direction.

I don't know if you all have actually looked at the outside of your 200 but most people on the road think it's a Highlander... I think it's kinda funny so I don't mind. But if you parked your sparkly 200 tow queen next to a 70 that someone had sawzalled off the entire top and windshield to haul logs up some forgotten mountain road in Kashmir, I hate to break it to you, but your 200 does not look related.

*Which is rare because no body bought these things. And I live in a tremendously popular area for Land Cruisers.

Hopefully you’re not suggesting that anything they put a LC badge on automatically gets a pass from any criticism or that every latest version is the best possible result.

 

[pawnthatdude]

Hopefully you’re not suggesting that anything they put a LC badge on automatically gets a pass from any criticism or that every latest version is the best possible result.

Certainly not.

I just find it funny how the tune changes from when the new generation arrives vs when it's on its way out. Replace some of the details and it's exactly the same narrative every time "not a real Land Cruiser blah blah soccer mom blah blah".

This criticism is especially funny when people prop up the 200, a car that was ultimately a failure in the US.

 

[MrX]

The 200 will lose value, and probably precipitously; it’s the simple and inevitable result of consumers choosing a new Land Cruiser over one that is used, in many ways less capable, and far more expensive to both purchase and operate.

Do you have any idea how many people will want a NA V8 in ten, twenty years??? People reallllllllly don't think about this.

And remember, 200s weren't expensive to rip people off. They were built up to a standard like olllllllld Mercedes, not down to a price by the bean counters.

 

[MrX]

And so they decided to do both.

Look we all have a strong degree of faith in Toyota. I do. But I have a hard time imagining baby Toyota engineers looking up at their non-Soccer Moms and saying “Mama-san when I grow up I want to build a 4 cyl sewing machine to replace legendary Japanese V6 and V8 engines!” Can any of you really see this? No. But in the meantime a bunch of real hard core dominant alpha California Soccer Moms voted for laws that led to emission standards that once outside the confines of West LA spread to all the Golden State, all the USA and (unless we do something to stop it) all the known world. But not to fear, China, India, Russia, Pakistan and the rest of the industrial world is ignoring this stuff completely. So all those now grown up Toyota engineers had to put up what they knew about V8s and take a crash course in Singer. And that is where we are today.

This is a million percent spot on. You know at least half of these Toyota engineers are shaking their heads. Imagine the new V8 Toyota and Lexus would have right now if it weren't basically because of democrats.

Also, lol a "sewing machine" is a compliment IMO, 4 cylinder is more like a rattling coffee can. "Runs like a sewing machine" to me screams V8. Just my opinion though.

 

[Knowbuddy]

This is a million percent spot on. You know at least half of these Toyota engineers are shaking their heads. Imagine the new V8 Toyota and Lexus would have right now if it weren't basically because of democrats.

Also, lol a "sewing machine" is a compliment IMO, 4 cylinder is more like a rattling coffee can. "Runs like a sewing machine" to me screams V8. Just my opinion though.

You seem very concerned about the 250. Just don’t buy one.

 

[Jetboy]

The LC200 started around $35k in many markets. The idea that it was a magic unicorn $80k SUV that couldn't ever be replicated for a lower price is simply not true. It was the USA trim that was so expensive. Not the base vehicle. Is it built to a high standard? Absolutely. Is it uniquely durable? No more or less than a SR5 Tundra for $35k that shares most of the parts except for heavier duty running gear. That's not a slight. It's just reality. It's a great platform. It's just 20 year old. It's entering the meh years between about 20 years old and 40 years old where they tend to make that u shaped value curve back to being collectable.

The resale shouldn't matter much if the idea is to buy a vehicle and keep it for 20 years. But a year or two from now LC200's will be 20% less than a new LC250. For someone looking to pick up a cheap LC200 - I think the day is coming. Probably sooner than later. A $55 or $60k LC200 becomes a very tough sell vs a new LC250 that has more suspension travel, rear locker, twice the mpg, faster, quieter, and a warranty.

Again - not a slight for the LC200. The ones I see now at $25k for a 150k mile clean land cruiser is a pretty good value. That's an excellent starting platform for an adventure-mobile. I think it's a good value. It's the $90k ones that the dealers might as well just park out back because they're never leaving the lot.

 

[M1911]

Do you have any idea how many people will want a NA V8 in ten, twenty years??? People reallllllllly don't think about this.

Based on the sales of NA V8s currently? Very, very few.

So many people wanted the 200 Series in the US that Toyota strugged to sell 3,500 per year. The fact is, not everyone wants what you want.

 

[MrX]

Based on the sales of NA V8s currently? Very, very few.

So many people wanted the 200 Series in the US that Toyota strugged to sell 3,500 per year. The fact is, not everyone wants what you want.

Sales of NA V8s? There are zero NA V8s left (off the top of my head) except for domestic trucks and GM SUVs. Last time I checked they sell the hell out of those. Gasoline is going to be around forever, gas stations. In 10+ years people like me will still be driving my NA V8s while all this new tech is in the garbage heap. Count on it. Tough as nails V8s weren't designed and used for decades and decades just for kicks.

You guys are also wrong about 200 sales. 200 wasn't a failure, do you honestly think Lexus expected to sell 25k a year of them? They sell well over 100k of Land Cruisers/LX over the world. They're niche vehicles here. GX was Lexus' bread and butter over LX570 and 4 Runner was Toyota's over the Land Cruiser.

Toyota was fine with the sales here. Sure maybe they would have taken some more, but 200s weren't high volume vehicles for the US market.

 

[M1911]

Toyota was fine with the sales here. Sure maybe they would have taken some more, but 200s weren't high volume vehicles for the US market.

Toyota was so happy with the 200 sales that they dramatically changed the vehicle, making it cheaper, lighter, more efficient, and with a more basic interior?

If Toyota was happy with the 200 sales in the US, then they would have brought us a 300 Series Land Cruiser. But they didn’t, so they weren’t. Q.E.D.