2013 won't start

[TonyP]

Redarc also makes DC to DC chargers that can be configured by battery type.

Yup, here are the two low voltage units in different amp configs and they both have a built-in MPPT

25A In-Vehicle DC Battery Charger (Low Voltage)
40A In-Vehicle DC Battery Charger (Low Voltage)

I do like Redarc's stuff (my dual sensing isolator has been flawless) and the Aussies rave about them. Too bad all of their inverters only output 240VAC.

 

[ekberger]

@Markuson, when you are using your CTEK charger on your dual battery system are you disconnecting, i.e., separating them such that you are charging one at a time? The concern I would have is that if you hook up the charger to the main battery and let it go to full charge you may not be fully charging the second battery. That would be an imbalance. I too was told by Slee that the CTEK charger was a good charger for the AGM's, but when I charge mine I disconnect, or separate the two so in essence am charging them as individual units. I just hook them up again after both have a full charge.

 

[TioChachie]

OP update: it was just the battery. I must have not charged it long enough when i tried to jump it the first time and was in a rush to go camping. Jumped it yesterday and i had to let it charge a couple of minutes before the starter would even click. I let it charge for another 5-10 minutes and it started up. I guess i need to go back and read whatever it is y'all have been talking about for the last 3 days. I feel like I'm hijacking a thread i created.

Anyhow, i'm back on good terms with the cruiser now that i realize she didn't let me down; she just has an idiot for an owner.

 

[TioChachie]

Thanks

 

[Markuson]

@Markuson, when you are using your CTEK charger on your dual battery system are you disconnecting, i.e., separating them such that you are charging one at a time? The concern I wold have is that if you hook up the charger to the main battery and let it go to full charge you may not be fully charging the second battery. That would be an imbalance. I too was told by Slee that the CTEK charger was a good charger for the AGM's, but when I charge mine I disconnect, or separate the two so in essence am charging them as individual units. I just hook them up again after both have a full charge.

I'm charging with the CTEK exactly as Joe at Slee set it up...meaning I do not disconnect the second battery. They installed a permanent "plug" that connects to the main battery, and I simply plug into that with no need to disconnect battery 2. It has worked extremely well.

When I plug into the main, it shows that battery's status only. Not the combination of both.

**The batteries are isolated (NOT linked) when the truck is off...unless I press the LINK button on the control unit.

Edit: Christo says that it will apply a charge to both when I plug it in. If there is no isolation going on during charge...then I was just plain wrong.

 

[TonyP]

I think we kind of hijacked your thread actually

 

[RET2]

Thanks for the end result, a lot of OP's fail to provide the end result. Did you end up replacing or just fully charging?

 

[sleeoffroad]

I'm charging with the CTEK exactly as Joe at Slee set it up...meaning I do not disconnect the second battery. They installed a permanent "plug" that connects to the main battery, and I simply plug into that with no need to disconnect battery 2. It has worked extremely well.

Mark, just to be clear on this. If you connect the CTEK charger to the main battery, the IBS system will see a charge and connect both batteries. Same as if the alternator is charging it.

I am not comfortable doing that for long extended periods since the solenoid is energized. I would disconnect the 2nd battery if you want to charge them separate.

 

[ekberger]

Christo thanks, as you explained it that is how I understood it. However, when I saw Markuson's reply I was scratching my head with the linked comment. Since you installed both our systems they should be one in the same. I will continue to charge them as separate entities.

What confuses me the most are the comments re: changing the diode to pump out some extra voltage to accommodate the AGM's. I ordered the part mentioned but I am ambivalent about installing it.

 

[Markuson]

Mark, just to be clear on this. If you connect the CTEK charger to the main battery, the IBS system will see a charge and connect both batteries. Same as if the alternator is charging it.

I am not comfortable doing that for long extended periods since the solenoid is energized. I would disconnect the 2nd battery if you want to charge them separate.

Thank you, Christo.

Anyone know if there is a dual battery manager that can direct charge to each battery in sequence, and according to its needed rate...rather than only together?

 

[RET2]

I share your ambivalence to the point of carrying the OEM part. I also installed a dual readout volt display in order to monitor status

 

[ekberger]

@Markuson, I am no expert when it comes to charging systems, however on the big military chassis I own (1078 A1), it has a 12/24V system consisting of 4 big AGM batteries some hooked in series and some parallel depending on the output voltage required. When I charge and maintained them I have to disconnect the harnes and charge them as separate entities because I would get a lot of imbalance in individual charges if I simply hooked up one expecting the charger to handle all to the required final charge. I transferred this experience to the LC dual battery system and charge them separately with the CTEK. I am familiar with the plug you mentioned connected to your main battery. Why the systems work the way they do I don't know.

Apologies to the OP that the thread got a bit off track, however I do think a lot of helpful information has been discussed.

 

[Markuson]

@Markuson, I am no expert when it comes to charging systems, however on the big military chassis I own (1078 A1), it has a 12/24V system consisting of 4 big AGM batteries some hooked in series and some parallel depending on the output voltage required. When I charge and maintained them I have to disconnect the harnes and charge them as separate entities because I would get a lot of imbalance in individual charges if I simply hooked up one expecting the charger to handle all to the required final charge. I transferred this experience to the LC dual battery system and charge them separately with the CTEK. I am familiar with the plug you mentioned connected to your main battery. Why the systems work the way they do I don't know.

Seems that this automatic linking during charge (and its approach of sending equal charge to both batteries) defeats much of the benefit of having the dual battery "manager." If you have to manually disconnect one battery to reach proper charge...it seems like the "manager" is not "managing" the two battery setup particularly well.

Is there a battery management system available that CAN send appropriate charge levels to each battery? There are tons of other battery type chargers in other fields that either charge multiple batteries in sequence...or have separate units that send appropriate charge levels for each battery's current status. Curious why this isn't done here.

 

[9780LC]

Seems that this automatic linking during charge (and its approach of sending equal charge to both batteries) defeats much of the benefit of having the dual battery "manager." If you have to manually disconnect one battery to reach proper charge...it seems like the "manager" is not "managing" the two battery setup particularly well.

Christo's concern is the solinoid of the IBS being energized for a long time. The IBS links the batteries in parallel when the main battery reaches a 13.1v charge. I have a ctek 25000 myself. It will charge both batteries initially at @14.4v for a while and then stay in float mode at 13.5v for 10 days and finally goes into pulse charge mode. I have charged my Odyssey batteries both ways......linked and separate. I never leave the charger on more than 2 days when they are linked. Charging the batteries separate is the CYA method. Something may or may not happen (solinoid overheat, fail) when they are linked and left on charge for days or weeks. My 2 cents.

 

[Markuson]

Christo's concern is the solinoid of the IBS being energized for a long time. The IBS links the batteries in parallel when the main battery reaches a 13.1v charge. I have a ctek 25000 myself. It will charge both batteries initially at @14.4v for a while and then stay in float mode at 13.5v for 10 days and finally goes into pulse charge mode. I have charged my Odyssey batteries both ways......linked and separate. I never leave the charger on more than 2 days when they are linked. Charging the batteries separate is the CYA method. Something may or may not happen (solinoid overheat, fail) when they are linked and left on charge for days or weeks. My 2 cents.

Ah. My truck is used every day, so I'm only talking about overnight charging rather than long-term storage where trickle charge might be needed. It was put to me that it's good to top off occasionally via the CTEK, but for me, that wouldn't mean charging for days or weeks at a time in my case.

 

[ekberger]

I read with interest the comments about 'tricking' the alternator to put out additional voltage and especially the comments on the amperage of the said 'Alt-S' fuse @9780LC therefore I had to look in the fuse panel of my 2017 to see if I had a 5.0A fuse or a 7.5A fuse. Much to my surprise there was none.

On the inside cover of that panel is a diagram of the actual physical fuses below. The fuse cover itself has listed a slot for the 'Alt-S 7.5A' fuse, however below it where the fuses are physically located there is nothing in the corresponding slot. Therefore I am even more confused, unless by putting an Alt-S 7.5 fuse in that slot where there is none will do the job. Don't know. Does this mean that he alternator isn't fused or that by putting an Alt-S fuse in that slot it will boost the voltage output?

 

[RET2]

That would seem to be a very good question (lack of fuse) for your local Toyota dealer? MY '17 may have brought changes

 

[9780LC]

I read with interest the comments about 'tricking' the alternator to put out additional voltage and especially the comments on the amperage of the said 'Alt-S' fuse @9780LC therefore I had to look in the fuse panel of my 2017 to see if I had a 5.0A fuse or a 7.5A fuse. Much to my surprise there was none.

On the inside cover of that panel is a diagram of the actual physical fuses below. The fuse cover itself has listed a slot for the 'Alt-S 7.5A' fuse, however below it where the fuses are physically located there is nothing in the corresponding slot. Therefore I am even more confused, unless by putting an Alt-S 7.5 fuse in that slot where there is none will do the job. Don't know. Does this mean that he alternator isn't fused or that by putting an Alt-S fuse in that slot it will boost the voltage output?

That is interesting. The fuse for a 2014 is 5 AMP.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Seems that this automatic linking during charge (and its approach of sending equal charge to both batteries) defeats much of the benefit of having the dual battery "manager." If you have to manually disconnect one battery to reach proper charge...it seems like the "manager" is not "managing" the two battery setup particularly well.

That is the nature of most dual battery systems. Their function is to disconnect the 2nd battery when the alternator is not charging, and connect when charged.

They have sense wires connected to each battery and sense the voltage of the battery. It does not know where that voltage comes from, whether it is alternator, solar, or external battery charger.

The IBS does not sense the battery is full. It only senses voltage and most "disconnect" battery systems work that way. You retain all factory functions and not disrupt the wiring from alternator to battery etc. They are add-on system that can be removed.

If you wanted to have a system that is intelligent on what battery to charge when, you would need the alternator charge to go into a "box" then the box decided which battery to charge. That changes the OE wiring/ charging system of the vehicle.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Christo's concern is the solinoid of the IBS being energized for a long time.

Yes that is correct.

The IBS links the batteries in parallel when the main battery reaches a 13.1v charge.

Actually it does not know if the battery is charged or not. It sees 13.1 v and then connects.