2013 won't start

[sleeoffroad]

Is there a battery management system available that CAN send appropriate charge levels to each battery? There are tons of other battery type chargers in other fields that either charge multiple batteries in sequence...or have separate units that send appropriate charge levels for each battery's current status. Curious why this isn't done here.

Battery Chargers - CTEK Battery Chargers

This system will do it, but again, more invasive wiring and if the box failed, you can not simply just disconnect and go. You would have to remove it and re-establish the OE wiring setup.

 

[ekberger]

I have been in discussions with HKB Electronics in Australia re: the infamous 'Alt-S' fuse in the 2017 200 series LC. We have concluded that Toyota has likely done away with the fuse and have gone with a smart charge set up for the alternator charging system. To that end, those of us with newer models may be stuck with what Mr T has now decided is best for us. I love the new ride...I hate all the electronics! My FJ62 was so simple.

 

[TonyP]

The Redarc units I posted supposedly work with "smart" alternators.

 

[ekberger]

Thanks,@TonyP they now need further investigation.

 

[steve578]

I have been in discussions with HKB Electronics in Australia re: the infamous 'Alt-S' fuse in the 2017 200 series LC. We have concluded that Toyota has likely done away with the fuse and have gone with a smart charge set up for the alternator charging system. To that end, those of us with newer models may be stuck with what Mr T has now decided is best for us. I love the new ride...I hate all the electronics! My FJ62 was so simple.

My 2016 does not have the Alt-S fuse either. I ordered the fuse with diode without realizing it. I receive it last week and confirmed that it does NOT increase the voltage. I hope the conclusion of smart charge is correct.

 

[RET2]

Progress? Go figure!!

 

[ekberger]

Ya @steve578, I did the same. Arrived today and I started looking for the Alt-S only to lead me down the road I'm on now. Perhaps we can have a fire sale! I have a whole lot more homework to do.

 

[TonyP]

Here are my volts (and the ghost of TonyP) with the diode

 

[gaijin]

Here are my volts (and the ghost of TonyP) with the diode

OK, I'll admit I'm a little confused by all this

Here'a a pic of what's on the label of by Northstar AGM battery:

What I don't know is which voltage is the voltage that should be output by the Alternator?

Is the Alternator the "Float Charge" and should that be 13.5 - 13.8 Volts? If so, then "the diode" would appear to be putting out too much voltage.

Or, is the Alternator supplying the "Cycle Service" voltage in which case that should be 14.4 - 14.8 volts? If so, then "the diode" would seem to be a good choice.

Can anyone help?

TIA

P.S. I have "The Diode" from Dirty Parts, but can't convince myself putting it in is the right thing to do ...

 

[gaijin]

Anyone?

 

[9780LC]

OK, I'll admit I'm a little confused by all this

Here'a a pic of what's on the label of by Northstar AGM battery:

What I don't know is which voltage is the voltage that should be output by the Alternator?

Is the Alternator the "Float Charge" and should that be 13.5 - 13.8 Volts? If so, then "the diode" would appear to be putting out too much voltage.

Or, is the Alternator supplying the "Cycle Service" voltage in which case that should be 14.4 - 14.8 volts? If so, then "the diode" would seem to be a good choice.

Can anyone help?

TIA

P.S. I have "The Diode" from Dirty Parts, but can't convince myself putting it in is the right thing to do ...

What's written on the battery are the battery charger requirements if you have one. Charger needs to charge the battery at 14.4 to 14.8v to obtain a full charge and once it's charged the required float or maintainer voltage is 13.5 to 13.8v to keep it there.

The stock alternator in your 2013, if it's like the one on my 2014, will put out 12.8 to 14.1 volts depending on how hot it is. My warmed up stock alternator sometimes put out less than 13v. The diode added to alt-s won't exceed 14.8v output and will never stay in the high 14s very long because as soon as the motor/alternator heats up the voltage output from the alternator will drop to say 13.4 to 14.3 (diode compensated) depending what all you have on in the car. I found that the diode did help boost the voltage output as advertised. The 12.8v I was getting without the diode when the engine was hot was not enough for me to keep my batteries charged on short around town trips. So, I think the diode add has helped me. You just don't want to go over 14.8v for too long. I don't think you'll be in danger of this at all.

The dirty parts diode has a 7.5 amp fuse and the one in your LC now is a 5.5amp fuse. TonyP is using the dirty parts diode without issue if that gives you any comfort.

 

[linuxgod]

I don't know how the alternator charges, but would recommend putting a multi-tester on the battery when its charging to see what voltage its applying. I'm going off what @9780LC wrote above on the charging rates and methods....

I tried to write up what I know about battery charging in another thread here recently:

Question to Battery Gurus...

If you don't ever drain the battery (i.e. you're using it mainly for starting) then the alternator is designed correctly to top off the battery (no need to bulk charge it) and then apply a lower voltage float charge as the engine warms up. Starting batteries are designed for 2-5% discharge during start up, whereas AGM are designed to discharge 70-80%. If you drain the AGM battery then the alternator will not charge it properly because you need to bulk charge by applying at least 14.4V @ ~5A continuously for several hours. If you simply top off a drained AGM battery and then apply a ~13.5V float charge (which is what the alternator is doing) you'll never get it fully charged and as a result the battery life and performance will suffer

This is a really good read that anyone interested in AGM batteries should peruse at some point:

Deep Cycle Battery FAQ

 

[gaijin]

What's written on the battery are the battery charger requirements if you have one. Charger needs to charge the battery at 14.4 to 14.8v to obtain a full charge and once it's charged the required float or maintainer voltage is 13.5 to 13.8v to keep it there.

The stock alternator in your 2013, if it's like the one on my 2014, will put out 12.8 to 14.1 volts depending on how hot it is. My warmed up stock alternator sometimes put out less than 13v. The diode added to alt-s won't exceed 14.8v output and will never stay in the high 14s very long because as soon as the motor/alternator heats up the voltage output from the alternator will drop to say 13.4 to 14.3 (diode compensated) depending what all you have on in the car. I found that the diode did help boost the voltage output as advertised. The 12.8v I was getting without the diode when the engine was hot was not enough for me to keep my batteries charged on short around town trips. So, I think the diode add has helped me. You just don't want to go over 14.8v for too long. I don't think you'll be in danger of this at all.

The dirty parts diode has a 7.5 amp fuse and the one in your LC now is a 5.5amp fuse. TonyP is using the dirty parts diode without issue if that gives you any comfort.

Good info. Thank you, sir.

Looks like it's time for me to gather some of my own data. I have a Bluetooth OBD tool that I can use to read system voltage, and a battery tester I can use to test alternator output. Of course, my trusty multimeter is never far from hand. I'll see what voltages look like both with and without the diode mod.

Thanks again

 

[linuxgod]

Looks like it's time for me to gather some of my own data. I have a Bluetooth OBD tool that I can use to read system voltage, and a battery tester I can use to test alternator output. Of course, my trusty multimeter is never far from hand. I'll see what voltages look like both with and without the diode mod.

If you can measure amperage as well as voltage, that's ideal. The OBD2 port will show you voltage but I don't think you can measure amperage unless you install a shunt and an amp-meter. 13.5V @ 5A or 10A signifies bulk charge to a battery that is "low", but 13.5V @ 0.5A is a trickle charge.

 

[gaijin]

OK, I finally got around to installing and testing the Dirty Parts Alternator mod.

Here's a step-by-step of what I did:

LC was all warmed up after a 30 mile trip.

For reference, a shot of the Voltmeter at idle with the stock setup:

I used a Midtronics tester to test the various parameters:

Charging voltage @ idle with stock setup was 13.54V:

After running the engine @ 2000 RPM for 15 seconds, the "Highest Average Voltage" during those 15 seconds was 13.71V:

Just for kicks, after shutting the engine off and turning on the headlights for 30 seconds to eliminate the surface charge, I measured the CCA which was 950A for a battery rated at 930A:

I then pulled the 5A ALT-S fuse and replaced it with the 7.5A Dirty Parts mod:

I then re-tested charging voltage @ idle and it was 14.16V - an increase of 0.62V over stock:

Then ran the engine @ 2000 RPM for 15 seconds, the "Highest Average Voltage" was 14.35V - an increase of 0.64V over stock:

Finally, a shot of the Voltmeter after install - showing an increase over stock:

Voltages look safe to me, don't think I'm going to blow anything up, and just might get more use out of my AGM battery. I'll keep the 5A fuse I removed handy in case things start to look screwy, but I will run with the mod for awhile.

I hope anyone interested in this mod finds this info useful.

HTH

 

[kevinfoutch]

I just ordered the 5amp diode from HKB (was this wise?). Any recent feedback from those with their diode, either HKB or dirty parts? I'm just running a g31 single battery but looking for a better charging solution for a lot of short urban driving inbetween trail runs

 

[RET2]

I'm running the HKB and it mirrors the Dirty Parts boost of approx .6 volts. An interesting find was the stock alternator is temperature compensating so when warmed to temp it can drop output by over .5 volts thereby almost negating the boost gained. kind of a catch 22. Even the CTEK 250S is temp compensating also to save your battery.

 

[Hanzo]

My 2016 does not have the Alt-S fuse either. I ordered the fuse with diode without realizing it. I receive it last week and confirmed that it does NOT increase the voltage. I hope the conclusion of smart charge is correct.

Steve,

If you still have the fuse, I’ll take it if you don’t need it.

JP

 

[1MAC]

OK, I finally got around to installing and testing the Dirty Parts Alternator mod.

Here's a step-by-step of what I did:

LC was all warmed up after a 30 mile trip.

For reference, a shot of the Voltmeter at idle with the stock setup:

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that @gaijin (our resident tire pressure expert) has a low tire pressure warning light on his display?



I also put a diode in the Alt-S circuit when I installed my X2 (Northstar?) AGM batteries and got about a 0.6V boost. Everything I've read says these batteries need it.

 

[gaijin]

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that @gaijin (our resident tire pressure expert) has a low tire pressure warning light on his display?



I also put a diode in the Alt-S circuit when I installed my X2 (Northstar?) AGM batteries and got about a 0.6V boost. Everything I've read says these batteries need it.

Not ironic at all ... it just shows that I'm smarter than the TPMS sensors - which I do not have in my tires