350 TBI Engine Height

[Tokamak]

Engine Setback from reference

First is the center of the motor mount to the Frame/Front Crossmember intersection. 19 1/2"

Second relates this dimension to the common "back of shock tower" reference at 11".

 

[Tokamak]

Engine Angle

First I zeroed the inclinometer on the frame under the passenger door. Looking at the FSM frame diagram it appears to be a horizontal reference.

Then measured the passeger side valvecover. 3.4 degrees

 

[Tokamak]

Valvecover to aircleaner angle

Because it came up in conversation and I was there I took this measurement. Zeored on the valvecover then measured the air cleaner. 4.5 degrees. Therefore the TBI to Intake manifold is 4.5 degrees tilted forward referenced to the crank shaft. Maybe one of the GM experts can confirm the accuracy of my measurement.

 

[Tokamak]

Air Cleaner to Hood Rib clearance

Another reference point that came up in posts. 3 inches at the closest point (front).

Also the front pulley to diff at the closest verticle point 6 5/8".

Passenger side frame (center of bump stop location) to axle housing 8.5". Bump stop is 2 inches uncompressed making the clearance 6.5". Pulley and bump stop will contact at the same time during straight compression (no articulation). Bump stop will need to be shimmed. Measurements need to be made during max articulation.

 

[Tokamak]

Valvecover to Firewall Clearance

1 1/8" This is the closest point. (not counting the dizzy)

After I took this picture I didn't recognize what it was. Red firewall, black valvecover, passenger side.

 

[Tokamak]

Transfer case Output shaft Location

This is the last in this series.

The first picture shows where the the chalkline is stretched from the inside, center, rear of the cutoff crossmember tube.

The second shows that the end of the output shaft is 2 1/8" below and 1/4" behind the chalkline.

 

[Tokamak]

Body Fit for Engine Location

This is the body, hood, and bib layup for the previous measuremets.

Second is the NV4500 shifter location.

Put the seat in to locate the steering wheel distance.

 

[handcannon]

I like the very careful and meticulous methods you used for your measurements. Attention to details can make or break any project, motor swap, or the remodel and garage you mention in your build thread.

I'm impressed.

Don

 

[Tokamak]

Thanks Handcannon some call that attention to detail "Anal". When I was trying to decide what to do on the build I was looking for these type of details. Couldn't find complete details. I've never done a build up like this before so I'm doing a lot of double checking. These measurements will let me verify where everything goes after the body is removed and I start welding brackets.

As a side note I found a possible answer to the angle (4 1/2 deg) of the intake manifold/Carb Interface. Summit racing has a wedge by Moroso the adds back the 'optimum 5 degrees' (on level manifolds) to compensate for fuel movement in the float bowel under hard acceleration. Shouldn't matter with TBI. Still looking for more stories on why have the angle.

Talked to Kent at General Driveshaft Service (2 blocks down the street) about what he needs to do my driveshafts.
Starting to layout and measure my steering column angles and length.
Locating the clutch slave cylinder.
Laying out a transmission support to eliminate the AA Propeller mount.

 

[belaw]

Keep your rear drive shaft angle(s) in mind. If you're centered between the frame rails you may have a problem. Many variables there though. Lift, angle of the drive train, CV shaft or not.

I'm not sure I understand this; what problems does centering the engine present? Also, do the Firestein mounts allow any flexibility in engine placement relative to the frame centerline?

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[Cdaniel]

I'm not sure I understand this; what problems does centering the engine present? Also, do the Firestein mounts allow any flexibility in engine placement relative to the frame centerline?

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

I re learned the hard way that if you center a Chevy engine between the frame rails, in front of a Toyota xfer case, the output of the xfer doesn't align with the pinion on the axles anymore. Probably not a big deal without a suspension lift, but otherwise this can add more angle than you want on your drive shafts.

You can see some of what I went through with this in the rehab project linked in my sig.

 

[Tokamak]

If the engine is centered in the frame up front but the entire drive (engine,trans,xfer) are angled to where the output shaft is directly in front on the pinion will this cause problems? The driveline leaving the pinion will only have an upward angle on the u-joint. The drive line leaving the output shaft will have a down angle plus need to angle toward the pass side. This end will have the cv joint.
Will this work?

 

[Tokamak]

Engine and Transmission Mount

Well, taking in all of the input I was able to come up with a pretty good location and mounts. The engine is a little higher than the initial layout. Upper bolts on the Firestien Mounts were going to pass through the top web of the frame.

First I shimmed the Firestien Mounts 3/8" to the driverside. Easy without modification to the mounts.

Second, based on comments in a different thread, I fabbed up a transmission mount to eliminate the AA propeller mount. Easier than I originally thought.

The transfer case flange aligns to the pinion very well. I'll get pictures showing the alignment in the next post.

 

[Cdaniel]

Yow will be much better off with the home fab mount. Nice work!

 

[Tokamak]

Now that I have gone this far I measured the dangle of the xfer case at 4" below the frame. I think stock is around 2". The hi/lo shift shaft is almost hitting the hollow diag brace under the body in front of the gas tank bump.

Fellow Mudder Terrx suggested a 1 " body lift for a lot of good reasons. This would let me move the case up another 2" (closer to stock clearance). One inch body lift + notch the brace = 2 inches.

Comments, recommendations, suggestions?

 

[terrx]

Here's the measurements off mine for comparison:
- 11" from back of shock tower to center of motor mount on passenger side
- lower edge of harmonic balancer is 1" above bottom of frame rails
- engine is offset to driver side, looks like no more than 1/2"
- center of tcase rear output shaft is 3.75" below top of frame rails
- body lift is 1.5" hard spacer plus 1/4" or so of semi-flexible bushing (energy suspension?)

 

[Tokamak]

Thanks Terrx,
I was checking it out today and can push the transfer case up 1 3/8" withe the body up on 1" blocks. Right now the front pulley is even with the bottom of the frame rails. I can move it up another inch. I'll measure where that puts the center of the output shaft relative to the top of the frame and let you know.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

350 with Marks of Australia conversion kit. While this is not a TBI setup, the intake is pretty tall (Edlebrock Performer), and has a tall air cleaner. Carb in this setup is a Holley, since replaced by a Quadrajet.

This kit uses an Advance Adaptors motor mount kit. Note that the block hugger headers sold by AA (and probably the same as the ones SOR sells) had to be dimpled to clear the stock steering housing.

Notice the offset on the mounts to match the offset of the Toyota running gear.

There is plenty of room for an HEI distributor. The back of the SBC is forward of the firewall. The silver bellhousing is the Marks adaptor, which is sandwiched between the SBC and original Toyota bellhousing. If you look carefully you'll see the relationship. There is also reasonable clearance around the heater pipes coming out of the firewall. If the block is too far back, the valve cover can foul these, at least on a 1971.

View from the side to show height.

View from the front to show height.

The radiator (in the first pic) is a four core. I'm running an 16" flex fan (since upgraded to an 18"). It had to be installed on a 2.5" spacer, and there is ample clearance to the radiator to allow for chassis flex.

 

[bikersmurf]

Don't forget clearance for steering shafts... shouldn't be a problem with the Saginaw conversion though.

Your reference point is somewhat different, however, I think it's very similar to mine. This thread has some pictures of mine... https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/448066-sbc-swap-manual-steering-2.html

Recent measurements have my driveshafts within 1/2 an inch of the same length. I'm not sure if it's possible to have the front and rear shafts the same length with a NV4500. However, had I realized how close they were going to be, I would've adjusted the position to make them the same length.

 

[Tokamak]

Thanks for the links and picts of your builds Brian of O and Biker Smurf. Of all the searches and reading I did I never saw these. I needed to go to 19 1/2 on the engine set back otherwise the rear driveshaft would have been a CV joint with flanges.

I layed in my steering shaft and it looks like my clearance is good. The closest point is to the frame rail not the manifold.

Pulled the tub back off last night to start scoping out what I need for fuel lines. https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/603483-72-fj40-chevota-build-2.html

While the tubs off I'll lift everything another 1 3/8 - 1 1/2.