Did the solidworks model ever get built for this yet?
2F turbo
- Thread starter Mace
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You can not run a draw through set up with a gasoline carb. The fuel will freeze the turbo if you are below 50*F outside. Fuel will start to pool up at the bottom of the turbo and effectively start cooling it. I bought "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell, and he was pretty much against anything draw through but he never covered propane.
Since propane is a vapor by the time it hits the mixer, it will not matter what temperature it is outside. Also with a draw through set up for propane the mixer will still think it is on an intake manifold and not on the inlet side of the turbo. The inlet will act like a vacuum source so the variable venture/diaphragms will react the same way.
Since propane is a vapor by the time it hits the mixer, it will not matter what temperature it is outside. Also with a draw through set up for propane the mixer will still think it is on an intake manifold and not on the inlet side of the turbo. The inlet will act like a vacuum source so the variable venture/diaphragms will react the same way.
Interesting thread. I would avoid a draw through setup personally. Especially if you are trying to add an intercooler.
I have a spare Garret T-25 I thought about using for this type of setup. Of course I also have a 5.0 302 sitting under the pole barn that would be fun as well. I'm trying to go through my head and see about laying out all the components and would love to see the status of this project.
Tripper
I have a spare Garret T-25 I thought about using for this type of setup. Of course I also have a 5.0 302 sitting under the pole barn that would be fun as well. I'm trying to go through my head and see about laying out all the components and would love to see the status of this project.
Tripper
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Folks,
This is one of my first posts and I may be committing a cardinal sin early on in my time here. I posted a longer version of this question on ATLASS's 81 restoration thread. Does anyone have recommendation of a turbo kit for the 2F engine? If no such thing exists, is there a parts list Mace?
Thanks to all and remember to be kind to the newbie.
This is one of my first posts and I may be committing a cardinal sin early on in my time here. I posted a longer version of this question on ATLASS's 81 restoration thread. Does anyone have recommendation of a turbo kit for the 2F engine? If no such thing exists, is there a parts list Mace?
Thanks to all and remember to be kind to the newbie.
I'm not sure about a kit for this specific application however when I was rebuilding my Talon, I went through as much turbo info I could find. Here are some links that might help a few people.
Basic diagram:
http://www.gcg.com.au/Technical Data/turbo_sys.jpg
2f with fuel injection and turbo (T3)
FJ40SS - Toyota Trails
Tripper
Basic diagram:
http://www.gcg.com.au/Technical Data/turbo_sys.jpg
2f with fuel injection and turbo (T3)
FJ40SS - Toyota Trails
Tripper
- Thread starter
- #87
You are kidding right???
Go look at Old VW bug turbo systems. Lots are draw through. And do very well at cold temps..
Do you know what it takes to freeze gasoline?????
Corky is an excellent resource. The reason he prefers blow through turbo's is because of throttle response. And the length of a "charged" pipe.
Jim Did a good job on his setup but IIRC he had some major problems with the intake manifold cracking..
jabxyz, there is no kit. Hopefully I'll have my adapter back today and I can start putting my 40 back together.. I'll list all of the parts necessary as I go..
No I am not kidding.
Quoted from my book:
"The primary concern in the draw through layout is the air/fuel mixture be permitted to flow downhill at all times. This condition is not possible due to the compressor inlet scroll, but no other item should be allowed to serve as a low point. Fuel tends to drop out of the mixture and puddle at the low points. Puddling will badly upset the cold idle and low speed response."
"A further addition of heat may be required to prevent carburetor icing when operating under boost. Typically, a correct air/fuel ratio will create about a 45*F temperature drop when the fuel vaporizes in the carburetor. This temperature drop, combined with a cool, damp day, will frequently cause throttle to freeze wide open when operating under boost. A fine cirumstance, cured only by adding yet more intake heat."
"Rule: The draw-through system is prone to icing at temperatures under 50*F"
*edit So I was wrong about the turbo freezing, it is the carb that will start to ice under boost. Either way draw through is not the way to go for a gasoline carb.
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- Thread starter
- #89
The turbo itself won't freeze.
The "pooling" of fuel is a minor thing unless you are looking at high performance applications. Which Corky was. It manifests itself before the turbo is warm (less than a few minutes) and from dead stop WOT circumstances. Like a drag race. Even idling along there is enough turbulence and "abuse" of the fuel vapors to keep them in suspension. Besides, the turbo itself gets hot enough that any gasoline pools would be boiled off.
Carburator icing is a issue turbo or not. That is why the exhaust manifold is bolted to the intake manifold on a 40. And why they make coolant recirculators for the intake manifold. Stock bugs actually had an exhaust line going to the bottom of the carb to make cold driving more acceptable. it is not the gasoline that freezes, but ambient air moisture. And it happens in the throat and venturies of the carb. I have only had it happen to me once, and that was on a carburated 460 up at mammoth lakes cali. It was a very nasty day too.. Pulling vac from the crank case or routing the intake past the exhaust (like some of the headers have) solves the problem very well. There are lots of potential work arounds..
Better written would be
Rule: An improperly engineered draw through system will be prone to icing..
Even airplanes use draw through systems. You just have to keep in mind the potential issues and work with them..
April 2005 At The Hangar With www.FlyCorvair.com
Gas and draw through systems are very common. Saying you can not run a draw through gasoline system is just plain wrong..
I always figured that was the easiest way to turbo or supercharge anything carbed is a drawthrough. From my limited research, forcing the air through a carb will make it push out the throttle bores. They seal tight enough for average engine vacum, but not boost. Typical settup for this is to place the carb in a sealed box and force the bossted air into the box and carb, keep pressures the same inside and outside of the carb. That is if you are going for the best effeciency.
Looked like alot of work to me. But propane, looks like a great way to go, I'm anxious to see your new settup Mace.
Looked like alot of work to me. But propane, looks like a great way to go, I'm anxious to see your new settup Mace.
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Madtripper and Mace, Thanks so much. I love this site and I am learning something everyday as I read through. Mace, I look forward to as detailed a set of pics and specs as you can get. My situation is that I am nowhere near the wrenchers that you guys are and I am living overseas where I am going to take this portion of the project to mechanic/ machine shop that does restoration work. The upside is that labor costs are lower and the down side is that I will have to explain all of this in another language hence thanks again for the great explanations, pics, drawings and references. One other thing, I have begun to see references to fuel injecting the 2F engine. Same question, has a kit been developed for this yet? If not is there a parts list, pics etc. available from someone who has done it? Given that I am strongly considering turbo charging the 2F what are the views out there regarding doing both, fuel injection and turbo. Do people tend to do one of the mods and not the other or do they tend to do both as they would seem complimentary tweaks aimed at getting the most out of what is reputed to be a very hearty engine. Thanks again for suffering the newbie.
The ultimate (or at least penultimate) injected, turbo 2F thread.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/134529-2f-3f-e-=-2f-eti-into-my-fj40.html
matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
I have begun to see references to fuel injecting the 2F engine. Same question, has a kit been developed for this yet? If not is there a parts list, pics etc. available from someone who has done it? Given that I am strongly considering turbo charging the 2F what are the views out there regarding doing both, fuel injection and turbo. Do people tend to do one of the mods and not the other or do they tend to do both as they would seem complimentary tweaks aimed at getting the most out of what is reputed to be a very hearty engine. Thanks again for suffering the newbie.
Easiest way to inject a 2F is remove the head and bolt on, and it is a stright swap, a 3FE head which is injected. it will look like this
now where did I put my Turbo
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Easiest way to inject a 2F is remove the head and bolt on, and it is a stright swap, a 3FE head which is injected. it will look like this
now where did I put my Turbo
And then once you build it, you can let it sit there and admire it for weeks on end............ after all, it looks so nice on the stand who in their right mind would put it in the truck.
matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
And then once you build it, you can let it sit there and admire it for weeks on end............ after all, it looks so nice on the stand who in their right mind would put it in the truck.
I never said I was in my right mind infact my thread proves this beyond doubt
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Matt, Rockdoc, you da men I was already just beginning to think along these lines and then to be able to get hooked in to a group that has been there, done that and already has grease on the tee shirt is just great. I will now be an obediant newbie and read that thread front to back. Thanks so much guys, this site is great.
I was already just beginning to think along these lines and then to be able to get hooked in to a group that has been there, done that and already has grease on the tee shirt is just great. I will now be an obediant newbie and read that thread front to back. Thanks so much guys, this site is great.Easiest way to inject a 2F is remove the head and bolt on, and it is a stright swap, a 3FE head which is injected. it will look like this
now where did I put my Turbo
Matt, Rockdoc, you da men
Don't lump me in with Matt, I build in my mind
he does it for real
matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
Don't lump me in with Matt, I build in my mind
If George Bush new of my mind the US would invade it's a weapon of mass destruction
Ok enough of the thread high Jack you can find mine in my links below.
Back to MACE
climber8483
SILVER Star
BTTT. How are the turbo adapters coming along Mace? Anyone know what the ideal compressor trim and A/R numbers are?
hey keen to hear what your ignition setup consists of for the turbo setup??
