2005 transmission fluid DIY questions (1 Viewer)

[2005BlackBeauty]

Been researching how to change my transmission fluid in my new to me, 2005 LC.

I’m seeing posts about this vehicle having a sealed system, meaning I can only get about 5.5L out and in. Is there a way to drain it all / would I need a specialized tool?

Seeing AMS as a good option, but would be curious about what others use/recommend.

Any input will be appreciated.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Search "transmission change", limit to titles only, 100 section only. Some good threads.

 

[Kamran Khan]

There is absolutely no way to completely drain any transmission unless you take it out of the car and disassemble it on bench and then drain it.
In automatic transmissions there will always be 3 to 4 quarts or maybe more ATF in torque converter.
Try changing transmission oil twice that will help replace some old fluid in torque converter.

 

[uHu]

There is absolutely no way to completely drain any transmission unless you take it out of the car and disassemble it on bench and then drain it.
In automatic transmissions there will always be 3 to 4 quarts or maybe more ATF in torque converter.

...unless you change the atf through the hose to the atf cooler e.g., and pump out all old fluid while pumping in new.

 

[yackowski]

I used the cooler method on mine when I bought it at 18X miles. Drained 3.5qt cold sitting over night and then used the cooler hose to cycle 3 gallons thru diluted in total. It was pretty nasty looking and had never been done.

I drained the pan again a couple weeks ago. Almost 10k miles later and it honestly looked brand new. I was more less curious. All that being said I wouldn’t be too concerned with changing every last drop.

 

[abuck99]

Been researching how to change my transmission fluid in my new to me, 2005 LC.

I’m seeing posts about this vehicle having a sealed system, meaning I can only get about 5.5L out and in. Is there a way to drain it all / would I need a specialized tool?

Seeing AMS as a good option, but would be curious about what others use/recommend.

Any input will be appreciated.

If your truck has over 150k and no previous history of trans flush, I think it’s safer to do multiple drain and fills over a period of time. Then do a full system flush down the road if you want. ATF is highly detergent- and if the system has accumulated debris ( maybe PO towed the family camper or boat a lot ?) all fresh ATF will scour the circuit and maybe dislodge debris and it winds up in the valve body causing some problems.

Drain and fill yields about 3 Qts maybe a bit more if you elevate front end and let drain overnight. Follow the FSM Procedure for doing the level check (except using the revised Toyota TSB temp parameters of 97F-115F.)

 

[2005BlackBeauty]

If your truck has over 150k and no previous history of trans flush, I think it’s safer to do multiple drain and fills over a period of time. Then do a full system flush down the road if you want. ATF is highly detergent- and if the system has accumulated debris ( maybe PO towed the family camper or boat a lot ?) all fresh ATF will scour the circuit and maybe dislodge debris and it winds up in the valve body causing some problems.

Drain and fill yields about 3 Qts maybe a bit more if you elevate front end and let drain overnight. Follow the FSM Procedure for doing the level check (except using the revised Toyota TSB temp parameters of 97F-115F.)

I’m leaning towards the little by little method. It has 150k on it and the PO brought it in for regular maintenance, but unclear about when it was done last, probably 80k if I had to guess as I see they brought it into the dealership for the 80k service. But it was 12 years ago so time to start cycling in new fluid for sure. I’m wanting to put in quality fluid, synthetic. I found synthetic AMSoil in researching what to get. Any thoughts on what fluid to actually use?

 

[abuck99]

I use Toyota WS- doing a drain and fill about every 2 years. Fwiw It comes out very clean.

I’m sure amsoil is high quality - just make sure it’s rated to Toyota WS standard.

 

[Sykoslug]

I use Toyota WS- doing a drain and fill about every 2 years. Fwiw It comes out very clean.

I’m sure amsoil is high quality - just make sure it’s rated to Toyota WS standard.

How many miles would you say you drive in the 2 years between drain and fill, and in what conditions?

I'm into my first drain the pan and fill interval - I drained 4.5L of 120deg ATF, and refilled with the same amount (Valvoline Maxlife) via dip stick. The truck is an 2003 at 221K. It was drained and flushed at 191K by PO.

My 1st to 2nd shift has been slow when it's cold, like it's holding first longer. Seems like there's a lag from N to D as well.

We'll see if the gradual change method makes it better or worse....

 

[Malleus]

IME, draining the pan and refiling it is a waste of money; ATF isn't cheap. It's like cleaning a swimming pool by draining the top half and refilling it. How clean do you think that'll be, when all the sediment is at the bottom? Most of the ATF is in the transmission case, torque converter and cooler lines ( I got more than two gallons out of mine); none of that comes out when you pull the pan plug (which at best results in a gallon).

Draining the pan, prior to flushing the system using the pump is the way to go. It speeds up the process (a little). Using the pump to move the old ATF out of the system via the front cooler line ensures that when the cooler discharge flow is clean, the whole system is (or as much as can be without opening the case).

I did this on my son's 2000 LX470 two years ago, prior to pulling the transmission for complete overhaul last month. I couldn't believe how much fluid was in that system, after I drained it, until I saw it for myself.

 

[abuck99]

How many miles would you say you drive in the 2 years between drain and fill, and in what conditions?

I'm into my first drain the pan and fill interval - I drained 4.5L of 120deg ATF, and refilled with the same amount (Valvoline Maxlife) via dip stick. The truck is an 2003 at 221K. It was drained and flushed at 191K by PO.

My 1st to 2nd shift has been slow when it's cold, like it's holding first longer. Seems like there's a lag from N to D as well.

We'll see if the gradual change method makes it better or worse....

About 5k mikes a year-

IME, draining the pan and refiling it is a waste of money; ATF isn't cheap. It's like cleaning a swimming pool by draining the top half and refilling it. How clean do you think that'll be, when all the sediment is at the bottom? Most of the ATF is in the transmission case, torque converter and cooler lines ( I got more than two gallons out of mine); none of that comes out when you pull the pan plug (which at best results in a gallon).

Draining the pan, prior to flushing the system using the pump is the way to go. It speeds up the process (a little). Using the pump to move the old ATF out of the system via the front cooler line ensures that when the cooler discharge flow is clean, the whole system is (or as much as can be without opening the case).

I did this on my son's 2000 LX470 two years ago, prior to pulling the transmission for complete overhaul last month. I couldn't believe how much fluid was in that system, after I drained it, until I saw it for myself.

Drain and fill vs flush has different schools of thought. Whatever works for you and your budget.

ATF is highly detergent- and if theres no history of flush on a high mile transmission, a full exchange can dissolve and dislodge sludge- which can get hung up in the valve body passages or valves themselves ( have a look at all the passages nooks and crannys in a valve body). Drain and fill multiple times over a period of time is a safer methodology to slowly introduce clean fluid - more gently cleaning the circuit.

ATF is cheap by comparison to valve body failure or TC failure.

 

[Sykoslug]

@Malleus I see your logic. I have read/researched the pros/cons of doing a full drain & fill vs a partial drain and fill. The wisdom I have heard regarding a partial drain has to do with the clutches in the transmission wearing over time and requiring more friction to engage. That friction actually comes from contaminants in the fluid and by completely removing all the old fluid, you lose that extra friction and may experience slippage. That is from a Toyota mechanic's perspective who has seen and practised both methods. () My vehicle has 221K miles, and AFAIK the transmission was drained and flushed at 190K. That may have been the original fluid, but I have no records to indicate that it had been done before then. With that, I feel less inclined to risk a full drain and fill than a gradual replacement. I'm going to do this again in 7500 miles in step with my oil change for ease of scheduling and see how it goes.

@abuck99 Thanks for the info on your intervals.

 

[Malleus]

@Malleus I see your logic. I have read/researched the pros/cons of doing a full drain & fill vs a partial drain and fill. The wisdom I have heard regarding a partial drain has to do with the clutches in the transmission wearing over time and requiring more friction to engage. That friction actually comes from contaminants in the fluid and by completely removing all the old fluid, you lose that extra friction and may experience slippage. That is from a Toyota mechanic's perspective who has seen and practised both methods. () My vehicle has 221K miles, and AFAIK the transmission was drained and flushed at 190K. That may have been the original fluid, but I have no records to indicate that it had been done before then. With that, I feel less inclined to risk a full drain and fill than a gradual replacement. I'm going to do this again in 7500 miles in step with my oil change for ease of scheduling and see how it goes.

@abuck99 Thanks for the info on your intervals.

I don't claim to be wiser than a Toyota technician, but I've been an engineer for 40+ years. The claim that you shouldn't ever change the fluid in an automatic transmission is voodoo, going back to the days (before I was born) when they were new and few mechanics understood them.

There is no science behind the logic that floating debris between fiction plates will increase friction that is lost due to wear of friction linings. If there was, you could fix a transmission by pouring metal shavings into it. Which, BTW, is exactly what transmission repair in a bottle does. And everyone who's ever used it (and then opened the case) knows what happens when you do that.

As to floating trash clogging valve galleys, etc, that's exactly what's happening due to the wear from friction linings, so removing is a good thing, not a bad one. New ATF will flush the passages, not clog them. I know, I have a transmission open, sitting on my bench right now, and that's exactly what happened after I flushed it.

The very best solution to prolonging the wear surfaces of friction linings is to keep them as clean and free of un-adhered contaminants as possible. This ensures that the most possible friction surface area will be available at all times. Loose material suspended in ATF inside an automatic transmission will only serve to prevent the friction plates and steels from contacting each other, which is exactly why an automatic transmission slips (due to wear; I know, any friction clutch will slip, if the torque exceeds the coefficient of friction of the lining material, but that's not what we're talking about).

 

[elhombre]

The unfortunate part of all these stories is the same. Take a transmission with problems and flush the fluid thinking it will solve those problems generally leads to the transmission failing shortly afterwards. Changing the fluid as preventive maintenance on a good working transmission is never a bad idea. No matter if they are sealed or un-sealed transmissions, heat breaks down the fluid over time regardless if it has a dip stick or not.

Hint while checking fluid level: The temperature range for checking the fluid is 97-115 degrees. I had zero fluid come out of the check tube at 100 degrees. Put the plug back in and waited for the temp to rise up to 112 degrees on Tech Stream while shifting through the gears. Now I had a nice trickle of fluid from the check tube. Lesson I learned that I didn't come across in the endless transmission flush/fill posts was be patient with the temperature. My brain fixated on the lower limit when I should have respected the range and waited for it to get warmer. It's all good now, but I had to take a few swings at it to get it correct.

It made sense after I thought about it over a beer. (This is when all great problems are solved for me) There are over three gallons of fluid in the beast. It takes time for it all to circulate and while some fluid may be at 100 degrees indicated at the transmsion temp sensor for Tech Stream, there is also a decent amount that is still out circulating around that cold piece of metal that has not come up to temp. Waiting for the sensor to see a temp closer to the upper limit means the other fluid in the system has warmed up into the lower range.

 

[Sykoslug]

@Malleus wow, thanks for the in depth explanation. I'm certainly more inclined to keep a fastidious transmission. I'll revisit mine at the next oil change and try the cooler pump method. I have noticed better shifting with the 4.5L that's been changed this far, so that is a relief.

For now, I've got a set of Dobinsons MRR shocks to install B)

 

[Malleus]

@2001LC has a video on the process. It's stupidly easy. It has to be, I did it.

 

[Sykoslug]

@2001LC has a video on the process. It's stupidly easy. It has to be, I did it.

I'll check it out, @2001LC is the man, he's shared so much helpful info here.

 

[J1000]

Install an upgraded valve body at the same time. So worth it. Nomad Stage 1 makes the 5-speed shift like a BMW, it was by far the best bang for buck mod I've done. I used Valvoline Maxlife ATF from what I read it's better in every way than OEM fluids.

 

[2001LC]

To flush all 12qt or not to flush?

I've done more 12qts. flushes, then I can count. I've had only good results without any failures! Highest milage to date, I've done: ~375K miles.

Tips:
Don't mix fluids. If only doing a drain & fill, add back same brand & type as what came out.

Set level, using proper A/T-F temp (use A/T temp #1) for your year. Read temp through tech stream, is best. If using IR gun to red temp. Do so, with IR gun close to pan, ~"3 from bottom of pan. add 2f to 5F deg. depending on OAT and radiate heat.

A/T Fluid I use:
98-02: Mobil 1 MV full synthetic. A/T F, temp 158-176f
2003: Toyota IV. A/T F temp 158-176f
04-07 Toyota WS. A/TF temp 97-115F. (Do not use dash light method ref. in FSM 04-08).

In 2021 Mobil (which is NOT Mobil 1) released Mobil MV full synthetic. Which is approved for Toyota II, III, IV & WS. I've used in 2003-2016.

 

[J1000]

WS is World Standard ie not as good as modern ATFs.