2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion
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That's not correct for some past gen Toyotas. My 4th gen 4Runner had a switch to lock the Torsen center diff that was separate from the range selector. The same is true of my 200 Series. You can drive either of those in 4lo unlocked. Both had lockable, limited slip Torsen center diffs.
Your 3rd gen Tacoma doesn't have a center diff. It's a part-time 4WD system. The 300 and GX550 are fulltime 4WD with lockable, limited slip Torsen center diffs and a two-speed transfer case.
Yeah, the GX 470 was very similar to the 4th Gen 4Runner in that regard. Same drivetrain as the V8 4Runner. I didn't remember about the GX 460, as I test drove that but never bought one.
460 is actually closer to the 4th Gen 4R as same with all electronic controls versus the shift handle or the 470
PN: 361006D401
Everything from 4th gen V8 4R, 5th Gen 4R limited to ‘10-‘23 GX 460 uses that same torsen unit
Torsen Diff (VF4BM) - Technical overview / Diagnostics / Troubleshooting - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion
GX - 2nd Gen (2010-2023) - Torsen Diff (VF4BM) - Technical overview / Diagnostics / Troubleshooting - NOTE: Multimeter testing required for this area for 2010-2019 models The FSM would be best but here is a document on troubleshooting various Toyota 4WD/AWD systems. The center diff/transfer case...
www.clublexus.com
PN: 361006D401
Everything from 4th gen V8 4R, 5th Gen 4R limited to ‘10-‘23 GX 460 uses that same torsen unit
Will be curious where Toyota slots this vehicle in its history timeline. Is it in the station wagon lineage or gulp, light duty?
Didn’t know that about the 4th Gen 4Runners
Guess it could land anywhere for the LC250 but you’d think for simplicity they’d just match the GX550
Sorry, I didn't mean you in my comment above. I was under the impression that the "rugged 4x4 and Wrangler/Bronco competitor" or "lower price point and off road oriented" came from Toyota when they originally announcement was made that the LC was coming back to the US.
I agree as well and figured a Prado was the most likely candidate for the US LC.
I think it's really hard to get a 150/250 series over 70k, and be competitive as you start to get some really good options at that price point. I think if Toyota drops in the rear seats from the ultra-luxury trim in the LX into the GX, I think I could get the wife to sign off at 70k, if they simply reskin the captain's chairs from the sequoia. there's no way that I could sell the GX as Lexus to most people are just fancy Toyota's.
As you mentioned, at 60k you get a lot of really good value based options
The 70K price point puts you into some exception vehicles.
AMG GLC 43
BMW X5 xDrive50e
Audi Q8 Premium
Porsche Cayenne Platinum
Land Rover Defender 110 SE
as you approach 80k you are starting to get into some really badass vehicles.
Wrangler 392's
Ram TRX
F150 Raptors
Bronco Raptors.
I'm pretty excited for the reveal, but I have to be honest, at the end of the day, the new LC is a Prado and it's really only interesting at a certain price point. Lets be honest, the Prado is pretty much's like taking that fat girl home from the bar, it might be something fun to mess around but its not something is a bunch of people are going to pay for.
The benchmark was set by the Bronco. 55K, Tripple locked, removable hardtop, TTV6 and 35's...
Your pricing is a little off. Go search all of these models brand new for 2023 and you will find your first group to be mostly priced in the low to mid $80k range with a exception here and there in the high $70k.
The second group you mentioned, again those are in the high $80k range at best with most coming in over $90k and some even crossing the $100k threshold.
Your $55k Bronco is possible depending on your configuration but many of the ones I have seen with the hard top, biggest engine, biggest tires, and extra off road goodies have a MSRP of $60k and up.
FWIW I read from a reputable source a couple months ago the LC in top spec would max out at around $65k which sounds right based on where Toyota wants to position it for the NA market.
This keeps being brought up and it is what it is but have you ever sat or drove one of these? It would be disappointing it Toyota benchmarked the LC against this. I don't care what anyone says, these things were intended to be built in mass quantities and cheap to complete with the wrangler. The price point of the LC needs to be brought back in check but this is a place for the 4R to compete against NOT the LC.
I did not fact check this but pretty sure you can't get their big boy TTV6 in the Bronco, especially @ $50K, if at all.... Maybe the smaller 2.7 and at high $50K's if that. @ near $90K your only getting the 3.0 with the Raptor Bronco.
While I have not driven the new TTv6 in the Tundra or LX,I do have a 3.5 TTV6 F-150 and can tell you this is the only motor in the lineup that would compete with the new Toyota TTV6 IF they pull it into the LC.
This is only talking motor, add in the basic no frills smaller interior/ drive terrain($55K)/ exterior and cheap overall parts the Bronco offers, again, leave that to the 4R. This LC needs to be built well with basic options or not to play with the big(er) boys. Pay a lot more for a well built slightly larger boring tank and throw on a mild lift and 35's if you wish for cheap and skip all the armor garbage, of course after you get the buy in from the wifey. Be happy with not being as cool as the Ford and Wrangler guys by rock crawling the day you took it off the lot as they tear their cheap crap up, give it 10 years then start tearing your shi@t up but also be happy knowing your still be driving your LC for another 20+ years....
Agreed, we should not be mentioning direct price benchmarking for a Toyota product vs. a Ford or Jeep. Domestic vehicle quality has improved but it is NOT Toyota quality, and it takes time and money to both design and manufacture vehicles to that level of quality. I would be perfectly OK paying ~10-15% more for a Toyota over a domestic equivalent as it is an exceptional investment when vehicle lifespan and long-term costs are considered.
However, when that delta gets to be 20, 25, 30%, it's much harder to justify.
However, when that delta gets to be 20, 25, 30%, it's much harder to justify.
The LC may turn out to be a great truck but I fear we’re going to have to pay $65-75K or more to find out. It’s going to be about the same price as the GX. Why? They are essentially the same vehicle. Production costs are the same. Production location is the same. Why would Toyota accept lower margins for one over the other? And why would they suddenly decide to sell the new LC for $25K less than in Europe. And why would they allow the LC to infringe on the 4Runner? Too many improbabilities lined up here. (I would love me a $55K LC, don’t get me wrong, and I would be first in line!)
As regards Car & Driver, they have the Defender at $57K. I went to two dealers yesterday, and the cars ranged from $88K to $120K. The cute little 75th Anniversary 2dr was a whopping $95K. When I asked the sales rep about the $57K models, they said they would call me if one came in. Wink, wink. I test drove the Defender and it was not my cup of tea, at all. Cheers.
As regards Car & Driver, they have the Defender at $57K. I went to two dealers yesterday, and the cars ranged from $88K to $120K. The cute little 75th Anniversary 2dr was a whopping $95K. When I asked the sales rep about the $57K models, they said they would call me if one came in. Wink, wink. I test drove the Defender and it was not my cup of tea, at all. Cheers.
I just took those prices from cars.com, with lot photos,
Wrangler 392's. 79,999
Ram TRX 86,750
F150 Raptors 79,450
Bronco Raptors. 81,845
Nobody is paying market adjustments anymore.
A 65k Prado is a reach. Especially in todays credit market.
right - I've seen maybe two base two-door D90's. When you look now at dealerships, a large portion of them are the V8 models, which hikes the price.
Calling it a $65k Prado is really an oversimplification but last I checked even the current GX "Prado" starts at $60k. I think a starting price around $60k is perfectly reasonable considering all the probable upgrades over the old Prado.
Your assumptions are way off. Dealers are still adding ADMs but not listing on the site.
Ford dealers are NOT selling at MSRP for broncos or raptors. Trust me I’ve been on the market for over a year.
Ford dealers are NOT selling at MSRP for broncos or raptors. Trust me I’ve been on the market for over a year.
Well companies often sell similar or identical products at two different prices to (sort of artificially) appeal to different groups of buyers, called price discrimination.
That's why the iPhone is sold at 3 different storage levels, $100-200 apart, when it costs Apple a tiny fraction of that to add more storage. Also the same for off brand cereal which is can be literally made by the brand name and then sold off to be sold as an off brand at a lower price.
Of course the margins on vehicles are tighter so there isn't as much room for multi level pricing.
Toyota market adjustments are much lower (say $500-1000) but require a length waiting period. Domestic dealers are often much more skeezy than Toyota dealers and have no qualms dropping a giant markup on something.
The "value" of a Raptor/TRX etc kind of drops when you consider you could be a normal 4x4 pickup (pick your brand), trailer, and a fast side-by-side for the same cost.....Raptor/TRX is just a image machine Ford uses to print money. Maybe I should buy some of their stock and share in the profits of selling ridiculous vehicles to clueless folks who will never put them to their intended use.
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