Thanks for the feedback guys. I plan to do the radiator, water pump and serpentine belt while I am under the hood. Is there any other 150k maintenance I should be paying attention to?
2008-2018 Radiator Failure and Public Service Announcement (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter jclarke450
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TLC2013
SILVER Star
here is a post with some good details:
Radiator and Additional PM Work Labor?
Hey everyone. Just picked up a 2008 LX570 (210k miles). Great history, runs perfectly. It has had most things replaced already (starter, water pump, control arms, etc), but not the radiator. I know it is on its last legs, so dropped it off to get it replaced today. Quote was for 3.8hrs...
forum.ih8mud.com
bloc
SILVER Star
Some people put a lot of emphasis on the starter because it is so difficult to bypass if it goes out. You must have two people to get it running, for instance. The truth is it happens, but not anywhere near as frequently as the radiator.
To me it depends on your use case. Mostly in town or where a tow wouldn’t crush you? Leave it. Frequently go out to the sticks solo where a truck you can’t start is a very expensive or hazardous issue? Put it on the PM list.
@bjowett, any long-term reports on this solution?
So, my radiator blew yesterday. 2013 LX570 with 120k miles. I noticed it while airing up my tires after a fishing trip. I'd checked it months ago and there was no crack.
I spent hours today pouring through this thread (I sure wish there were an easier way!) and for the benefit of the group here's a summary of my take-aways.
Stats:
- 129 reported cases on this thread—94 LCs and 35 LX570's.
- 17 of 129 cases had just cracked (not leaked yet), and the owner opted for preemptive repair
- 99% crack right below the protruding rectangular part stamp in the center top.
- Breakdown by model year: 2008s (41), '09s (19), '10s (14), '11s (14), '12 (1), '13s (24 surprisingly, 7 of which just cracked), '14s (3), and '16 (1). (12 didn't give a model year)
- 121,000 mi is the average mileage at failure, with the lowest being 59k (a '13 after 7 years), and the highest being 206k (an '09 after 11 years)
- The time between when the crack is noticeable to when it actually breaks and leaks is HUGELY variable. Mine blew before a crack was visible, and others have reported tens of thousands of miles between when they noticed a crack to when it leaked.
Immediate actions:
- Many (including myself) drove their vehicles home (and probably many miles before we noticed the leak) without issue. This is at your own risk of course, and I'm not recommending you keep driving the vehicle before it's repaired, but it will get you home. Just keep a close eye on your engine temp and keep the reserve reservoir topped off with water (preferably distilled, but you're going to have to change the fluid with the new radiator anyway). The nature of this leak is relatively slow. It's not like you have liters of coolant flooding out everywhere—more of a mist, spray, or seep.
- 'JB weld' or other epoxy type repairs are, as yet, an unproven fix, and (based on what I've seen here) should only be considered a temporary repair
Repair/replacement options:
- A new OEM replacement radiator model 16400-50384 (costs ~ $325) was released in 2018, which is a new design that addresses the failure area and appears to be superior. All previous and aftermarket (plastic) models appear to have the same design as the old flawed model.
- This new version appears to be compatible with ALL years of the 5.7L LC200/LX570
- None of the 'high-end' aftermarket aluminum radiator manufacturers appear to make them for this model. There is some disagreement as to whether 'all aluminum' is a better option anyway.
- Quoted cost of replacement with stock parts and labor ranges from $700-1700
- DIY replacement is relatively straightforward and widely recommended if you are mechanically inclined
- Mudders have had mixed success getting Toyota HQ to cover repairs (anywhere from $300 to over $1100 in credits)
- I didn't see ANY instances of Lexus HQ covering any portion of costs
On a side note, my research revealed that plastic radiators are usually made from high-temperature, glass-reinforced NYLON. I'm not a materials expert, and I don't know exactly what kind of nylon, but from this resource Material Selection Guide | Endura Plastics I'd surmise nylon 6 or 6-6 (Identify Plastics). If you had the right prep and materials, you could probably perform a decent plastic weld. This Plastic Radiator Tank Repair Kit | Airless Welders is the only true weld kit I've seen, but to my knowledge no one on the forum has yet tried it. It's a quarter cost of a new radiator, so personally I'd rather spend my money on a replacement.
After Cleaning
UPDATE 9/10/20:
I tried hotwelding 6-6 nylon into the crack and it didn't work. Still had a pinhole leak after the (very crude) attempt. Lesson's learned—1) a heat gun (what I tried to use) is not a suitable substitute for a plastic soldering iron. It scorches and separates the plastic rather than melting. 2) the plastic on top of the radiator is surprisingly thin.
I followed with a JB Weld Kwikweld patch. That held just fine and I drove several hundred miles while waiting for parts.
I ended up replacing the radiator, radiator hoses, by-pass hoses, thermostat, PCV valve, v-belt, tensioner, idler pulley, water pump, and fan bracket, and cleaned the throttle body. At 121k miles, the idler pulley was indeed in need of replacement (some grinding sounds, spun too freely) though it hadn't started making noise you'd notice when the engine was running. The fan bracket pulley felt slightly loose and spun more freely than the new part, so opted to replace.
The water pump, tensioner, and hoses were all fine, but I replaced them anyway as preventive maintenance. The fan clutch felt just fine and it's an expensive part, so I opted NOT to replace it. It's a fairly easy part to access if I need to in the future, and I learned you can rebuild them quite easily (adding silicone oil) without buying a new part.
All of my parts were OEM from my local Larry H. Miller Toyota who more or less matched the cheapest prices I found online from Lagrange Toyota in GA.
I ordered an Aisin fan clutch (fluid coupler) and fan bracket from RockAuto as well as Toyota (to compare) which were half the price of the best price Toyota could offer. The clutch was IDENTICAL. The fan bracket was just slightly different, and though both were Aisin brand, the one from Toyota looked and felt of higher quality, so that's the one I used.
Labor: For context, I've never done this before, I'm mechanically inclined, meticulous, and probably a bit slow. I was being very careful and documenting as I went. Did it on my own over the course of three days. Hours spent studying the technical service manual are not reflected below. Save yourself some time and frustration and don't putz around with 3rd party online service manual sources. Just purchase 2-day access from Toyota for $20 and screenshot the pages you need. https://techinfo.toyota.com
Remove: (unclipping and moving the top of the air cleaner along with the air hose assembly, unscrewing and moving the PS reservior, and removing the battery all make for easier access)
- Radiator, shroud, and v-belt— 3.5 hrs (would have taken less time had I been able to remove the fan first. Bolts were stuck and didn't have a pulley wrench)
- Water pump— 1.25 hrs
- Tensioner, idler pulley, and fan bracket— 30 min
- PCV— 10 min
- Throttle body— 15 min
Install:
- Tensioner, idler pulley, and fan bracket— 1 hr
- Water pump— 40 min
- Thermostat remove and replace— 15 min
- Water return and no. 2 by-pass— 45 min
- Throttle body— 20 min
- Clean pulleys (radiator fluid) and v-belt install— 20 min
- Radiator, hoses, fan, and shroud— 2.75 hrs (probably a good hour spent just on 3 hard to access bolts). Used just under 2 gal of fluid to refill
Total labor was around 12 hours. Lexus bid me $3800 to do all of this and I did it for under $1300, which included a new Milwaukee impact wrench! Amazing how agreeable the wife is to this kind of purchase when you quote the Lexus bill first!
Immediately after the repairs I took it in for a transmission fluid flush and fill. (You'll loose some removing the radiator and 120k is the replacement interval)
And in a final bit of great news, Lexus HQ agreed to reimburse me $650, which halved the cost of the entire project and more than covered my parts costs for the radiator!
JBWeld temp patch
All new and ready for another 120k! (hopefully)
I spent hours today pouring through this thread (I sure wish there were an easier way!) and for the benefit of the group here's a summary of my take-aways.
Stats:
- 129 reported cases on this thread—94 LCs and 35 LX570's.
- 17 of 129 cases had just cracked (not leaked yet), and the owner opted for preemptive repair
- 99% crack right below the protruding rectangular part stamp in the center top.
- Breakdown by model year: 2008s (41), '09s (19), '10s (14), '11s (14), '12 (1), '13s (24 surprisingly, 7 of which just cracked), '14s (3), and '16 (1). (12 didn't give a model year)
- 121,000 mi is the average mileage at failure, with the lowest being 59k (a '13 after 7 years), and the highest being 206k (an '09 after 11 years)
- The time between when the crack is noticeable to when it actually breaks and leaks is HUGELY variable. Mine blew before a crack was visible, and others have reported tens of thousands of miles between when they noticed a crack to when it leaked.
Immediate actions:
- Many (including myself) drove their vehicles home (and probably many miles before we noticed the leak) without issue. This is at your own risk of course, and I'm not recommending you keep driving the vehicle before it's repaired, but it will get you home. Just keep a close eye on your engine temp and keep the reserve reservoir topped off with water (preferably distilled, but you're going to have to change the fluid with the new radiator anyway). The nature of this leak is relatively slow. It's not like you have liters of coolant flooding out everywhere—more of a mist, spray, or seep.
- 'JB weld' or other epoxy type repairs are, as yet, an unproven fix, and (based on what I've seen here) should only be considered a temporary repair
Repair/replacement options:
- A new OEM replacement radiator model 16400-50384 (costs ~ $325) was released in 2018, which is a new design that addresses the failure area and appears to be superior. All previous and aftermarket (plastic) models appear to have the same design as the old flawed model.
- This new version appears to be compatible with ALL years of the 5.7L LC200/LX570
- None of the 'high-end' aftermarket aluminum radiator manufacturers appear to make them for this model. There is some disagreement as to whether 'all aluminum' is a better option anyway.
- Quoted cost of replacement with stock parts and labor ranges from $700-1700
- DIY replacement is relatively straightforward and widely recommended if you are mechanically inclined
- Mudders have had mixed success getting Toyota HQ to cover repairs (anywhere from $300 to over $1100 in credits)
- I didn't see ANY instances of Lexus HQ covering any portion of costs
On a side note, my research revealed that plastic radiators are usually made from high-temperature, glass-reinforced NYLON. I'm not a materials expert, and I don't know exactly what kind of nylon, but from this resource Material Selection Guide | Endura Plastics I'd surmise nylon 6 or 6-6 (Identify Plastics). If you had the right prep and materials, you could probably perform a decent plastic weld. This Plastic Radiator Tank Repair Kit | Airless Welders is the only true weld kit I've seen, but to my knowledge no one on the forum has yet tried it. It's a quarter cost of a new radiator, so personally I'd rather spend my money on a replacement.
After Cleaning
UPDATE 9/10/20:
I tried hotwelding 6-6 nylon into the crack and it didn't work. Still had a pinhole leak after the (very crude) attempt. Lesson's learned—1) a heat gun (what I tried to use) is not a suitable substitute for a plastic soldering iron. It scorches and separates the plastic rather than melting. 2) the plastic on top of the radiator is surprisingly thin.
I followed with a JB Weld Kwikweld patch. That held just fine and I drove several hundred miles while waiting for parts.
I ended up replacing the radiator, radiator hoses, by-pass hoses, thermostat, PCV valve, v-belt, tensioner, idler pulley, water pump, and fan bracket, and cleaned the throttle body. At 121k miles, the idler pulley was indeed in need of replacement (some grinding sounds, spun too freely) though it hadn't started making noise you'd notice when the engine was running. The fan bracket pulley felt slightly loose and spun more freely than the new part, so opted to replace.
The water pump, tensioner, and hoses were all fine, but I replaced them anyway as preventive maintenance. The fan clutch felt just fine and it's an expensive part, so I opted NOT to replace it. It's a fairly easy part to access if I need to in the future, and I learned you can rebuild them quite easily (adding silicone oil) without buying a new part.
All of my parts were OEM from my local Larry H. Miller Toyota who more or less matched the cheapest prices I found online from Lagrange Toyota in GA.
I ordered an Aisin fan clutch (fluid coupler) and fan bracket from RockAuto as well as Toyota (to compare) which were half the price of the best price Toyota could offer. The clutch was IDENTICAL. The fan bracket was just slightly different, and though both were Aisin brand, the one from Toyota looked and felt of higher quality, so that's the one I used.
Labor: For context, I've never done this before, I'm mechanically inclined, meticulous, and probably a bit slow. I was being very careful and documenting as I went. Did it on my own over the course of three days. Hours spent studying the technical service manual are not reflected below. Save yourself some time and frustration and don't putz around with 3rd party online service manual sources. Just purchase 2-day access from Toyota for $20 and screenshot the pages you need. https://techinfo.toyota.com
Remove: (unclipping and moving the top of the air cleaner along with the air hose assembly, unscrewing and moving the PS reservior, and removing the battery all make for easier access)
- Radiator, shroud, and v-belt— 3.5 hrs (would have taken less time had I been able to remove the fan first. Bolts were stuck and didn't have a pulley wrench)
- Water pump— 1.25 hrs
- Tensioner, idler pulley, and fan bracket— 30 min
- PCV— 10 min
- Throttle body— 15 min
Install:
- Tensioner, idler pulley, and fan bracket— 1 hr
- Water pump— 40 min
- Thermostat remove and replace— 15 min
- Water return and no. 2 by-pass— 45 min
- Throttle body— 20 min
- Clean pulleys (radiator fluid) and v-belt install— 20 min
- Radiator, hoses, fan, and shroud— 2.75 hrs (probably a good hour spent just on 3 hard to access bolts). Used just under 2 gal of fluid to refill
Total labor was around 12 hours. Lexus bid me $3800 to do all of this and I did it for under $1300, which included a new Milwaukee impact wrench! Amazing how agreeable the wife is to this kind of purchase when you quote the Lexus bill first!
Immediately after the repairs I took it in for a transmission fluid flush and fill. (You'll loose some removing the radiator and 120k is the replacement interval)
And in a final bit of great news, Lexus HQ agreed to reimburse me $650, which halved the cost of the entire project and more than covered my parts costs for the radiator!
JBWeld temp patch
All new and ready for another 120k! (hopefully)
Last edited:
bloc
SILVER Star
Interesting take on this problem. I’m curious how those numbers compare to the model year distribution also polled in this section.
Either way thanks for putting this together. I’ve mentioned I’d like to distill the important parts of this thread into something easier to digest for people new to the issue, but then we wouldn’t have all the data you put together to add context.
Cool summary. Thanks for putting it together. I'm sure this will save folks some time. I've ordered replacement parts for mine last week. I've been escalated with Toyota regarding my 2008 LC with 150k mi. I went full Karen on them when they said they weren't aware of any issues with the radiator on any year model. I'm anxious to hear what they have to say if I ever get a call back.
Just happened to my 2013 LC. 102,000 miles. (2k after my warranty went out...) Initial quote from dealer was $1250 out the door, but negotiated it down to $1000. I've reached out to Toyota corp to see if they want to get involved. I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Replacing radiators is not maintenance item especially at 100k miles. The fact that they all failed at the exact same spot points to a manufacturing defect. I'll let you know what Toyota thinks.
[edit] - Toyota covered the cost of the parts.
) Initial quote from dealer was $1250 out the door, but negotiated it down to $1000. I've reached out to Toyota corp to see if they want to get involved. I agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Replacing radiators is not maintenance item especially at 100k miles. The fact that they all failed at the exact same spot points to a manufacturing defect. I'll let you know what Toyota thinks.
[edit] - Toyota covered the cost of the parts.
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marketShark
Spider 2 Y Banana
As of tonight, I joined the club. Heard some plastic cracking/ popping under the hood when I walked to the house after parking in the driveway. Not a normal sound IMO and took a light out to inspect at 10pm. Didn’t lose a significant amount of fluid
2008 169k original radiator
EDIT: Crack has been visible for months/ thousands of miles. Has been routinely monitored since I noticed it.
2008 169k original radiator
EDIT: Crack has been visible for months/ thousands of miles. Has been routinely monitored since I noticed it.
Last edited:
Exactly 3 months and 3,400 miles after taking this picture. Looks like I'm replacing it in the next week or so. Called a couple toyota dealers, best price locally so far is $430. One has it in stock for $450. The lexus dealer by me wanted $550. Best price I've found shipped online is $320 at BAM wholesale. Sound about right?
nwfl4runner
GOLD Star
Most online dealers will be $320 or thereabouts.
bloc
SILVER Star
Price for the part is $288 at parts.autonationtoyotasouthaustin.com so it would depend on shipping..
Perfect- thanks. I'm in north SA and placed an order for pickup. Hope to knock it out this weekend.
Swapped them out, wasn't particularly hard or time consuming (don't have to remove bumper, just look through grill/lower grill and use lots of extensions). Hour thirty in when I noticed the new radiator was dripping. There's a pinhole crack or something in the notch right by the drain valve exit. Not looking forward to calling them tomorrow, any of y'all have an idea of how this'll play out?
Update: Second radiator is good to go. Trying to contact the guy to get the second one was like pulling teeth; a call to toyota corporate really helped there.
Update: Second radiator is good to go. Trying to contact the guy to get the second one was like pulling teeth; a call to toyota corporate really helped there.
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bloc
SILVER Star
That justifies a face-palm for sure. Also very unexpected.. OEM parts are generally well above stuff like this.
Interesting. I’m dealing with almost exactly the same thing. Just fortunate to have caught it before fully mounting and filling. I slid the new OEM radiator in and hung it on the retaining hooks, then went back to the box to check for new bolts (there aren’t any) and noticed a small piece of broken plastic in the box and a hole in the bottom of the box. The little drain nib was broken off and clearly the radiator had bumped around the box a bit. Dealer ordered a new one that I’ll pick up tomorrow. Hopeful there won’t be drama...
UPDATE: 9/1/20
Picked up the new replacement radiator at Larry H. Miller Toyota in SLC, UT. No drama, straight up exchange. Very pleased with their professionalism!
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My radiator, shipped from California, had a line of fins crushed and one of the trans cooler metal fittings was pressed hard enough to bend it to the point of being creased. They’re supposed to be sending me another one.
I blame UPS, these things happen. But maybe they should pack it better?
I blame UPS, these things happen. But maybe they should pack it better?
Well, this will be the second 200-series radiator replacement for me. First was on my ‘08 at 95k miles. Crack at the typical spot (injection mold weak spot) and pink fluid everywhere. This time it’s my ‘13 at 74k miles. Not leaking yet, but I’ve been watching a crack form for about 6 months and decided to replace before it blew. Picture below (and one of the pooch in the back of the LC on trip to West Texas)
As I recall, I paid about 1400.00 for the first replacement (P&L). This time P&L was $644.47 because there was apparently some antifreeze on the outside of the water pump, allowing that to be replaced for free under my extended warranty. Since that apparently requires radiator removal and replacement, it cut the labor cost. I think the radiator was a little cheaper as well. Anyway, nice to get all that done.
As I recall, I paid about 1400.00 for the first replacement (P&L). This time P&L was $644.47 because there was apparently some antifreeze on the outside of the water pump, allowing that to be replaced for free under my extended warranty. Since that apparently requires radiator removal and replacement, it cut the labor cost. I think the radiator was a little cheaper as well. Anyway, nice to get all that done.
I had two arrive via FedEx "drop-shipping"
in unusable condition because the factory box did not have sufficient padding between the box wall and left/right sides of radiator. Online dealer threw in the towel after second refund and I paid full price at local dealer. BTW, parts counter showed the same price for Lexus or Toyota, but ordering it for a Lexus included expedited delivery. This is one part that is easier to purchase locally, only because Toyota didn't pay sufficient attention to detail in their packaging.
