2021 LC200

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... the judge ruled that because the driver was drunk and impaired, he couldn't be held accountable for his actions....

</ rant>
Times have changed....

The law now is if you are drunk, texting or on the phone and there is an accident, you are liable for punitive damages because you were deemed aware of the risk and chose to ignore it. Bad news for the injured party is that punitive damages aren't covered by insurance. However, if you are driving an 85k truck you can probably pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whomever you hurt for driving while you are on your phone or texting.
 
It’s pretty easy. It’s under the panel below the steering wheel.
Times have changed....

The law now is if you are drunk, texting or on the phone and there is an accident, you are liable for punitive damages because you were deemed aware of the risk and chose to ignore it. Bad news for the injured party is that punitive damages aren't covered by insurance. However, if you are driving an 85k truck you can probably pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whomever you hurt for driving while you are on your phone or texting.
Exactly! Don’t know about anyone else but I need those hundreds of thousands for gas money.
 
Exactly! Don’t know about anyone else but I need those hundreds of thousands for gas money.
Times have changed....

The law now is if you are drunk, texting or on the phone and there is an accident, you are liable for punitive damages because you were deemed aware of the risk and chose to ignore it. Bad news for the injured party is that punitive damages aren't covered by insurance. However, if you are driving an 85k truck you can probably pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whomever you hurt for driving while you are on your phone or texting.

wow, that statement alone on the liability of having to pay punitive damages should be caution enough not to touch your phone while driving! We can’t fix the other guy, but we can do better ourselves... I too need the gas money, and my retirement funds!
 
wow, that statement alone on the liability of having to pay punitive damages should be caution enough not to touch your phone while driving! We can’t fix the other guy, but we can do better ourselves... I too need the gas money, and my retirement funds!
Just to be clear, I was NOT defending distracted driving. I was using that old story to show the absurdity of thinking that distracted driving, or drunk driving is or ever was, ok.

Probably preaching to the choir since we're all putting a lot of money on the line whenever we back the cruisers out of the garage.
 
Just to be clear, I was NOT defending distracted driving. I was using that old story to show the absurdity of thinking that distracted driving, or drunk driving is or ever was,

I got that your post was a rant about others.

Because so many people are NOT responsible drivers, I carry plenty of extra under-insured motorist insurance to cover any injuries to myself or my passengers. I also do not agree to waive "stacking" which some states don't allow anyhow. With stacking the insured driver and household members get the policy limit times the number of vehicles covered.

For example, if you've got 100k in UIM and three cars, the driver who caused the accident has 50k in coverage, and you've got 400k in medical bills: the first 50k comes from the other guy, the other 250k comes from your 3 UIM stacked policies and you are stuck with 100k in unpaid bills unless the other driver has assets you can collect from- savings, equity in a house, coin collection, ownership of a business or investments... since the general population doesnt often have that stuff, you might be out of luck unless the hostipal etc... will take a discount.

I'm not an insurance agent, BTW.
 
Interesting. I'll be running that past our agent in the near future for sure. We have an umbrella policy but I think that only covers our liability.
 
Times have changed....

The law now is if you are drunk, texting or on the phone and there is an accident, you are liable for punitive damages because you were deemed aware of the risk and chose to ignore it. Bad news for the injured party is that punitive damages aren't covered by insurance. However, if you are driving an 85k truck you can probably pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to whomever you hurt for driving while you are on your phone or texting.

None of this is true as stated.

No one is automatically liable for punitive damages. The law in most states is that one can be liable for punitive damages based on reckless conduct. The standard for proving punitive damages is typically clear and convincing evidence, which is higher than the typical civil standard of a preponderance of the evidence. One would have to show that the texting and driving or drinking and driving contributed to or caused the accident. The same standard would apply as to whether speeding, for instance, contributed to an accident. That would also potentially give rise to punitive damages.

There is also no prohibition on insurance covering punitive damages. Most insurance policies do in fact cover punitive damages.
 
None of this is true as stated.

No one is automatically liable for punitive damages. The law in most states is that one can be liable for punitive damages based on reckless conduct. The standard for proving punitive damages is typically clear and convincing evidence, which is higher than the typical civil standard of a preponderance of the evidence. One would have to show that the texting and driving or drinking and driving contributed to or caused the accident. The same standard would apply as to whether speeding, for instance, contributed to an accident. That would also potentially give rise to punitive damages.

There is also no prohibition on insurance covering punitive damages. Most insurance policies do in fact cover punitive damages.
Some of what you've said is accurate.

There is no per se liability for punitive damages for distracted driving, there is a claim for it which you must prove first. However, that is the same with any claim, like the personal injury claim itself where you have to prove who caused the accident and what the damages are. Absent the drunk or distracted driving, there is no claim for punitive damages. So, perhaps to be clearer I could have said "may be liable for punitive damages" when my point was that distracted driving is like drunk driving in the eyes of the law.

Car insurance and most other insurance is not liable for intentional torts, eg assault, and has exclusions for punitive damages. That doesn't mean the insurance company won't pay their policy limits to settle, but after trial is a different story. Read your policy.
 
Some of what you've said is accurate.

There is no per se liability for punitive damages for distracted driving, there is a claim for it which you must prove first. However, that is the same with any claim, like the personal injury claim itself where you have to prove who caused the accident and what the damages are. Absent the drunk or distracted driving, there is no claim for punitive damages. So, perhaps to be clearer I could have said "may be liable for punitive damages" when my point was that distracted driving is like drunk driving in the eyes of the law.

Car insurance and most other insurance is not liable for intentional torts, eg assault, and has exclusions for punitive damages. That doesn't mean the insurance company won't pay their policy limits to settle, but after trial is a different story. Read your policy.

I’ve been a personal injury lawyer for 20 years. I’m good at it. I’m pretty familiar with auto accident law. I’m not going to debate you.

There are innumerable ways to have punitive damages in an auto case absent drunk or distracted driving. You’re just wrong.

An insurer may cover punitive damages in a policy. Punitive damages are not the same thing as an intentional tort.
 
I’ve been a personal injury lawyer for 20 years. I’m good at it. I’m pretty familiar with auto accident law. I’m not going to debate you.

There are innumerable ways to have punitive damages in an auto case absent drunk or distracted driving. You’re just wrong.

An insurer may cover punitive damages in a policy. Punitive damages are not the same thing as an intentional tort.
I get your point, which is: "don't worry folks, text and drive your insurance will cover it." I disagree, and after only 19 years of commercial litigation and PI work (amongst other things), don't need to debate it.

Perhaps the insurance code is different where you practice.
 
Thousands of accidents are caused every year by distracted driving. How many of them result in substantial judgments against the driver?

I’m not saying “text away while driving and be happy.” I set my destination in Google maps before I start driving. I don’t text and drive. I don’t read incoming texts while driving. But I think that perhaps some comments here have perhaps been focused on the worst case.
 
Yes, thousands of accidents are caused by distracted driving and there aren't substantial judgments. More often than not, my guess would be, the judgments are not substantial because either the damages weren't significant, there was a failure of the proof of the distraction or the person who caused the accident is underinsured and broke.

If a distracted driver causes $2,000 in body damage and $1,000 in meds, there won't be a substantial judgment. Or, if the Plaintiff's attorney doesn't get the case in time to get the phone, its hard to make the distracted driving claim. Or if the driver had state minimums (25/50 where I am), the victim had no UIM and the driver is uncollectible, the case might not be worked as hard as it could be. Another reason might be that distracted driving judgments may be dischargeable in bankruptcy but DWI civil judgments are not under express provisions of the bankruptcy code..

Contrast that with a case with catastrophic injuries when you've got the actual phone preserved and the distracted driver was in a Wells Fargo armored car, a FedEx semi, a Bentley or an LC. In those cases, there is greater potential for a substantial judgments because the vehicles are heavy, there is likely plenty of coverage and collectability.

A question I haven't looked into is whether the newer Event Data Recorders (a/k/a black box) record the phone's connection to the factory stereo and whether the driver was on a phone call in the seconds before the crash. They typically record whether the stereo was on and I can't see why they couldn't note the blue tooth connection and if there was a call in process. Perhaps some manufacturers do. I would guess that it won't be long until they all do.

If you had the actual phone and the EDR you could corollate the time of the accident and other types of phone activity (instagram, youtube, netflix...). Obviously, no one is going to the trouble to get the EDR, extract and decode the data and then do the same to the phone in fender benders, so no substantial judgment for distraction. With Apple phones if the driver doesn't give you the password you couldn't get into it anyhow. In any event, the police usually don't keep the driver's phone as evidence even if there was a fatality. So, the clever driver gets a new phone and there goes most of your proof.

Back to my original point though, which was a response to a rant by another user about how dangerous distracted driving is: Under the law if you can prove it, you can get punitive damages (or be liable for punitive damages).
 
Back to my original point though, which was a response to a rant by another user about how dangerous distracted driving is: Under the law if you can prove it, you can get punitive damages (or be liable for punitive damages).

If there are substantial injuries, if the phone was seized, if the EDR was preserved, if the EDR was readable, if the EDR recorded data about the phone,...

Sure seems like a whole lot of ifs to me.
 
Not relevant to the original post at all, your honor. Objection to relevance sustained.

BTW, there are other ways to prove you were on the phone at the time of the accident. Witnesses, traffic cams, phone bills, your own on board camera, your I-cloud account...
 
How is ANY of this relevant to the 2021 200-series?

I agree. This guy just started spouting off stuff about distracted driving which was not correct. I corrected him and then he went further off the rails. I am not responding any further. Mods should delete all this.
 
I agree. This guy just started spouting off stuff about distracted driving which was not correct. I corrected him and then he went further off the rails. I am not responding any further. Mods should delete all this.
Actually, not incorrect but whatever. I agree it should be deleted.
 
Getting back on topic here...2021 LC might be one of the last MYs for the Cruisers. Read that they're killing it off in 2022?1
 
Getting back on topic here...2021 LC might be one of the last MYs for the Cruisers. Read that they're killing it off in 2022?1
They won’t be killing it off. They might not import the Land Cruiser into the US. The might only sell the LX 570 replacement in the US.

But that is all speculation at this point. We will know when Toyota makes a formal announcement and Toyota holds their cards close to their chest.
 

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