4 banger LC, thoughts?

[Jetboy]

Really?

I didn't know they were all so close in size and WB.

Yeah, the dimensions are basically identical. That's why it doesn't make sense to me. Both have 1980mm width excluding mirrors. I think functionally the LC250 is smaller because it's a bit narrower between the doors inside by about 3 inches (just a rough guess based on the width of the center console and dash visually). But the outside dimensions are the same. The Tacoma width isn't published yet that I know of, but they said it was 3 inches wider track width on the off road trims vs the outgoing Tacoma that use the 9.5" rear axle. Old one was 64" track width, so that's 67". The LC300 is 76.8". I'm making the logic jump that they are just using the same parts on both since they opted to use the 9.5" axle.

Tundra/Sequoia at 68.4" or 69.7"(trd pro) - probably just wheel offset difference between the two.

 

[M1911]

I heard this sort of grousing long ago. I learned to drive in a 1969 Ford Falcon, with manual steering, 4-wheel unassisted drum brakes, an inline six with a carburetor, and a 3-speed automatic (my Dad was unhappy that he couldn't find one with a manual transmission). With every change of technology since then, I've heard the same sort of grousing as we see in this thread about the V8 being replaced by a turbo hybrid four. And it's always the same sort of thing -- "fuel injection is terrible and overly complex and you can't fix it, cars should still have carburetors!" Of course, what they don't tell you is that cars with carburetors weren't trouble-free -- you had to know how to start them, and it was different if the engine was hot or cold. And the carbs went out of tune regularly (hence the need for regular tune-ups). And they often didn't run well in the winter until the engine was warm, etc., etc. I heard the same sort of thing for manual choke versus automatic choke, distributor and points versus electronic ignition. You name it, someone was bitching about it.

The reality is that most cars in the 1970s were crap. My 6,000 lb, 2013 200 Series is faster than my 3,700 lb 1978 Trans Am (with the high output 6.6, manual transmission, and limited slip rear end). In fact, it is faster than some Ferraris back in the day. My 200 also gets better fuel economy than my old Trans Am. And it always starts, hot or cold. A new Camry is a better car than most everything back in the day. While I still have a hankering for a 1970's 911, I realize that is nostalgia, not logic.

I don't know what we'll be driving in 20 years. But given the history I've seen since I learned to drive in 1976, I strongly suspect that the vehicles we can buy in 20 years will be better than we can buy now. My 200 has 95,000 miles, so I won't be rushing out to replace it. But when I do replace it, I will consider the then-current Land Cruiser, even if it has a turbo hybrid four.

 

[TWILLY]

I mean... the 2UZ in the 100 is a 20 year old aging V8 that people want....

Sure, but 2023 isn't 2043; given forthcoming gains in power and efficiency, I just don't think decades-old V8 tech will be received in 20 years in the same way that it is today. There will be enthusiasts, of course, but propulsion technology will have evolved and improved unlike anything we've seen since we left the horse and buggy.

 

[MrX]

Sure, but 2023 isn't 2043; given forthcoming gains in power and efficiency, I just don't think decades-old V8 tech will be received in 20 years in the same way that it is today. There will be enthusiasts, of course, but propulsion technology will have evolved and improved unlike anything we've seen since we left the horse and buggy.

You do realize roughly half the country doesn't want to own an EV, right?? We don't want all this new tech/tree hugging crap. EVs other than Teslas are collecting dust stacked on lots around here, and it's not just here. Not all of us bow down and accept orders from NBC and a senile president. Mercedes is already bringing the V8 back.... for 2026, you've heard right? Seems the 4 cylinder 5,000 lb C63 mess wasn't too well received. Just one car company that's eating their words on electrification, and more will follow. Americans are stubborn assholes. The more I"m told to drive something like that the bigger the snowball in hell gets, the chance in hell I'd ever give up my V8 vehicles.

 

[TWILLY]

You do realize roughly half the country doesn't want to own an EV, right?? We don't want all this new tech/tree hugging crap. EVs other than Teslas are collecting dust stacked on lots around here, and it's not just here. Not all of us bow down and accept orders from NBC and a senile president. Mercedes is already bringing the V8 back.... for 2026, you've heard right? Seems the 4 cylinder 5,000 lb C63 mess wasn't too well received. Just one car company that's eating their words on electrification, and more will follow. Americans are stubborn assholes. The more I"m told to drive something like that the bigger the snowball in hell gets, the chance in hell I'd ever give up my V8 vehicles.

Did someone tell you what to drive?

Impressive anger; nice self-troll.

 

[Jetboy]

No one wants Mercedes. Period. Not with a 4cyl. Not with a V8. They're buying Teslas.

 

[2021 LC200]

Sure, but 2023 isn't 2043; given forthcoming gains in power and efficiency, I just don't think decades-old V8 tech will be received in 20 years in the same way that it is today. There will be enthusiasts, of course, but propulsion technology will have evolved and improved unlike anything we've seen since we left the horse and buggy.

Source US EIA, ofcourse who knows what politicians will try to do and people who keep voting for them.

 

[2021 LC200]

Reading through all the post I see polarizing opinions and I know, i have participated in the same owning a LC200 which quite suits my needs and likes.

Reflecting on the title of this thread though and accepting the LC250 for what it is (Land Cruiser or Land Cruiser Prado), would you rather have in the new LC250

A) the I-4 turbo hybrid, with best fuel economy
B) or the TTV6 as will be offered in the GX550 and tow capacity of 8000lbs
C) get the LC300 with the TTV6 offered in two to three trims from say $70k to $100k

I know, setting CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards and regulations aside.

My choice would be C) at a lower trim level or B), not A).

 

[2021 LC200]

Nothing last forever and the 200 is not a off roader.
The problem with the new LC is the low ground clearance and independent front suspension. That's what kills it for me just like the 200
Your mom Subaru will go where the LC200 will

I do not get your point, you are saying the following LX570 is not a good offroad built? You think your 80 with maybe some more lift and bigger wheels is a whole lot better? I think considering all things you want and are going to be doing, this LX570 will make circles around your 80 series.

 

[Romer]

So as a Moderator of this forum the chest pumping on what I think is better has detracted from this thread

Lets keep the thread on topic.

The topic is the 4TT in the 250. Yes you have voiced your opinion that the V8 is superior. I put a 383 Stroker V8 in my 40 so yes I like power too. I also drive a 200 because of the better V8 than the 100 series.

So back on topic to the 4TT engine in the 250 Land Cruiser. It is a Land Cruiser because Toyota says it is and they are the only one that can.

 

[TWILLY]

Source US EIA, ofcourse who knows what politicians will try to do and people who keep voting for them.

View attachment 3408691

This is far afield, but I would place little credence in EIA's forecasts. They're notoriously bad at forecasting uptake of new technology.

Ultimately, though, people will buy vehicles that provide the best value for suiting their needs. And as technology evolves, for very practical reasons, that will, for the vast majority of the market, increasingly involve electrification (ala 250, for example).

 

[2021 LC200]

This is far afield, but I would place little credence in EIA's forecasts. They're notoriously bad at forecasting uptake of new technology.

Ultimately, though, people will buy vehicles that provide the best value for suiting their needs. And as technology evolves, for very practical reasons, that will, for the vast majority of the market, increasingly involve electrification (ala 250, for example).

Which source is this information?

I know Rystadt is Norwegian. I also have worked quite a few years in Norway and continue to go back there for work. Due to the small population and wealth they have gathered, lots of people have ideas how they can move forward which do not seem realistic for the world at large. Norwegian who drive EV's tell me they do so because of huge tax deductions and access to parts of the road otherwise assigned to public transport, not because of the environmental aspect. In any case, whether EIA has a better prediction I do not know either, yet I believe ICE or part ICE will not disappear that quick. Find it interesting that the last Toyota boss, Akio Toyoda, did not believe too much in EV's until he had to bend to outside pressures to go and do the popular thing. Future will tell.

 

[Jetboy]

Reading through all the post I see polarizing opinions and I know, i have participated in the same owning a LC200 which quite suits my needs and likes.

Reflecting on the title of this thread though and accepting the LC250 for what it is (Land Cruiser or Land Cruiser Prado), would you rather have in the new LC250

A) the I-4 turbo hybrid, with best fuel economy
B) or the TTV6 as will be offered in the GX550 and tow capacity of 8000lbs
C) get the LC300 with the TTV6 offered in two to three trims from say $70k to $100k

I know, setting CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards and regulations aside.

My choice would be C) at a lower trim level or B), not A).

For me - it's a really tough call between a and b. I don't think the lc300 is any different functionally so I'm indifferent between 250 and 300. I'd prefer the ttv6 over the t4, but maybe not for the 10mpg hit if that's really how much different it is.

For me it kinda depends on what else I have in the driveway. If I keep my tundra or have another truck - I'll take the hybrid. If it's replacing the truck then it's a harder question. I'm really curious how the t4 hybrid performs. I might still go for the T4.

Great question.

 

[MeWantLC]

Yep, back on topic !

And, like I have "calculated" it, it would be enough !

LC250:
5000 lbs, with a 326 hp / 456 lb-ft combined gas (turbo eng)-hybrid: 15.34 lbs/hp
5000 lbs, with a 278 hp / ??? lb-ft gas (turbo eng) only: 17.99 lbs/hp
7000 lbs, fully loaded combined gas (turbo eng)-hybrid: 21.47 lbs/hp
7000 lbs, fully loaded gas (turbo eng) only: 25.18 lbs/hp

For comparison,

1997 LC80:
4834 lbs, 212 hp @ 4600 rpm / 275 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm: 22.80 lbs/hp
6834 lbs (fully loaded, bumpers, tent, etc): 32.24 lbs/hp


2013 LC200:
5730 lbs, 381 hp @ 5,600 rpm / 401 lb-ft @ 3,600 rpm: 15.04 lbs/hp

So as a Moderator of this forum the chest pumping on what I think is better has detracted from this thread

Lets keep the thread on topic.

The topic is the 4TT in the 250. Yes you have voiced your opinion that the V8 is superior. I put a 383 Stroker V8 in my 40 so yes I like power too. I also drive a 200 because of the better V8 than the 100 series.

So back on topic to the 4TT engine in the 250 Land Cruiser. It is a Land Cruiser because Toyota says it is and they are the only one that can.

 

[Romer]

If I wasn't towing I would be onboard with the 250. Towing leads me to the GX550. I likely will wait to see what the future TT6 Hybrid does

However, I could keep the 200 and use it when I have to tow and replace either the FJ40 or the Z4 with the 250 4TT Hybrid. The Z4 gets 32 MPG and is fun to drive. The 40 is a classic and I had it up for sale and then drove it more this summer and changed my mind

My wifes car will get replaced with an EV. We have Solar and charging would be free. She drives at most 30 miles a day in the city so would never need to use an external charger. We always take the cruiser when we go someplace together.

I think 1 EV and 1 ICE or rather 1 EV and 3 ICE in my situation would be a good selection and there is a potential the 250 could be one of them

 

[Zill]

If the 200 series values fall, that actually would be a good thing for me. It just means it will be cheaper to add a 2nd 200 series to the stable. Thank you early adopters, I will happily buy your 200 trade in

Gas mileage is just not a concern for me right now, and I fully accepted that going into the 200 platform. Knowing the extra gas cost is giving me reliability and that oh so sweet V8 sound which everyone loves. It’s worth every penny spent, imo.

If over the next 10 years the 250 with the TT4 hybrid shows it’s a hardy platform like the land cruisers before it, then I may consider adding a 250 as well. I just have a sneaky suspicion it’s getting harder for manufacturers to maintain high reliability with the complexity involved… Please prove me wrong Toyota.

I haven’t gotten my hands on the 250 to look at it’s build quality and driving characteristics, but the 200 is so well designed, and the 250 has some big shoes to fill. Walking into a dealer and comparing a lightly used 200 to a new 250 in the 60k price range is a no brainer choice for me. 200 series wins all day long right now on the paper specs and with the historical proven record of the 200.

 

[TWILLY]

I generated this table to better understand the potential range, payload, and fuel capacity implications of the 250's estimated fuel efficiency (27 mpg).

I did this using four hypothetical fuel capacities (17, 25, 35 and 50 gallon) and three hypothetical payload capacities (1500, 1600, 1700 lbs).

Obviously, I do not expect the 250 to come stock with more than 20 gallons (though 25 would be fantastic with over 600 miles of range), and if I had to guess, I'd guess 17 or so (which still affords 460 miles of range), but I wanted to see the implications of larger aux fuel capacity scenarios.

Included for reference are the 80, 100, and 200 series, each with a stock and doubling stock auxiliary fuel capacity scenario.

I included the older series in order to understand what the 250's payload and fuel capacity might be, given its Toyota-estimated fuel efficiency, if it were to benchmark the effective payload after fuel weight, or fuel weight as a percent of payload, of earlier US models.

Ballparking, spitballing, but interesting. No, I do not care about towing.

LC 250 - Hypothetical Fuel Capacity and Payload Scenarios
Series / Yr	Fuel Capacity (Gallons)	Est. Comb. MPG	Fuel Weight (Lbs/Gallon)	Total Fuel Weight (Lbs)	Range (Miles)	Payload (Lbs)	Fuel Lbs / Mile of Range	Fuel Weight Percent of Payload	Effective Payload After Fuel Weight
80 / 92	25.1	11	6.1	153.11	276.1	1,930.00	0.55	7.93%	1,776.89
	50	11	6.1	305	550	1,930.00	0.55	15.80%	1,625.00
100 / 2002	25.4	13	6.1	154.94	330.2	1,745.00	0.47	8.88%	1,590.06
	50	13	6.1	305	650	1,745.00	0.47	17.48%	1,440.00
200 / 2020	25.4	15	6.1	154.94	381	1,570.00	0.41	9.87%	1,415.06
	50	15	6.1	305	750	1,570.00	0.41	19.43%	1,265.00
250 / 2024 (1700 lb payload)	17	27	6.1	103.7	459	1,700.00	0.23	6.10%	1,596.30
	25	27	6.1	152.5	675	1,700.00	0.23	8.97%	1,547.50
	35	27	6.1	213.5	945	1,700.00	0.23	12.56%	1,486.50
	50	27	6.1	305	1350	1,700.00	0.23	17.94%	1,395.00
250 / 2024 (1600 lb payload)	17	27	6.1	103.7	459	1,600.00	0.23	6.48%	1,496.30
	25	27	6.1	152.5	675	1,600.00	0.23	9.53%	1,447.50
	35	27	6.1	213.5	945	1,600.00	0.23	13.34%	1,386.50
	50	27	6.1	305	1350	1,600.00	0.23	19.06%	1,295.00
250 / 2024 (1500 lb payload)	17	27	6.1	103.7	459	1,500.00	0.23	6.91%	1,396.30
	25	27	6.1	152.5	675	1,500.00	0.23	10.17%	1,347.50
	35	27	6.1	213.5	945	1,500.00	0.23	14.23%	1,286.50
	50	27	6.1	305	1350	1,500.00	0.23	20.33%	1,195.00

 

[OldCarSmell]

Europe and Oz getting a diesel mild hybrid…an American fella can dream…

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser (Prado) for Europe Has 2.8L Diesel, Mild Hybrid Coming in 2025

The world premiere of the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser is a nice lesson in catering to all expectations - the Japanese company presented versions for most regions

www.autoevolution.com

 

[shane0mack]

You do realize roughly half the country doesn't want to own an EV, right?? We don't want all this new tech/tree hugging crap. EVs other than Teslas are collecting dust stacked on lots around here, and it's not just here. Not all of us bow down and accept orders from NBC and a senile president. Mercedes is already bringing the V8 back.... for 2026, you've heard right? Seems the 4 cylinder 5,000 lb C63 mess wasn't too well received. Just one car company that's eating their words on electrification, and more will follow. Americans are stubborn assholes. The more I"m told to drive something like that the bigger the snowball in hell gets, the chance in hell I'd ever give up my V8 vehicles.

It’s Over: Mercedes-AMG CEO Says V8 Won’t Return to C63, E63 Models

Mercedes-AMG CEO Michael Schiebe confirmed that V8 engines will not return in the C63 and E63 models despite rumors to the contrary.

www.thedrive.com

 

[malden]

Europe and Oz getting a diesel mild hybrid…an American fella can dream…

Yes, we are getting the 2.8L diesel in Europe with a hybrid offering in a years time. I will be keen to see how the new Hybrid engine in the US 250 works out over time. It might be a very nice option paired with a steady diesel engine.