2013 dies repeatedly while driving down the road (9 Viewers)

[CharlieS]

Regr

I can't say if the readings are good or bad. But it's unlikely that the coolant temp sensor is the direct cause for your problems. It would certainly cause a CEL (which you aren't getting?). Coolant temp effects closed loop and open loop operation, and fuel enrichment. It won't cause a stall like that even if it were completely erroneous.

Can you clarify the situation your gauge cluster when completely dark?

Like I said, it's highly unlikely that it's a fueling or spark issue if it's not setting CELs. If you have an OBD-II reader, take a look at the short term and long term fuel trims. Are they dramatically off? That would suggest the system is compensating for some A/F issue, including fuel pump whatever issues. This would generally result in a CEL. But again, you're not getting that.

Regrettably, the dash light situation isn't consistent. In the several (dozens of stalling events over the last 3 days) the dash lights have completely shut off only twice. The dash lights remained on with the remainder.

 

[CharlieS]

Coolant temp should run about 195F. I'm going to guess the formula you're using is wrong... I believe the sensor value is -40 to 300 so you need to add 40 degrees in the formula.

The ECT value I shared is a direct reading from the OBD reader in Fahrenheit. No conversion or translation on my part.

 

[CharlieS]

Sounds like a fuel delivery issue. I'd start at the filter.

Sucks in debris, clogs flow, engine stops. No more suction and clog goes away and the car restarts. It pulls the debris in again and the cycle starts over.

My father suggested this same theory.

 

[CharlieS]

I can't say if the readings are good or bad. But it's unlikely that the coolant temp sensor is the direct cause for your problems. It would certainly cause a CEL (which you aren't getting?). Coolant temp effects closed loop and open loop operation, and fuel enrichment. It won't cause a stall like that even if it were completely erroneous.

Can you clarify the situation your gauge cluster when completely dark?

Like I said, it's highly unlikely that it's a fueling or spark issue if it's not setting CELs. If you have an OBD-II reader, take a look at the short term and long term fuel trims.

You are right, no CELs.

What are good short term and long term turn values to look for. My reader does support real time monitoring of these values.

 

[TeCKis300]

You are right, no CELs.

What are good short term and long term turn values to look for. My reader does support real time monitoring of these values.

Somewhere close to 0 for to both banks. It can and does deviate to an extent to cover for wear/tear/irregularities. Somewhere perhaps under +/- 10 is fine. The ECU must see that it's within threshold as there no CELs.

While I don't believe it's fueling, stranger things have happened. It sure seems electrical is some way. Connections, relays. To ECM most likely. But could be ignitor, fuel pump, etc. This one is a tough one to isolate without CELs.

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

Coolant temp should run about 195F. I'm going to guess the formula you're using is wrong... I believe the sensor value is -40 to 300 so you need to add 40 degrees in the formula.

Screenshot from my OBD Fusion dashboard. These values are part of the Toyota extended PIDs which I paid an extra $10 for. (As a side note A/T Pan and Engine Oil will get up to 194-196F when I'm not parked. Also "gear" is ony accurate when in D or S).

View attachment 2066894

Side note, can pm if you’d like, but please...more info on this app. Is this running on iPad? What obd dongle are you using, etc. Thanks, and apologies to the op for sidetrack.

 

[CharlieS]

Somewhere close to 0 for to both banks. It can and does deviate to an extent to cover for wear/tear/irregularities. Somewhere perhaps under +/- 10 is fine. The ECU must see that it's within threshold as there no CELs.

While I don't believe it's fueling, stranger things have happened. It sure seems electrical is some way. Connections, relays. To ECM most likely. But could be ignitor, fuel pump, etc. This one is a tough one to isolate without CELs.

STFT1 fluctuates between 0 and -2.3
LTFT1 is 3.9
STFT2 fluctuates between -0.8 and -1.6
LTFT2 is 5.5

STFT fluctuates a bit, but is in that ballpark.

 

[supdizzle]

Did you try leaving the battery disconnected for more than 30 minutes? I have read some weird things happening with our ECU's and it may just need to be completely reset? Given the intervals are the same, I am betting there is something going on there.

 

[CharlieS]

I didn't try leaving it disconnected, but can do that.

I replaced the ECT sensor (it was cheap) .and as you told me, it didn't change anything.

I decided not to pull the hatch off the fuel pump until I have the replacement parts handy. I don't want gas fumes filling the passenger compartment.

 

[CharlieS]

From the 100 forum @getco:

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes

Getting Techstream up and running can be a bit of a pain. Hopefully this helps someone get started quickly. Step 1: Purchase an OBD-II / Mini-VCI interface. - I have sold out of my cables and supply chains are back in order, so no reason to purchase more. Anything like this will work: Mini-VCI...

forum.ih8mud.com

Thanks. This seems like it should be easy, but I can't get the vmdk to boot up properly in virtualbox.

Update, I got it to work. You need to follow those directions on the link to the letter.

It requires an older and specific version of VirtualBox (5.2.4), and you "import" the VMDK file. Thanks for this detailed information.

And for any techies in the crowd, I have this working on a Macbook running OSX Mojave (10.14.4), in a Parallels Virtual Machine running 64 bit Windows 10, in a VirtualBox virtual machine running 32 bit Windows 7. USB 2.0 cable is hooked up through a USB 2.0 to 3.0 adapter to a Thunderbolt 3 port on the machine. It's amazing this all works, but it does...

 

[CharlieS]

Techstream gives me three codes that the generic OBD reader didn't. P1603, P1604 and P1605 in the Curr Conf section for the Engine and ECT system. These are Engine Stall History, Startability Malfunction and Rough Idling.

By the way, I cleaned the MAF today just to see if there was any issue there. It didn't look dirty at all. No change.

After getting these three new codes I googled them, and found this:

I'll test my fuel pump switching relay.

 

[bloc]

Good find. Swap it with another for headlights or horn or something and you can eliminate this really quickly.

 

[CharlieS]

I feel silly asking this, but which one is the fuel pump switching relay. I found the fuel pump relay, and it tested good on the bench. It is labeled "ST" in the lid of the engine bay relay box. There is another smaller (mini?) relay labeled "ST CUT". Maybe?

I switched this relay with another of the same type and it had no impact.

Wait a minute ... I screwed this up. That's the starter relay!! I need to redo this with the fuel pump relay. Sorry.

 

[CharlieS]

Where does the fuel pump hide in here? All kinds of plastic ducting obstructs a clear view of where I expected to find the access port.

 

[CharlieS]

So I am totally buying into clogged sock filter or failing fuel pump.

What I don't get is how the car starts right up most of the time immediately after stalling out. Is there a startup phase where the pump gets higher voltage and then it switches to a lower voltage (pumping less volume) after some time? If so, that might help me understand how it restarts and runs for a bit. I guess it would be kind of using up the residual pressure in the fuel system, and then stalling once it lost pressure and maybe the ECU intervenes to save the engine?

 

[CharlieS]

Anyone know where the "fuel pump ecu" (part number 89571-60030) is located?

From a PDF I found (I think it is for the 200...):
"The fuel pump circuit consists of the ECM, fuel pump and fuel pump ECU (which operates the fuel pump). Based on the engine output, the ECM determines the fuel pump speed. The speed is then converted to a duty signal and sent to the fuel pump ECU. Based on the signal sent from the ECM, the fuel pump ECU adjusts the fuel pump operation speed between 3 settings."

 

[Romer]

FSM lists these as possible causes. Last one is compression thats cut off. That doesnt seem like it would be i9t

there are other possibilities based on if it decelerates slowly or rapidly before stalling

 

[CharlieS]

FSM lists these as possible causes. Last one is compression thats cut off. That doesnt seem like it would be i9t
View attachment 2067336

there are other possibilities based on if it decelerates slowly or rapidly before stalling

Thanks!

When it stalls, it decelerates slowly, and sometimes even catches itself - restarting on its own. The times that it does this, it runs cyclically running normally for a time (minute and a quarter or so - but sometimes longer) then starts to fade out, and either stalls completely, or the vehicle seems to catch it, and jumps in rpm (as if someone stepped on the accelerator). All this seems to be controlled by the ECU without any driver inputs or intervention.

I'm sure I'm jumping to conclusions, but the fuel pump control circuit seems like it is worth exploring. That fuel pump ECU has me curious... I have the pinouts and resistance values to test it, if I can only locate it.

 

[CharlieS]

Did you try leaving the battery disconnected for more than 30 minutes? I have read some weird things happening with our ECU's and it may just need to be completely reset? Given the intervals are the same, I am betting there is something going on there.

To make sure I close the loop - I disconnected the battery for an hour or so, and when I reconnected it, it still had the stalling issue.

 

[bloc]

Where does the fuel pump hide in here? All kinds of plastic ducting obstructs a clear view of where I expected to find the access port.

View attachment 2067242

Check under the darker black plastic section to the left of the bright yellow part near the top of the image.

It has to be on that side of the truck, likely somewhat near the center of the fuel tank.