2F Engine tear down and rebuild…need advice

[neverdone]

2F, de-smogged, Weber 38 carb, headers, 92,000 or 192,000 miles. I’ve had it for 18 years. I’ve never rebuilt an engine, but rebuilt everything else on here over the years.

Small oil leaks have gotten bigger, valves have slowly gotten more noisy than normal (despite valve adjustments and engine tuning), and always had a pretty loud ticking that has also gotten much louder.

So decided to remove engine, tear down, measure all tolerances, replace what needs it and rebuild!!

Here are some general pics.

 

[neverdone]

N

 

[neverdone]

So here’s my first question:
If the cam bearing journals are out of spec, do I need to replace the cam? Or can you get bigger bearings?
#1 (1.8879) below minimum limit (1.8880 in)
#2 (1.8288) below minimum limit (1.8289 in)
#3 at spec minimum limit (1.7699). Can’t catch nail on grove.
#4 at spec minimum limit (1.7108)

Need to upgrade timing gear to one that is solid piece.

Everything else on the cam was in spec.

 

[charliemeyer007]

Interesting. IMHO 0.0001 isn't a lot on a tractor engine, could be a lot in a nuke reactor. Doesn't look like a good chamfer on that oil hole. How much for a new trick cam?

Maybe it was running rich or you have crappy gas in your AO, perhaps it was mostly driven as a tractor - lugging around in the lower RPM band.

What do the bore look like? Were all the rings free on the piston? What was the compression before the tear down? What was the oil pressure at idle and at mid rpm when up to operating temp?

 

[ryanwk628]

Following since I will be doing the same with a 2F I picked up. Not sure how extensive the work will be.

What do people do for head work? I have seen talk of stainless Chevy valves and more modern beehive springs, but no part numbers or specs

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Following since I will be doing the same with a 2F I picked up. Not sure how extensive the work will be.

What do people do for head work? I have seen talk of stainless Chevy valves and more modern beehive springs, but no part numbers or specs

A machine shop worth the money you are paying them should be able to get the right parts for you, if you tell them what you want.

Pro Machine in Taylorsville Utah has done a bunch of F/2F/3F motors. You could call them and ask if them for some part numbers and specs.

 

[ryanwk628]

A machine shop worth the money you are paying them should be able to get the right parts for you, if you tell them what you want.

Pro Machine in Taylorsville Utah has done a bunch of F/2F/3F motors. You could call them and ask if them for some part numbers and specs.

Thank you. I get the sense some places don't want to do a ton of extra research or experiment beyond stock (given how backed up many of them are with cookie cutter domestic V8 stuff, I can understand that) so if there is an existing formula it would be easier than reinventing the wheel. I've seen other mudders have the same experience in their threads.

Ill send a message to pro machine and see if they will share since I am in the north east.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Thank you. I get the sense some places don't want to do a ton of extra research or experiment beyond stock (given how backed up many of them are with cookie cutter domestic V8 stuff, I can understand that) so if there is an existing formula it would be easier than reinventing the wheel. I've seen other mudders have the same experience in their threads.

Ill send a message to pro machine and see if they will share since I am in the north east.

Hence my comment of 'worth the money you are paying them'.
Pro Machine did my 3.0 in my 4Runner, another club members 1FZ, and a Hi-Performance 3F, amongst other motors.

 

[neverdone]

Interesting. IMHO 0.0001 isn't a lot on a tractor engine, could be a lot in a nuke reactor. Doesn't look like a good chamfer on that oil hole. How much for a new trick cam?

Maybe it was running rich or you have crappy gas in your AO, perhaps it was mostly driven as a tractor - lugging around in the lower RPM band.

What do the bore look like? Were all the rings free on the piston? What was the compression before the tear down? What was the oil pressure at idle and at mid rpm when up to operating temp?

New Cam: around $400.
Good gas, no ethanol, ran fuel out monthly and refilled.
Definitely not driven like tractor, except when offroad!
Engine was running when disassembled, no stuck / broken rings. Rings were worn( Gap measured above maximum).
Bore look smooth, I haven't measured for wear yet.
Not sure about oil pressure. According to gauge, looked like it always has, and yes the gauge was working!!
Compression:
#1:153
#2:148
#3:142
#4:134
#5:146
#6:150

 

[neverdone]

Here’s what cam journal bearings look like. #3 from front looks different from others. More irregular wear.

 

[neverdone]

So question is, If the cam bearing journals are out of spec, do I need to replace the cam? Or can you get bigger bearings?

 

[OlYellr]

you can get bigger cam bearings - I just finished my 2f rebuild 3 weeks ago - took a few attempts - some deets on my thread (was my first engine build - some things were 'effed by me, some not - oh well)

JimC posted what to do with the Head for chevy valves

2F head rebuild threads - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2f-head-rebuild-threads.1034249/page-2#post-13196651 (Here is his post to save some searching )

That head is for domed pistons - secure new ones if going that way - I got the performance dome pistons from JimC - not quite last resort, but pretty close. Glad I have them too. I can accelerate going uphill. I had a place for 40 over domed - they found some in the Land Down Under - shipping was over a month - row boat I guess. I got impatient canceled and bought the performance one. Manafre I think sells the performance too or Red Line - can't remember off had.

There are threads about using Delta Cam to do a performance grind to cam - I seriously though about it - still not sure I did the right thing not sending it to them. (was looking a the grind for more air at higher rpm = highway speed vs torque with stock. It was about a 4 day turnaround - I can't remember the quote they sent exactly - but a couple $Benjamins was all.

here is a link to confuse you - there are others if you search delta cam
KC850-250s cam shaft grind from Delta - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/kc850-250s-cam-shaft-grind-from-delta.366773/

I can't remember which set of bearing came from where (cam, rod, main) -

cam bearing were OEM that I got - here is a listing of the OEM size available. (I fuc$&d one main bearing on install - it didn't spin and ruin the engine, I caught is while testing - but jacked the cam and crank - about what your cam looks like - maybe they can polish it, hard to tell from just picts)
Camshaft & valve for Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40L - Genuine parts - https://toyota-usa.epc-data.com/land_cruiser/fj40l/3685/engine/1302/11802/

some came from Dubui from partsouq.com

Anyway - if you have questions, maybe I can answer having just completed it.

 

[OlYellr]

I will add - on the first rebuild attempt, the thrust clearances with the main bearing was not right with the brand new bearings. Others on youtube had similar issues - I had to get the crank machined 1/1000 for the thrust - else like a toothpaste cap too tight. Point is make sure you measure the thrust too with the main bearings

For me/mine, the main bearings have oversized thrusts. After getting everything back from the machine shop, mine was .010 and the problem is the bearings have a .01 oversized thrust and my crank had a standard thrust that hasn't been cut.

Put it together once as the machine shop said it would be "ok" but when had it together, it had .000 crankshaft end-play. Had it remained that way - it would not be good (think toothpaste cap too tight).

After buying several "correct" bearings - went back to the machine shop and refused to put the engine together because there was no crank shaft end-play. They then said the crank takes a very unique bearing.

here is a mud link too I found post machine shop talk the last time....2F rebuild help! Main (thrust) bearing size issue - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2f-rebuild-help-main-thrust-bearing-size-issue.1064901/

And with the other brand (Taiho - M036A since .25) - some have flanges some don't.... and we drink.

 

[neverdone]

you can get bigger cam bearings - I just finished my 2f rebuild 3 weeks ago - took a few attempts - some deets on my thread (was my first engine build - some things were 'effed by me, some not - oh well)

JimC posted what to do with the Head for chevy valves

2F head rebuild threads - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/2f-head-rebuild-threads.1034249/page-2#post-13196651 (Here is his post to save some searching )

That head is for domed pistons - secure new ones if going that way - I got the performance dome pistons from JimC - not quite last resort, but pretty close. Glad I have them too. I can accelerate going uphill. I had a place for 40 over domed - they found some in the Land Down Under - shipping was over a month - row boat I guess. I got impatient canceled and bought the performance one. Manafre I think sells the performance too or Red Line - can't remember off had.

There are threads about using Delta Cam to do a performance grind to cam - I seriously though about it - still not sure I did the right thing not sending it to them. (was looking a the grind for more air at higher rpm = highway speed vs torque with stock. It was about a 4 day turnaround - I can't remember the quote they sent exactly - but a couple $Benjamins was all.

here is a link to confuse you - there are others if you search delta cam
KC850-250s cam shaft grind from Delta - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/kc850-250s-cam-shaft-grind-from-delta.366773/

I can't remember which set of bearing came from where (cam, rod, main) -

cam bearing were OEM that I got - here is a listing of the OEM size available. (I fuc$&d one main bearing on install - it didn't spin and ruin the engine, I caught is while testing - but jacked the cam and crank - about what your cam looks like - maybe they can polish it, hard to tell from just picts)
Camshaft & valve for Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40L - Genuine parts - https://toyota-usa.epc-data.com/land_cruiser/fj40l/3685/engine/1302/11802/

some came from Dubui from partsouq.com

Anyway - if you have questions, maybe I can answer having just completed it.

Thanks for the info and links! Did you have to replace any of the valve springs? All mine are shorter than min and needing replaced.

 

[OlYellr]

I got lucky and mine all check out when they were doing the valve seals etc - I got my valve seals from @cruiseroutfit (OEM). I did get new OEM spring locks from Toyota for the spring though.

Manofre has valve springs I know off hand - don't know if oem.

 

[fjc-man]

So here’s my first question:
If the cam bearing journals are out of spec, do I need to replace the cam? Or can you get bigger bearings?
#1 (1.8879) below minimum limit (1.8880 in)
#2 (1.8288) below minimum limit (1.8289 in)
#3 at spec minimum limit (1.7699). Can’t catch nail on grove.
#4 at spec minimum limit (1.7108)

Need to upgrade timing gear to one that is solid piece.

Everything else on the cam was in spec.

View attachment 3474780

View attachment 3474781

View attachment 3474782

Did you take the circlip for the cam gear off, or was it missing when you disassembled the engine?

 

[neverdone]

Did you take the circlip for the cam gear off, or was it missing when you disassembled the engine?

fjc-man....good eyes!! I did remove the circlip on the cam gear, but no tools in my garage could get the cam gear off. waiting to take it to the machine shop with the rest of this engine. Gonna replace with one piece gear.