- Thread starter
- #221
Thank you @WarDamnEagle it is 24x42 with a 16’ ceiling at the peak and 11’ high at the front and rear sides and fully spray foam insulated. The front has a 10’ wide door and an 18’ wide door….one side has a 10’ wide door
35 Years in the Making! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter knuckle47
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Michael B
SILVER Star
Thank you Al!
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
I am not an HVAC expert but I would think a 3 or 4 ton heat pump would be fine in that shop. You could put the compressor unit outside by the power feed and suspend the air handler just inside, under the peak and run a central plenum. Just a thought.
Here's a photo of my indoor plenum and air handler. The outside part looks just like an AC unit sitting on a pad.
Here's a photo of my indoor plenum and air handler. The outside part looks just like an AC unit sitting on a pad.
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- Thread starter
- #224
this is a great idea… I have a call in to the guy that replaced my old a/c system 2 yrs ago…
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WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
This is a quote from you in Jon's thread:
I don’t like to hear the meter spin… in fact I pride myself in seeing the bill under $15.00 average for the last year
although for me, I spend a few hours on the weekend and an hour or two a day?
You won't be able to let the shop get really cold and expect a heat pump to bring it up to temp like a natural gas furnace. You will really need to set a minimum temperature (like 45 or 50 F for example) and go with it. It will be more than $15.
I don’t like to hear the meter spin… in fact I pride myself in seeing the bill under $15.00 average for the last year
although for me, I spend a few hours on the weekend and an hour or two a day?
You won't be able to let the shop get really cold and expect a heat pump to bring it up to temp like a natural gas furnace. You will really need to set a minimum temperature (like 45 or 50 F for example) and go with it. It will be more than $15.
- Thread starter
- #226
I kind of figured that… fortunately the insulation does help and we USUALLY don’t get those extended cold spells like we did in Vermont. I would imagine between the weather “forecast” And some planning, it will be much more manageable than what it is nowThis is a quote from you in Jon's thread:
I don’t like to hear the meter spin… in fact I pride myself in seeing the bill under $15.00 average for the last year
although for me, I spend a few hours on the weekend and an hour or two a day?
You won't be able to let the shop get really cold and expect a heat pump to bring it up to temp like a natural gas furnace. You will really need to set a minimum temperature (like 45 or 50 F for example) and go with it. It will be more than $15.
My power is on the cheaper side. Running a 3 ton heat pump 24/7 to heat a poorly insulated 5500 sq ft section of my shop to 60 degrees costs me $60 a month. The identical heat pump heating a 1500 sq ft R30 insulated space in my shop to 72 degrees is $12 a month.
Heat pumps work great when you set them and forget them. Mine are actually mini splits, no air handlers. They work surprisingly well and are cheaper to replace than a single service call from an HVAC tech.
Heat pumps work great when you set them and forget them. Mine are actually mini splits, no air handlers. They work surprisingly well and are cheaper to replace than a single service call from an HVAC tech.
My average shop bill is $114/mo. But when I moved here in 2020 after retiring I told myself I was going to have a comfortable shop despite the cost.
Two heat pumps for a 50x50x14 space. Probably overkill but that's how it was setup when I bought the place so I'm keeping it that way. I'm usually in the shop most of the day and typically turn off at night after a little experimenting and finding it cheaper than leaving running. In winter it usually doesn't go below 50-55 at night and I slowly ramp up to 64 in the morning to save kicking on the heat strips. In summer it may get up to 80+ inside at night and I run a program to bring it down to 72 by the time I get in there in the morning. Given temp/humidity, there's not too many days I can not run and just have the doors open.
Like I mentioned previously, each unit has one duct going to a single vent high on the wall and one return down low. There were two Rheems but one crapped out last year. New one is a Goodman which historically hasn't had that great of a reputation but my HVAC guy says they've really improved and have a 10-yr warranty. We'll see. I suspect I'll have to replace the other one this year. Bad thing was I also had to replace the house system last year so it was a double hit.
Two heat pumps for a 50x50x14 space. Probably overkill but that's how it was setup when I bought the place so I'm keeping it that way. I'm usually in the shop most of the day and typically turn off at night after a little experimenting and finding it cheaper than leaving running. In winter it usually doesn't go below 50-55 at night and I slowly ramp up to 64 in the morning to save kicking on the heat strips. In summer it may get up to 80+ inside at night and I run a program to bring it down to 72 by the time I get in there in the morning. Given temp/humidity, there's not too many days I can not run and just have the doors open.
Like I mentioned previously, each unit has one duct going to a single vent high on the wall and one return down low. There were two Rheems but one crapped out last year. New one is a Goodman which historically hasn't had that great of a reputation but my HVAC guy says they've really improved and have a 10-yr warranty. We'll see. I suspect I'll have to replace the other one this year. Bad thing was I also had to replace the house system last year so it was a double hit.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
My shop bill is included in the house bill so I have no idea.
I researched a lot and eventually settled on Senville. I couldn't find a bad review for them. They have real people in America that answer the phones and have brains. Daikin and Mitsubishi are 3-4x the price and do not have any warranty for self installation. Senville does warranty their units regardless of who installs them. And I could not say with any certainty that Mitsubishi or Daikin don't use parts from the exact same Chinese factories as Senville.
I'm on a separate meter for the shop so easy to track. But means a $20+/mo base meter charge. Plumb an old analog meter in at the shop if you're ever curious.
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WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Thanks. Considering what the total bill is monthly it’s almost academic.I'm on a separate meter for the shop so easy to track. But means a $20+/mo base meter charge. Plumb an old analog meter in at the shop if you're ever curious.
GE- ELECTRIC WATTHOUR METER (KWH) TYPE I70S, I-70S, FM 2S, 240V, 200A, 5 POINTER | eBay
<p>Appears to be in good condition, no damage, only some paint splatter</p><br /><p>Free shipping </p>www.ebay.com
- Thread starter
- #234
Wow, nice to hear that…. I looked at them all as well as MR. COOL (and their ceiling cassette mounted unit) Pioneer, Daikin, Mitsubishi, cooper-Hunter, Senville ..all of them and went back and forth contacting the manufacturers. Never really got any great information from them either. Senville was in the back of my mind for quite some time As I did not see any major complaints as I did with almost all of the others. Mr. Cool was the most expensive with no explanations why…no real clue as it seems they just advertise more friendly user installs. User experiences of many of them are exactly as you say…quiet as heck and operational costs are low.
My only concern was installation… many of the other reviews and videos are from people who did buy units that specified homeowner installation. I have never installed anything like this but, I’m no dummy. Did all my own electrical (from the empty panel) and I actually have a vacuum pump but never vacuumed and charged a Freon line.
I’m thinking….if I can play Land Cruiser, how hard could A/C be…..?
. With all of the great suggestions offered by the gang here, this appeals to me the most as it involves no one but me. I don’t need to depend on installer, make appointments to be here for them and can do it in my own space and timei also lucked out with the electrical… I was going to add a panel from the house to the pole barn and when the power company engineer showed up, he said…just go underground from the pole straight to the side of the building…done …so there is a separate meter And they don’t charge a fee for having it
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Install is straightforward. Good vacuum pump, decent gauge manifold, R410 adapter and orbital flaring tool are all you need. If you want to get fancy you can purge the lines with nitrogen, but it works fine to burp some 410 into the lines and suck it out after you vacuum down the system.
Running lines cleanly with smooth bends is the only time consuming part.
Edit to add- One thing I did struggle with was the orbital flare tool. I bought several, including new Rigid, that were junky. In the end I found Yellow Jacket was the only one that was made right. Then, a week later, an NOS 1990's Rigid orbital flare popped up on Ebay so I bought it too and it's pretty nice.
Running lines cleanly with smooth bends is the only time consuming part.
Edit to add- One thing I did struggle with was the orbital flare tool. I bought several, including new Rigid, that were junky. In the end I found Yellow Jacket was the only one that was made right. Then, a week later, an NOS 1990's Rigid orbital flare popped up on Ebay so I bought it too and it's pretty nice.
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Looks like R-410A has come down a lot in last year or so but aren't most new units pre-charged minimizing the amount you need to add? Or maybe I misunderstood my HVAC guy's comments.
All I have seen are pre-charged. An Hvac tech in my family told me they are charged with more than enough refrigerant. Supposedly you can lose a little if you make a mistake and there's still plenty left inside. If you do somehow find a leak after charging the system you can pump the system down by closing the discharge valve, running the pump for a bit then closing the suction valve.
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- #238
As I understand it…several units do come pre-charged but there are a few others that do not and the intimidation of “ flaring” “vacuuming” ‘Charging” etc. Scared me off initially towards the pre-charged units. the Mr. Cool unit has several videos showing how easy the install is so it makes it seem as if you need an HVAC installer just to get any warranty
- Thread starter
- #239
If you do somehow find a leak after charging the system….
i have read that many of the leaks occur at the junction of the lines at the rear of the unit where the lines attach to the system lines and they are sealed with that putty sealer. My guess is @PIP, you’re pleased BUT… you have a hvac relative…
i have read that many of the leaks occur at the junction of the lines at the rear of the unit where the lines attach to the system lines and they are sealed with that putty sealer. My guess is @PIP, you’re pleased BUT… you have a hvac relative…
If you do somehow find a leak after charging the system….
i have read that many of the leaks occur at the junction of the lines at the rear of the unit where the lines attach to the system lines and they are sealed with that putty sealer. My guess is @PIP, you’re pleased BUT… you have a hvac relative…
My hvac relative in another state was a bit put off I didn't buy Daikin units like he recommended. They just didn't pencil out for me.
I did use this stuff on the flares: Amazon.com - https://www.amazon.com/Refrigeration-Technologies-RT201B-Gasket-Sealant/dp/B008HOSQQQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=1YETQ3WTB2VXJ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2e5A6M4ku8BhxNbkMi-JNrlFPh7h89P1VuNgnOSsnfUvqDi7pjwFIFl8tA2kBYHfHRLBfdIqiCmv48dyjAzQZOOKH88pyr40WcfvwSIdjtyxC1toyyet377wZiVI5X0UTHFiI5uGaWq8CDLB7VxjhyguBDFwHjHfxbNfstZ_8464UEzOK0VW61nUq4dUC9x8GxeBgUZumKQomm9wZU90qQ.atKWhCGKgI1z8YP77gljSWIkmwfZ7SObEa_d1HgpjKU&dib_tag=se&keywords=hvac+line+sealer&qid=1705637600&sprefix=hvac+line+sealer%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-8
It may be snake oil, but it makes me feel better.
