Almost forgot - also had a transmission flush about 15k miles ago. I may drop the pan this weekend and see what I have.
2000 Land Cruiser Transmission Failure
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If you have metal flakes and noise a fluid change isn't going to cure it. It *might* be just the TC, but the symptoms don't sound like it (occurs only in 4th at speed). If it were the TC then not driving at all would be your only hope; circulating metal is only going to damage whatever is left.
I think the lot has been cast my friend.
I think the lot has been cast my friend.
I took it on the interstate and tried in in and out of OD. Confirmed my suspicions. No OD, no hum. My wife couldn't pick it up (she thinks I'm certafiably insane and not a little bit obsessive about my transmission), but I feel it more as a tingling in my foot coming up through the floorboard, and hear it as a low groan. I'm thinking I'll pull the pan and see what I'm dealing with, just not sure when I can get somewhere I can put it up (I'm a big dude - shimmying underneath is not a possibility). It did seem more mellow tonight, but it was still there. I found a place in Sevierville called Chip's Transmissions (Sevierville ~ Knoxville Tennesse Transmission Repair) that specializes in 4x4's. Looks like they got a lot of good reviews, I'm thinking of running it up there this weekend and letting them peek at it.
TN~ let us know what the tranny shop tells you.
and if you drop the pan, please take some pictures of what is in there.
If the fluid is good, magnets are clean, and the vibrations are slight, then *maybe* there is nothing to worry about.
Vibrations at 70 mph could be caused by a number of things, and it does not necessarily mean that the tranny is bad. But in this case, it is certainly better to be safe than sorry.
Again, thanks for looking into this and posting what you find out.
and if you drop the pan, please take some pictures of what is in there.
If the fluid is good, magnets are clean, and the vibrations are slight, then *maybe* there is nothing to worry about.
Vibrations at 70 mph could be caused by a number of things, and it does not necessarily mean that the tranny is bad. But in this case, it is certainly better to be safe than sorry.
Again, thanks for looking into this and posting what you find out.
Wait a minute... either there's metal on the stick or there's not!
A healthy trans won't be making chips.Are you sure you're not (as you say) a little OCD and feel this? Admittedly, I share the OCD sickness.
I tend to agree that a pan drop is probably a good idea. It's not a tough job, just a little time consuming. If your fluid was just changed 15K ago, just get 4 quarts of fluid to replace what you get out of the pan and you'll be GTG.
You need to see if you've got any crud building up on the magnets. That will tell you alot.
You need to see if you've got any crud building up on the magnets. That will tell you alot.
Oregon, there is metal on the stick. Some of the Toyotanation forums have posted the idea a little metal is no cause for alarm, an idea I have certainly never heard. I was always told metal on stick is Bad News, and I assume it is. As for the resonance I've felt that before, but that goes away as you accelerate past that point. The marked difference here is it worsens the more you accelerate. Also as I mentioned if I drive with OD off, the vibration own't there, even at the same speeds. I do agree hypertrannychondia is a possibility. I've pondered taking it to the local dealer and having them drive it and drop the pan. Since apts is dealers won't rebuild though, I almost hate to waste time and money paying someone to look at of that I know I won't pay to fix it.
You could always drain a sample and send it to Blackstone for analysis.
Frankly, I'm amazed that the thing is still running if you actually see metal flakes on the stick. Are you sure it's not just bubbles or maybe the shine from the stick? If you wipe off the stick on a white paper towel can you still see the flakes?
It's one thing to have some shavings in the pan on the magnet but if there's enough to keep in in suspension in the fluid... that's a lot! That much particulate will rapidly abrade bearings, clutches, pump, etc.
Even if you don't want to pull the pan, just draining the pan should carry a bunch of this stuff out so you can look at it. Strain it into another container through a towel and you'll be able to see it.
Frankly, I'm amazed that the thing is still running if you actually see metal flakes on the stick. Are you sure it's not just bubbles or maybe the shine from the stick? If you wipe off the stick on a white paper towel can you still see the flakes?
It's one thing to have some shavings in the pan on the magnet but if there's enough to keep in in suspension in the fluid... that's a lot! That much particulate will rapidly abrade bearings, clutches, pump, etc.
Even if you don't want to pull the pan, just draining the pan should carry a bunch of this stuff out so you can look at it. Strain it into another container through a towel and you'll be able to see it.
take pics
Didn't get a chance to drop the pan, but here is a transmission stick scrape.Note the bits o' metal.
Here's one from a fresh change as a comparison. Definitely something on your stick. How sure are you that it's not coming from dirt at the mouth of the tube? There's also a seam midway down where dirt could get in if the pan had been replaced incorrectly at one point.
That's a lot of fluid by the way. How'd you get so much out on the stick?
That's a lot of fluid by the way. How'd you get so much out on the stick?
When I wiped it on paper towels it looked much the same as yours as far a quantity - but the paper towels we use have some black flecks in them as a byproduct of the recycling process and I thought I might be getting some false positives, so I wiped the next dip on some printer paper. Now that it's dry the flecks are shiny, not black. I can spot 7 - 2 like a grain of sand and 5 that are only visible as shiny dots if you turn the paper back and forth under a light. I forgot to get a transmission pan gasket this morning, so if I want to drop the pan tomorrow I will have to get one at Advance - and the only one they have in stock is part of a filter kit. IF I buy this, any thoughts on the filter? Or should I just use the gasket and go on? I drove it around today for a few errands - it drives like normal, but there is still that mild vibration/groan in OD around 65-75. I found it rises the harder I press the pedal, even if my tach and speedometer don't really move as a result. Just introducing more fuel to the engine feeds the roar, which made me wonder if it could be some sort of engine related noise. I'm hoping to drop the pan tomorrow, which will tell the tale, but I guess another question is, was I right to assume ANY metal in the transmission fluid is bad news? Or in an aging (120k) transmission is a little bit of metal normal?
I know others have used one, but according to Beno there is no OEM pan gasket. OEM is FIPG (RTV). It's more of a pain, but mine sealed up with no problem.
AFAIK any metal flakes/chunks are bad. Normal would be a think film of metal paste on the magnets. Same with the diffs although I'd worry less in those about larger particulate.
Pan R&R procedure is here. I'd plan on 4 qts for a drain, 6 qts for a pan drop, or 16 qts for a flush.
Fyi - I just looked it up and here's the deal:
A343F Transmission has no OEM gasket
A750F Transmission has OEM gasket part number 35168-60010
(I personally used the OEM gasket for my A750F when I dropped my pan and flushed the fluid)
While there aren't a huge amount of flakes there, I'm with Dennis - if there is enough crud in there to remain suspended in the fluid and come out on the dipstick, I'd investigate further right away. You NEED to drop the pan at this point to check for larger shavings on the magnets, or have someone do it for you (prefereably a nearby MUD member who'd be willing to help, that way you can really see whats up and learn how to do it yourself). If I lived nearby I'd be jumping at the chance to try and save another '00 trans. 
Good to know. I was just speaking to the A343F. Seems like the 750 crowd can drive it like they hate it, never check the fluid, and live in harmony for half-million miles.
I assume 2000 is the 343? I think I'm gonna take it to the dealer tomorrow night or Tuesday night. I'm going to tell them I hear a noise in OD and found flakes on the dipstick and that I would like them to pull the pan. I don't think its ever been pulled, I have the service records and its been flushed at 60k and 106k which I assume doesn't entail pulling the pan.
tnlandcruiser said:
2000 is 343, amd if they're flushing, imo, you would want them to drop thr pan. here's why...
some claim flushes can do harm - the connections some have made are:
1) if you flush without dropping the pan you're (possibly) stirring up any bits/shavings/etc and recirculating it which could do damage. therefore coneventional wisdom is yes you do want to drop pan and clean it out prior to flush.
2) using the uber powerful flush machines can bust seals and or damage internals, so some prefer to 'flush' by doing many backtoback drain refills (forget the math but it's been done and comes out to something like 7 times?). others choose the approach of dropping the tranny cooler inlet (aka transmission outlet) line and using the power of the pump itself (spurts out ~3 qts at a time and you refill that amount in bw until the fluid coming out is fresh usually about 16 qts later).
Got an appointment at the dealer for Saturday. FWIW I pulled the stick on my wife's 98 Avalon and got similar results. (Actually hers has more, larger particles - if you rub the paper with your finger you can feel a little grit.) Now that mine has dried, the metal is shiny, not black, and it is considerably less noticeable - you have to kind of turn the paper under the light to see anything. I've seen other forums (not Toyota specific) that argue this is normal as long as there are no actual shavings. Plus, the truck seems to be driving just dandy, and I revisited the growl and I have to admit - it is tied to 2400 RPM in OD. It just COULD be sympathetic vibration. So now I've offically declared myself insane and put it in the hands of Those Who Should Know Better. After 12 months of reading the forum I am apparently too paranoid when it comes to 2000 LC transmissions to be trusted. I'm gonna take it to the dealer, pay my idiot tax, and see what they say. If it flies apart before Saturday, I guess we'll know .
I also saw on another board a tranny rebuild on an F150 runs $1500..... Man, if that was my worst case scenario I'd be at a tranny shop now just for the peace of mind.
. I also saw on another board a tranny rebuild on an F150 runs $1500..... Man, if that was my worst case scenario I'd be at a tranny shop now just for the peace of mind.
