2022 Tundra = US 300

[Redbull]

LX570 = bad because there's not enough tech and luxury for the price, yet LC200, which has less tech, less luxury, and frequently commands a higher price = good? Logic just got Demiroed!

LC200 doesn’t command a premium when new. Cars are designed primarily for the first customers.

There is no direct competitor to the LC200 - it stands on its own so whatever shortcomings it has are easily forgiven.

The 570 is in a tough segment. And it will be compared. Now when you’re talking about $30-50k used market then the LXs strengths really come into play.

 

[AnyMal]

LX570 = bad because there's not enough tech and luxury for the price, yet LC200, which has less tech, less luxury, and frequently commands a higher price = good? Logic just got Demiroed!

Exactly

 

[AnyMal]

LC200 doesn’t command a premium when new. Cars are designed primarily for the first customers.

There is no direct competitor to the LC200 - it stands on its own so whatever shortcomings it has are easily forgiven.

The 570 is in a tough segment. And it will be compared. Now when you’re talking about $30-50k used market then the LXs strengths really come into play.

It has a ton of competition that’s why no one bought them.

 

[stonepa]

Unfortunately the fed gov will of course destroy free market and back someone’s standard at some point in either self driving or charging infrastructure.

Given the global car market, i doubt the feds would even have the ability to ‘destroy the free market’. But i for one am glad that there is not one standard. Part of the reason why full autonomous driving is so far off is due to security concerns. Already, drive by wire cars with over the air updates and telematics are ridiculously easy to hack into. Standardization makes it even easier as you can then have a single set of hacks for even more cars. It is as simple as spoofing the nav system, as well as the driver safety systems, which can cause all cars of a certain type to veer off the road at high speed. That tech is straightforward today. The security to prevent it is not.

I would not be surprised to see Tesla backing off their current tech because of this. The tech is not secure and the legal exposure is too high.

 

[stonepa]

Tech and luxury got intertwined because actual craftsmanship is dead. So when everything is plastic and produced at scale no matter the price range, tech fills that psychological gap for refinement.

I always like to see drivers of cars with lots of tech holding their phone to their ear when driving. They can’t even figure out Bluetooth.

 

[04UZJ100]

As the OP. WTF does this have to do with the Tundra?

 

[OSS]

Tundra > Land Cruiser > Lexus > Luxury vehicles > Current State of Luxury Vehicles > Current State of the Auto Industry > The possible future of the Auto Industry > Bluetooth > iPhones > Steve Jobs

 

[AnyMal]

Tundra > Land Cruiser > Lexus > Luxury vehicles > Current State of Luxury Vehicles > Current State of the Auto Industry > The possible future of the Auto Industry > Bluetooth > iPhones > Steve Jobs

Kevin bacon

 

[VooDoo2]

On the 200? If so, who makes them?

Aussie product. I have em on both side of the car. Little tricky to fit but work well, Zero leaks, no dust and so easy to use. Comes with glass or Metal option. I can get pricing for you but shipping from AU isnt cheap

 

[VooDoo2]

LC200 doesn’t command a premium when new. Cars are designed primarily for the first customers.

There is no direct competitor to the LC200 - it stands on its own so whatever shortcomings it has are easily forgiven.

The 570 is in a tough segment. And it will be compared. Now when you’re talking about $30-50k used market then the LXs strengths really come into play.

Have you seen the prices in Australia? resale after 3yrs is 85-90% of new price. IN many cases 2nd hand cars are sold years later for more than original prices. A new 300 series was listed and SOLD for AU$190K when new it was $145k purely due to demand. The 79 series is no differant, you can buy one, add a few mods and sell it with 20K profit (and people do this over and over again). The only car that some think is a competitor is the Y62 Nissan patrol but sales are less than 7% of the 200. partly due to no diesel option but also because of the previous models poor reliability. In the US it outsells the cruiser but quite some margin though.

 

[Angelo1]

I don’t mind all the amenities and creature comforts and any tech with practicality like surround cameras (with recording!!! Why is only Tesla doing this?!) but touchscreens do not belong in vehicles. That trend I’m afraid is here to stay.

If apples project titan is indeed a platform and not a car we are in for a real treat. Clean ui and software driven features that make sense and dont become outdated and unsupportable in a few years time is nice.

If there is a way full self driving succeeds it’s the above. Standardization is the key here and will usher multi vehicle communications on the road instead of just each car reacting to its sensors.

We are at a point now that every make has its own (bad) software suite. This hyper fragmentation is doomed to fail. That’s why everyone jumped on CarPlay. As an auto manufacturer why on earth would you spend on media / nav Design and dev when everything you do sucks compared to the tech behemoths and you have actually no data to prop it up with.

Tesla is the exception but their days in the lead are numbered.

Unfortunately the fed gov will of course destroy free market and back someone’s standard at some point in either self driving or charging infrastructure.

My 2022 X7 has surround cameras with recording. Not as good as Tesla I am sure but It records 20secs before potential crash and continues recording additional 20secs after the crash. A cool feature of my BMW is being able to take a picture of its surroundings when I’m away from it using my phone bmw app., especially when it’s been parked by valet.

 

[Angelo1]

The LX570 is a dinosaur. It’s way overvalued in its price segment. People are overpaying for “reliability”. For a luxury product, the fuel mileage/capacity is a joke, handles like a wallowing turd on anything but straight roads, Nav control system was designed by monkeys and the sunroof is tiny. Give me a 200 on better suspension all day long. But far as buying a luxury suv, the LX570 is a poor choice unless your roads don’t have bends. Here in E.TN, bends are a part of daily driving. Hopefully the new LX600 will be a much better LX and looking forward to test driving it. Finally the 600 has a much improved nav integration. I literally leased my X7 in anticipation of buying the 600 in three years. Would be great if someone can do something about the front end to add a Rhino type bumper.

 

[Tex68w]

The LX and LC are horrible in terms of a true luxury vehicle especially when compared to other available options in the segment. Reliability is a major factor in their value and overall build quality which leads to long term durability. We enjoyed our LX and I really like our LC but I don't think I could stomach paying any more than I did for the thing ($78K). There's no way I could justify full MSRP on a LC or LX after owning them, that said, I am extremely satisfied with my LC purchase and I plan to keep the thing for many years to come, which is why I can justify it at the price I paid. What I do enjoy about the LC is its ability to stay timeless in terms of looks and style so I doubt I tire of it in that regard and I very much look forward to building it out into a proper offroader as it retires from full on daily driver use.

 

[stonepa]

The LX and LC are horrible in terms of a true luxury vehicle especially when compared to other available options in the segment. Reliability is a major factor in their value and overall build quality which leads to long term durability. We enjoyed our LX and I really like our LC but I don't think I could stomach paying any more than I did for the thing ($78K). There's no way I could justify full MSRP on a LC or LX after owning them, that said, I am extremely satisfied with my LC purchase and I plan to keep the thing for many years to come, which is why I can justify it at the price I paid. What I do enjoy about the LC is its ability to stay timeless in terms of looks and style so I doubt I tire of it in that regard and I very much look forward to building it out into a proper offroader as it retires from full on daily driver use.

Kinda gives me a chuckle. A friend bought a luxury boat once. Around the same time I bought a new Bayweld fishing boat. ‘You paid $175,000 for that?’ , he laughed. He said something to the effect of ‘ I got a much more luxurious boat for less!’. True. But my boat was the ultimate luxury for me. Fit my requirements exactly, was extremely reliable, and very durable. I had zero concern with running it 100 miles one way up the coast to fish. The ultimate luxury.

His luxury boat? Something major broke every year he had it. Looked nice, very comfortable, and always in the shop. Couldn’t trust it off shore because reliability was crap. Zero luxury to me.

 

[Angelo1]

The LX and LC are horrible in terms of a true luxury vehicle especially when compared to other available options in the segment. Reliability is a major factor in their value and overall build quality which leads to long term durability. We enjoyed our LX and I really like our LC but I don't think I could stomach paying any more than I did for the thing ($78K). There's no way I could justify full MSRP on a LC or LX after owning them, that said, I am extremely satisfied with my LC purchase and I plan to keep the thing for many years to come, which is why I can justify it at the price I paid. What I do enjoy about the LC is its ability to stay timeless in terms of looks and style so I doubt I tire of it in that regard and I very much look forward to building it out into a proper offroader as it retires from full on daily driver use.

Agree. The 200 will be just as timeless as previous LC gens.

 

[AnyMal]

My 2022 X7 has surround cameras with recording. Not as good as Tesla I am sure but It records 20secs before potential crash and continues recording additional 20secs after the crash. A cool feature of my BMW is being able to take a picture of its surroundings when I’m away from it using my phone bmw app., especially when it’s been parked by valet.

Did not know they added that recording feature, we need that now more than ever. Very jealous.

BMW tech has always been top notch. They set the standard with idrive and have been in the lead ever since. I know people hated idrive in the early days but they were all behind the curve on its usefulness. Control knobs are great for in vehicle controls and a linear UI navigation is key to ease of use. This is why every single interface is now cross nav select and back (widely adopted now in anything non touch). You should be able to control anything with the same 6 input command control scheme. A lot cars are now losing this and going touch with 1 million contextual dynamic buttons. This is terrible UI and I’m so over it. I’m not a professional in the exact space but I’ve designed many complex control systems and I’m telling you right now Tesla style is doomed to fail. Also it just sucks ass if you’ve ever used it and you are not fooling you self it’s a nightmare.

 

[AnyMal]

Agree with @Angelo1 and @Tex68w both.

$100k for a lx 600 ima be a bit sour and the whole neighborhood will rub their features in my face lol…

But Angelo, it’s a GREAT ride for what it is comparing body on box frame trucks with axles. It doesn’t come close to a full IF&R or any monocoque design but for what it actually is and where it can go I would argue it’s best in class. I will also admit an IF&R Range Rover will go just about where any lx can go. But we can mod and build it to mop the floor with a Range Rover in terms of capability.

The real litmus test is coming though. Rivian R1S, Tesla offerings, hummer EV… the gap is shrinking very fast. All of them are on air ride, and all of them are several decades ahead in terrain monitoring software. We need to see how they adapt mechanically off road no one is pushing them yet.

BTW I bought mine for $60k so I’m happy, but as you all must know by now, I’m the first in line to be honest about its numerous short comings. I would never pay $100k for a new lx in 2022 without a panoramic roof lol. I’m the bourgeoise of IH8MUD, and I represent my demo!!!

 

[Angelo1]

Kinda gives me a chuckle. A friend bought a luxury boat once. Around the same time I bought a new Bayweld fishing boat. ‘You paid $175,000 for that?’ , he laughed. He said something to the effect of ‘ I got a much more luxurious boat for less!’. True. But my boat was the ultimate luxury for me. Fit my requirements exactly, was extremely reliable, and very durable. I had zero concern with running it 100 miles one way up the coast to fish. The ultimate luxury.

His luxury boat? Something major broke every year he had it. Looked nice, very comfortable, and always in the shop. Couldn’t trust it off shore because reliability was crap. Zero luxury to me.

I don’t know much about boats but I’ve never had a luxury ride from Bentley, BWM, Land Rover, Merc, Audi that has ever left me stranded in my 30yrs of owning vehicles. The biggest disappointment was my Land Rover but it never left me on the side of the road. Granted I have seen them on flatbeds. I think paying a big premium for the LC/LX legendary reliability is great for long term(8+yrs) owners. Otherwise, the fear of being stranded should be more of a concern for the very few who actually go remote and in the U.S that’s getting really rare to find and I mean not being able to have cell service to have an off-road tow service company to get you. Australia, Middle East, SA and Africa is where the LC/Hilux are worth every penny.

Agree with @Angelo1 and @Tex68w both.

$100k for a lx 600 ima be a bit sour and the whole neighborhood will rub their features in my face lol…

But Angelo, it’s a GREAT ride for what it is comparing body on box frame trucks with axles. It doesn’t come close to a full IF&R or any monocoque design but for what it actually is and where it can go I would argue it’s best in class. I will also admit an IF&R Range Rover will go just about where any lx can go. But we can mod and build it to mop the floor with a Range Rover in terms of capability.

The real litmus test is coming though. Rivian R1S, Tesla offerings, hummer EV… the gap is shrinking very fast. All of them are on air ride, and all of them are several decades ahead in terrain monitoring software. We need to see how they adapt mechanically off road no one is pushing them yet.

BTW I bought mine for $60k so I’m happy, but as you all must know by now, I’m the first in line to be honest about its numerous short comings. I would never pay $100k for a new lx in 2022 without a panoramic roof lol. I’m the bourgeoise of IH8MUD, and I represent my demo!!!

Did not know they added that recording feature, we need that now more than ever. Very jealous.

BMW tech has always been top notch. They set the standard with idrive and have been in the lead ever since. I know people hated idrive in the early days but they were all behind the curve on its usefulness. Control knobs are great for in vehicle controls and a linear UI navigation is key to ease of use. This is why every single interface is now cross nav select and back (widely adopted now in anything non touch). You should be able to control anything with the same 6 input command control scheme. A lot cars are now losing this and going touch with 1 million contextual dynamic buttons. This is terrible UI and I’m so over it. I’m not a professional in the exact space but I’ve designed many complex control systems and I’m telling you right now Tesla style is doomed to fail. Also it just sucks ass if you’ve ever used it and you are not fooling you self it’s a nightmare.

I love the idrive system. Easily the best I’ve ever used. Absolutely seamless for CarPlay, streaming music and “hey BMW” and gesture control are not gimmicks. I just say “hey BMw” for directions, temperature control, etc. and it does it. No need to touch anything on the screen or control knob unless I want to. The damn thing even has a sense of humor like Alexa. However the negative for me is the car wants to control my driving sense it’s semi-autonomous which is great for long road trips. But on windy turns and daily driving, it’s a bit to nanny for me and will literally try to overpower you if you hug the lines and bring you back center. That’s other reason I appreciate the 200, less gizmos.

 

[AnyMal]

I don’t know much about boats but I’ve never had a luxury ride from Bentley, BWM, Land Rover, Merc, Audi that has ever left me stranded in my 30yrs of owning vehicles. The biggest disappointment was my Land Rover but it never left me on the side of the road. Granted I have seen them on flatbeds. I think paying a big premium for the LC/LX legendary reliability is great for long term(8+yrs) owners. Otherwise, the fear of being stranded should be more of a concern for the very few who actually go remote and in the U.S that’s getting really rare to find and I mean not being able to have cell service to have an off-road tow service company to get you. Australia, Middle East, SA and Africa is where the LC/Hilux are worth every penny.


I love the idrive system. Easily the best I’ve ever used. Absolutely seamless for CarPlay, streaming music and “hey BMW” and gesture control are not gimmicks. I just say “hey BMw” for directions, temperature control, etc. and it does it. No need to touch anything on the screen or control knob unless I want to. The damn thing even has a sense of humor like Alexa. However the negative for me is the car wants to control my driving sense it’s semi-autonomous which is great for long road trips. But on windy turns and daily driving, it’s a bit to nanny for me and will literally try to overpower you if you hug the lines and bring you back center. That’s other reason I appreciate the 200, less gizmos.

You cant turn lane centering off? BMW typically lets you adjust everything (and have always had the most granular EQs too), thats a surprise to me.
That would go along with my major gripe on my old M4. Not being able to cold start in sport exhaust mode. Im sure theyve remedied that since 2016 though.

 

[Angelo1]

You cant turn lane centering off? BMW typically lets you adjust everything (and have always had the most granular EQs too), thats a surprise to me.
That would go along with my major gripe on my old M4. Not being able to cold start in sport exhaust mode. Im sure theyve remedied that since 2016 though.

I can turn it off but I do such a mix of driving that I forget to. No excuse on my end. Honestly, it’s hands down the best suv I’ve owned in terms of comfort and quality interior. The cockpit is like a well insulated bank vault. Maybe I just need a bigger garage. Dammit, still miss my 200