4 banger LC, thoughts?

[TheNomad]

Gearing is what matters.Can it use the tq and hp? Probably good to go.
The thing I immediately thought of was trail fix ability in remote locations. There is something pure about air/spark/fuel.
This thing will either go perfectly...or not go at all.

I guess the GX is close to that, but the more complex, the less you can trail fix.

 

[Bleu62]

I guess I'll step in it. Having worked on every part of my 62, and 80 series, I don't think this deserves the LC title. It looks great but the LC was made to last and made to be worked on, stripped down rebuilt and keep going. I know things are going hybrid, but water intrusion is real, especially in Australia, Central and South America and Africa, (Prado). but as a mechanic I don't think this is going to last. Will it sell a gazillion? heck yea it will. but just like everything else in the world, its watered down and called better. Ill stick w my old cars I guess. they go w my grey hair anyway.

 

[akgerman]

I've driven Jeep's 2.4L turbo 4, worked great and drove great. At least as good as the 3.6 V6. Nothing inherently wrong with a 4-cyl turbo. It'll all depend on how it's executed.

325 hp and all that torque are plenty for the vehicle. Plenty to talk about, but ultimately whether I buy one or not will be dependent on how it drives.

driven that thing too, and in 4 LO off road..the turbo is so so so loud. It was a 4xe so the all electric mode was silent, the turbo was so much louder than the v6

 

[MrX]

Feeling and sound I get but low end power, the new one beats the 200. Electric power is instant, and the electric motor will more than make up for the lack of low end from a turbo 4. It will be like power from a diesel

NA V8 power is also instant. It is what it is, the government won and we all lost. Just imagine the V8 Lexus and Toyota would have right now otherwise. The LX600 might actually be a tad desirable with a monster V8.

 

[Phillyd2]

Was a time when WE were the government. Now just compliant sheep rationalizing the insanity. Truck engines are just the initial obvious manifestation but it’s will be everywhere soon enough. Enjoy!

 

[SmokingRocks]

Since no one has brought up the most crucial thing they brought back to the US market I will;

MULTIPLE TRIM LEVELS WILL BE AVAILABLE ONCE AGAIN

The last time they did this was in the 80 series, after which they only offered the fully loaded versions here for the 100 and 200. Sales declined and everyone was like 'why did that happen'. Its simple! Not everyone wants to drop 80k on all the options, they want the base poverty pack, so they bought a different SUV. Face it, Toyota made a mistake in the US market when they nixed the lower trim packages, had they kept those packages the sales of 100 & 200's likely would've been have been higher and we may have never seen the 250 because Toyota may have just brought the 300 to the US market dealers.

I'm excited about the multiple trim packages, but have yet to figure out what I think about the 250. My gut says that we just got a rebadged Parado, time will tell if it has the true land cruiser DNA baked into it.

 

[2021 LC200]

NA V8 power is also instant. It is what it is, the government won and we all lost. Just imagine the V8 Lexus and Toyota would have right now otherwise. The LX600 might actually be a tad desirable with a monster V8.

Along the lines of wanting a natural aspirated V8 which will last forever, I find this latest generation LX570 offroad build more and more appealing, beside a nice LC200.

With the numbers of second hand LX570 sold here, this seems a very nice way to go.

 

[WTITW]

What happens when the batteries die like in all those cheap Prius’ on Craigslist? Do you replace them all and at what cost? I’m not opposed, it’s the way of the world but hyrbid doesn’t seem on first glance compatible with the rigors of a water crossing and after those batteries have ratted down 5K miles of dirt roads. And what happens to the torque once the batteries can’t deliver power anymore? Do you end up with a 5500lb vehicle with a turbo I4?

I was suprised that it tows less than the 460 or 550 even with 50% more torque. Anyone know why? 550 tows 8K with the trail package I think? Maybe higher trim LC’s will have higher tow specs as well

 

[2021 LC200]

I agree a 6 cylinder line is sweet and the origin for the Land Cruiser. All forces from pistons and piston rods and the crankshaft are balanced. If one goes up another goes down or sideways etc. No need for balancing shafts or otherwise. Next perfectly balanced is a V12, which is ofcourse 2 x inline 6 connected. For any normal vehicle this is no doubt excessive unless you are Ferrari or high end Merc S-class or can build plenty big like the Merlins and Packard V12's in WW2 planes.

For that matter I wish the LC200 had a 6 cylinder in line diesel with turbo and without DPF. Or a sweet 6 cylinder inline gasoline engine. Torque at lower revs is a challenge although with inlet manifold flaps and improvements in cylinder fill, this has been much improved or by adding a turbo.

The 3UR-FE V8 is not bad though. No turbo to fail, makes a nice sound and has decent low end torque.

 

[flx]

but have yet to figure out what I think about the 250. My gut says that we just got a rebadged Parado, time will tell if it has the true land cruiser DNA baked into it.

Those of us with real Land Cruisers

The Prado is as close from a real Land Cruiser than what you had in the US since 1984.
55, 60, 80, 100, 200, 300 are "Land Cruiser Station Wagon"
while the 90, 120, 150, 250 are "Land Cruiser Prado"
The only just "Land Cruiser" are the 20, 40 and 70 series.

What happens when the batteries die like in all those cheap Prius’ on Craigslist? Do you replace them all and at what cost? I’m not opposed, it’s the way of the world but hyrbid doesn’t seem on first glance compatible with the rigors of a water crossing and after those batteries have ratted down 5K miles of dirt roads. And what happens to the torque once the batteries can’t deliver power anymore? Do you end up with a 5500lb vehicle with a turbo I4?

I was suprised that it tows less than the 460 or 550 even with 50% more torque. Anyone know why? 550 tows 8K with the trail package I think? Maybe higher trim LC’s will have higher tow specs as well

It's a mild-hybrid so only a 1.9kWh battery. There are EcoFlow batteries bigger than that so it should not be that complicated to change, it's not a Tesla powerpack that is structural part of the chassis.
The effect of a mild-hybrid is also a lot less than for a standard hybrid so in worst case that should not be the end of the world if the effect is reduced because the battery lost of Wh.

For the tow rating I don't know, in Europe the 250 is announced with 3.5T tow rating like its predecessor. Not sure why they lowered it in the US and is-it a technical reason or just a marketing range of products trick.
For homologation purposes I think the criteria is almost only the capacity of the vehicle to brake with a trailer (so what matter is size of brakes + engine braking capability) but it's still the manufacturer that chose the number it wants to try to homologate.

 

[Nottajeep]

What happens when the batteries die like in all those cheap Prius’ on Craigslist? Do you replace them all and at what cost? I’m not opposed, it’s the way of the world but hyrbid doesn’t seem on first glance compatible with the rigors of a water crossing and after those batteries have ratted down 5K miles of dirt roads. And what happens to the torque once the batteries can’t deliver power anymore? Do you end up with a 5500lb vehicle with a turbo I4?

I was suprised that it tows less than the 460 or 550 even with 50% more torque. Anyone know why? 550 tows 8K with the trail package I think? Maybe higher trim LC’s will have higher tow specs as well

I was told the new engines with these battery assist can't run without the battery pack functioning. It's a functioning part of the driveline.
Maybe someone here can verify this.

 

[flx]

I was told the new engines with these battery assist can't run without the battery pack functioning. It's a functioning part of the driveline.
Maybe someone here can verify this.

I think the biggest issue is that the electric motor is also your starter so if you really have 0 it may be hard to start x)

 

[carboncycles]

They also purposely chose Nickel Hydride because it was more readily accessible vs lithium. I recall the engineering team discussing this when the IMAX was originally designed for the Tundra/Sequoia platform.

Lithium would have given a smaller footprint with more output, but I guess Toyota wasn't excited about having their entire operation dependent on a handful of lithium mines (e.g., China, Venezuela) in somewhat unstable geo-political regions.

I am hopefully that Toyota will eventually offer a lithium retrofit kit...but not holding my breathe.

 

[hanzo111]

I think the biggest issue is that the electric motor is also your starter so if you really have 0 it may be hard to start x)

Our rx400h (230k trouble free) is set up that way. Not entirely bad btw. I would rather have a 6 or 8 N/a but this looks like a winner! Might go the Lexus GX route depending on motor and diff lock differences.

 

[120mm]

The Prado is as close from a real Land Cruiser than what you had in the US since 1984.
55, 60, 80, 100, 200, 300 are "Land Cruiser Station Wagon"
while the 90, 120, 150, 250 are "Land Cruiser Prado"
The only just "Land Cruiser" are the 20, 40 and 70 series.

I know that.

I was throwing shade at the "but mah V8!" crowd.

IMO, when Land Cruisers became overweight whales full of gold plated soccer mom garbage, they quit being real Land Cruisers, and I have low tolerance for whining about going back to a more austere package.

 

[SnoopisTDI]

NA V8 power is also instant.

I don't know if I agree with that. Throttle responses on modern V8s are watered down, which is why you see people buying pedal commanders and the like. Different application, but one of my cars is a Mustang GT and before that I had a GTI... the GTI was far more responsive. How that correlates to off-roading, I don't really know.

I'm unsure about this 4cyl/hybrid combination though. I like that my GX470 has bumpers, skids, sliders, winch, big tires, and a few hundred pounds of camping gear and tools in the back, and can still maintain normal highway speed up a long, steep grade. Will a hybrid be able to do that? Will it maintain the rated 326hp? Call me spoiled and impatient, but I don't want to get in the right lane with the semis.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

If we could get the plain 4cyl I might actually get one of these as I know the profound reliability of that motor. But no way am I going to be in the freshman class on this buggy.

 

[Manhattan]

I have a real Land Cruiser with a real V8. Real Land Cruisers should be painfully slow - almost dangerously slow. Real Land Cruisers should get 10-14 mpg and have a range under 250 miles. Wait... that's starting to not sound so great.

I'll take a 326/465 4cyl with an 8-speed over my 276/332 V8 with a 5-speed any day. Remember - this is a TOYOTA drivetrain.

Also, this talk about "watered down", "not flagship" - come on. The 2024 Land Cruiser is more in line with what the Land Cruiser was supposed to be. Do you think the FJ40 should've morphed into a $100,000 massive luxury truck - to compete with the Escalade? Toyota should've done this years ago. I mean for *#$^ sake - they have Lexus. That's where the Escalade competitor should be - the LX600. It was dumb to have the 200 series and the LX - they were competing with themselves.

 

[hoser]

I know things are going hybrid, but water intrusion is real, especially in Australia, Central and South America and Africa, (Prado). but as a mechanic I don't think this is going to last. Will it sell a gazillion? heck yea it will.

The engine choices will be based on locale. Possibly a naturally aspirated 4 cyl, 3.4 V6 twin turbo, 2.8 L turbo diesel, and I believe a turbo diesel hybrid in 2025 and possibly an all electric.

 

[pawnthatdude]

Interesting how the 200 series with a big V8 is the "real Land Cruiser". I doubt people were saying that when the 200 was revealed. With a sticker price of $68,575 ($99,100 in 2023 dollars) for the 2008 Land Cruiser, and soccer mom good looks, I doubt people were singing praise for it. Someone's gotta dig up threads from then and see how many people were belly aching about "not a real Land Cruiser" in 2007.

(I love my 200, but it's not a hill I'm going to die on, times change)