2F motor won’t budge but not frozen when hand cranked, (1 Viewer)

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Hi, I was looking to see if anybody knew why a 1980 fj40 2f motor won’t start, even with fully charged new battery and new starter. Just purchased from owner who said it started right up for them. Has new plugs wires and distributor cap From previous owner.

It hand cranks over and motor turns, has a fair amount of resistance when hand cranking and you can feel the compression but does not turn over when using the starter. Starter makes a “clank” noise when key is turned. There is an extra wire on new starter (not on starter that came with vehicle, coming off celenoid on the power side (not battery side) that has no connector I can find to connect it to. Maybe it’s this? I checked all the pulleys belts there’s no friction in the water pump or alternator. Removed the smog pump and pulley for it.
1E96589F-A4AF-49E4-B7B9-00B3ED8C1050.jpeg
 
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hobbes

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You should have a thick wire going from the positive battery terminal to the starter. You should also have a wire going from a starter mounting bolt to the frame. Check the quality of the connections and wires. Often the culprit is the ground wire.

The top photo is the ground wire that I highlighted in red. The bottom photo is taken from a further distance. I circled the connections to help orientation.
BAC719CF-1AD8-4842-BCB0-96D5236D39E1.jpeg
5A9440B5-49E0-4E15-AA94-A3394A55A634.jpeg
 
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Hobbes, thanks for the thoughts. Really appreciate it. I don’t think the original was grounded like that. There is a small wire that goes back into wiring harness, from batter terminal on starter. This I was thinking is used to turn starter on. So ground goes from mounting bolt for bell housing? To the frame?
 
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Hobbes, thanks for the thoughts. Really appreciate it. I don’t think the original was grounded like that. There is a small wire that goes back into wiring harness, from batter terminal on starter. This I was thinking is used to turn starter on. So ground goes from mounting bolt for bell housing? To the frame?
There is also another small gauge wire that came with starter that is opposite battery side on celenoid that I don’t know what it goes to, any idea?
 

hobbes

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Hobbes, thanks for the thoughts. Really appreciate it. I don’t think the original was grounded like that. There is a small wire that goes back into wiring harness, from batter terminal on starter. This I was thinking is used to turn starter on. So ground goes from mounting bolt for bell housing? To the frame?

I'm assuming your year FJ40 engine grounds the same as mine (starter bolt to frame). The wires in my photo are custom, so yours would look different (thinner gage). Below is a random photo of the stock ground wire (black with yellow tracer).

Most electrical issues with FJ40s come down to electrical grounds. I added a second engine ground to my (1987 FJ60) alternator bracket.

If you are missing an engine ground, be sure to make sure you have a fusible link off your battery. See website below if you need one.

#10


cheers...
 
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I'm assuming your year FJ40 engine grounds the same as mine (starter bolt to frame). The wires in my photo are custom, so yours would look different (thinner gage). Below is a random photo of the stock ground wire (black with yellow tracer).

Most electrical issues with FJ40s come down to electrical grounds. I added a second engine ground to my (1987 FJ60) alternator bracket.

If you are missing an engine ground, be sure to make sure you have a fusible link off your battery. See website below if you need one.

#10


cheers...
THank you for the images and info. I will add a second ground to it and see how it works, also grounding from alternator to frame is not a bad idea, its a super rusty frame and body panels, so the grounds all are probably loosing some contact. just strange the owner i just purchased from said it started right up... one last question on this, If the starter seems to "try" but doesnt turn engine over, clanking but not rotating, would that be lack of power from bad ground? i suppose thinking about a light how it would flicker or be dimmed if not grounded fully, explains this.
 
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Don't know if this helps - for a '76. Stock there is a black with yellow trace that runs from the starter to the ignition coil. Mine's wired non-stock, but sounds like you've got no power to the coil? The black with white is the power to the solenoid with the key at start.

Haynes1976FJ40Page1.jpg
 

hobbes

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THank you for the images and info. I will add a second ground to it and see how it works, also grounding from alternator to frame is not a bad idea, its a super rusty frame and body panels, so the grounds all are probably loosing some contact. just strange the owner i just purchased from said it started right up... one last question on this, If the starter seems to "try" but doesnt turn engine over, clanking but not rotating, would that be lack of power from bad ground? i suppose thinking about a light how it would flicker or be dimmed if not grounded fully, explains this.
Bad ground, loose battery connector, or weak battery will all cause the symptom of the starter gear engaging the flywheel but not having the torque to spin the engine. IOT, to me it sounds like the starter isn’t seeing enough current for some reason.

A cheapie battery cable from your local parts store is more than sufficient for a ground cable. Have them put a load on your battery to make sure it’s good as well (or toss some jumper cables on it and see if that helps).
 

John McVicker

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Do you have a Remote Starter? The kind we use to turn the engine over while we adjust valves or line up the marks on the flywheel.

Hook it to the battery and then down to the starter. This will tell you if it’s just a wiring issue...then you at least know what your issue is.

You can buy these cheap...maybe $15 or so.
 
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Don't know if this helps - for a '76. Stock there is a black with yellow trace that runs from the starter to the ignition coil. Mine's wired non-stock, but sounds like you've got no power to the coil? The black with white is the power to the solenoid with the key at start.

View attachment 2388510
thank you for the wiring diagram, how did you get such a high quality image? my repair manual from toyota doesnt show the small words they blur out. I will look at the wire when adding a few grounds and see how it works out. guessing its a ground issue. cheers -max
 
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Do you have a Remote Starter? The kind we use to turn the engine over while we adjust valves or line up the marks on the flywheel.

Hook it to the battery and then down to the starter. This will tell you if it’s just a wiring issue...then you at least know what your issue is.

You can buy these cheap...maybe $15 or so.
Good idea, i just learned about this earlier today. I will look into it and see if bypassing the electrical system shows the seized motor or electrical issue. cheers -max
 
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Update: No luck yet, but the following have been completed:
1. the starter has its own ground to the frame, starter is new, cables are new and frame rust is ground cleaned to bare metal where mounting.
2. the battery has a good cleaned ground to frame.
3. the alternator has a ground direct to frame where battery grounds.
4. using stainless bolts and new 4 gauge cable copper ends.

Starter turned over once, battery reads 12.44 volts on volt meter. when using car to jump it incase batter is low, it still doesnt turn engine over just clicks and tries but cant get it to rotate. Seems like low voltage still.

Any ideas where to go from here?
 
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Don't use stainless bolts. They aren't good conductors / worse than "normal" steel.

Sounds like you have either a bad battery or bad ground. (though it could be a bad cable or bad starter).

before you start any of this, BTW, clean the batter terminals and connectors. Make them SHINY. They are lead, very soft, scrape on them with a knife if you don't have a terminal cleaner.

With a voltage meter on the battery check the voltage, should be just over 12 (12.4 or so), now crank the starter watching the voltmeter and see how far it dips, under 10 or less (maybe under 11, I'm not sure of specifics here), dead battery.

Have you charged the battery?

Have you "borrowed" a good battery? (their usually not too complicated to take out of one car and put into a another temporarily).

If the voltage doesn't dip at all when the starter's struggling, I'd guess ground or cabling. Which comes back to CLEANING THE TERMINALS. And where the copper wire connects to the lead, usually molded and wrapped and rubber and can't be cleaned, if so you might have to just replace the cables.
 
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Answer: Well you were right it was a bad battery connection on positive cable. on the battery Ground cable you can’t see inside as its cast into lead end but positive is bolted on, which i took apart and cleaned. THen cut/exposed clean wire an inch back, as old was corroded, the. Cleaned like mentioned. Next thing I knew I heard it come to life and it turned over strong!

Next is to connect gas and see if she starts!

Thanks for everyone’s advice, I will switch the stainless bolts, got some dielectric grease on the way. Felt so good and surprising to feel/hear it turn over and over!

UPDATE: Its ALIVE!! she starts but not on its own fuel, time to get fuel system going. :)

Cheers

Don't use stainless bolts. They aren't good conductors / worse than "normal" steel.

Sounds like you have either a bad battery or bad ground. (though it could be a bad cable or bad starter).

before you start any of this, BTW, clean the batter terminals and connectors. Make them SHINY. They are lead, very soft, scrape on them with a knife if you don't have a terminal cleaner.

With a voltage meter on the battery check the voltage, should be just over 12 (12.4 or so), now crank the starter watching the voltmeter and see how far it dips, under 10 or less (maybe under 11, I'm not sure of specifics here), dead battery.

Have you charged the battery?

Have you "borrowed" a good battery? (their usually not too complicated to take out of one car and put into a another temporarily).

If the voltage doesn't dip at all when the starter's struggling, I'd guess ground or cabling. Which comes back to CLEANING THE TERMINALS. And where the copper wire connects to the lead, usually molded and wrapped and rubber and can't be cleaned, if so you might have to just replace the cables.
 
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