200-series Pinnacle of "Land Cruiser" in the States?

[AnyMal]

I really like the 550 but what a blunder on Toyotas part IMO. They earned an admittedly small, but loyal customer segment who gladly bought a halo vehicle every few years (TLC or LX).

What did they do? Discontinue the TLC and released a frankly pretty weak LX.

Toyota down-sold them to a sequoia or a GX550 instead of an $80-$100k halo car.

I am with this, and not putting all my eggs in the GX basket. Its just hard to believe you get a better LC for less money. Like $30k less… Not complaining on anything about it either other than the over designy bits, and efficiency. I think some folks are losing their minds over it because its so unorthodox, there has never been this much excitement.

Otherwise i do think a MUD GX customers wet dream just came to reality. Although they wont cough up the cash this decade for one…

Soccer moms will still buy it I guess but I think they kind of spoiled that demo with this model. (I think the TX is going to take that segment for sure) Same way they spoiled the LX base with the ultra lux approach. Remember all the billion comments of “LX” is too fancy for me i need the toyota model? Thats been said for years (although kind of dumb IMO). Now you are talking $110/$120k for an LX kitted like mine. So where do those corny old geezer guys go to now?
I fully agree that things are messy and we haven’t even got the 4R yet!

I am happy overall that all my bitching did motivate some product managers at Toyota / Lexus to grow a pair though. Wow ATs on a offroad truck! Who woulda thought!!!

So yeah i am left wondering where i am personally split as the LC customer. Is it going to be getting the GX next (or concurrently) and go full overtrail? Or admit defeat and get another LX in 5-10 years?

IDK, but well see I guess. Ordering a GX now is tempting, but what am I really getting outside of better fuel economy? I think ill do a used model S. Or something actually good and unreliable lol.

 

[desmocruiser]

A ton of great comments here, mostly spot on!

I really like the 200 Series, yes it is a strong departure from a 40/60, but they can be made amazingly capable with some imagination.

I think that is the conundrum Toyota faced with continuation of a 200 series(now 300) in the US as a Land Cruiser. It is a great, arguably one of the best built vehicles ever, but to satisfy the current trend(s) it took far too much effort, time, and money to get it to Trail spec whether you planned to go the trail or just look like you could, especially for the instant gratification generations who are seeing Broncos and Defenders with all manner of lifestyle accessories attached running around that typically start with a more aggressive appearance.

Now with the GX you can walk into a Lexus dealership (likely a Toyota dealer in the future) and order a well equipped Overland appearing and likely capable rig or a nice luxurious trim level that fits well between the 4Runner and LX600 and offers a different appearance and size than the new Sequoia.

Looks like a home run for T from a business standpoint, but to the point of the thread, YES the 200 is the pinnacle of Land Cruiser engineering if the brand stands for Beat Engineered and Built Vehicle made, yes it IS!

 

[TeCKis300]

What trails are you feeling squeezed for size on in your 200?

There are local trails like the Pinyon Mountain Squeeze, where I know I can't go. I wheel with a set of cars from tiny old gen Xterra, a buddies GX460, 100-series LC, myself, and big boy Raptors. The way I see it, on the size spectrum, something closer to the GX, or between the LX and GX is goldilocks. The smaller rigs seem to need less in terms of tire size and mods to tackle obstacles, and take less pinstriping. I'm thinking the rock crawlers types running the Rubicon with a smaller rig like the 80-series would prefer smaller.

I really like the 550 but what a blunder on Toyotas part IMO. They earned an admittedly small, but loyal customer segment who gladly bought a halo vehicle every few years (TLC or LX).

What did they do? Discontinue the TLC and released a frankly pretty weak LX.

Toyota down-sold them to a sequoia or a GX550 instead of an $80-$100k halo car.

I think we've all been wondering this. Maybe mother Yota really knows what they're doing and new LC/LX car buyer types aren't motivated by or using their cars the way we imagine? It's the contrast of the LX Ultra Luxury trim monied buyers to secondary market enthusiasts. Optimizing models for the secondary market wouldn't be good business? I mean, taking a new $90k-$120k level car in todays money, and pressing it directly into Overland/Off-road use is niche. The 200-series LC sales were tiny. But the segment is a growing one? I can see it being perhaps a bit more mainstream with a $75k (or less) vehicle?

Still, I wish Lexus would do the LX600 justice and do an Overtrail type trim for it.

Looking forward to all the aspirational builds hard parking on The Gram, that never go off-road.

 

[sdnative]

There are local trails like the Pinyon Mountain Squeeze, where I know I can't go.

Is that the only one? That's like the 0.01% of the trails available. I wouldn't take my 200, 100 or even my 80 through the squeeze, so not really a 200 issue. And you can do everything between the squeeze and heart attack hill in the 200.

I have taken my 200 pretty much everywhere I have taken my 80 and 100, and find its size perfectly manageable.

If rock crawling is your thing, you are in the wrong platform to begin with I would think.

 

[slipkid13]

Introducing a new vehicle into the market in 2024 that gets only 17mpg combined will run into some headwinds, IMHO. I know a Lexus buyer can afford the gas, but overall, I think Lexus would be wise to get the hybrid powertrain in the GX sooner than later.

Agree, it seems strange to release something like this and it only gets 17MPG. That is barely better than my 10 year LX. And it probably has an inadequate size fuel tank as well

 

[Redbull]

These will do marginally better mpg-wise. Im looking forward to the big torque increase and I know it will swill fuel when I'm accessing all that power.

Few thoughts:

1. These will sell well no doubt, this is exactly what the masses want. Boxy styling, luxury brand, will lease well (eventually).
2. This hits the mark far more than the 300.
3. We will still buy the GX and 300 down the road - how many 100 series owners come on here gushing about their new 200? Just wait 5-10 years. It will be a lot of us.

 

[Heritage 2020]

Greetings All,

In the U.S. market, a subjective “peak”—depends on your generation.

Toyota has to look at the buying preferences of Gen Z, Millennials, and future buyers to fuel sales growth—as Gen X and Boomers are on the downslope.

I’m Gen X, thus, the 200 Series is “peak” due to the 3UR-FE naturally aspirated V8.

To my Gen Z kids, “peak” hasn’t occurred yet—perhaps some hybrid, electric, self-driver, etc.

NOTE: Toyota, I may need a high end Land Cruiser 4wd scooter chair down the road, lol.

 

[TeCKis300]

Is that the only one? That's like the 0.01% of the trails available. I wouldn't take my 200, 100 or even my 80 through the squeeze, so not really a 200 issue. And you can do everything between the squeeze and heart attack hill in the 200.

I have taken my 200 pretty much everywhere I have taken my 80 and 100, and find its size perfectly manageable.

If rock crawling is your thing, you are in the wrong platform to begin with I would think.

Talking for myself, I love the size of the 200-series and wouldn't want smaller. I agree, it's not limiting for the way I use it. Coming into this thread, I thought the GX550 might be closer to the current GX than 300-series. Toyota seems to be hitting every possible size with their extensive SUV lineup. I agree with you that it's right for its intended focus.

Agree, it seems strange to release something like this and it only gets 17MPG. That is barely better than my 10 year LX. And it probably has an inadequate size fuel tank as well

Interestingly, my buddy just got his Rivian R1S fitted with the factory AT tire option. It immediately looses ~30% of its range compared to the street tire. I don't think gas cars are affected as greatly, but it's still significant at maybe 20%.

Trying to say that the 17MPG combined rating on ATs is actually a substantial improvement when you consider the 200-series rates 14MPG combined on a highway tire.

Apples to apples, GX550 to 200-series respectively might look more like
- both fitted with AT tires 17MPG to 13MPG (est)
- both fitted with HT tires 19MPG (est) to 14MPG

 

[sdnative]

Talking for myself, I love the size of the 200-series and wouldn't want smaller. I agree, it's not limiting for the way I use it. Coming into this thread, I thought the GX550 might be closer to the current GX than 300-series. Toyota seems to be hitting every possible size with their extensive SUV lineup. I agree with you that it's right for its intended focus.

Funny, when I first got my 100 it felt so much bigger than the 80. I always felt the 80 "wheeled" small if that makes sense (felt smaller on the trail than it actually was). Then after building the 100 a little and driving that for a time it too felt smaller. The 200 felt way bigger than the 100 when I first got it, and felt clumsy and awkward on the trail, but I am getting used to it and can take it on most all trails I did with the others. Still feels bigger but I am getting used to it.

I do like the 200, but I think the 70 or 80 may be the pinnacle of LCs worldwide. In the states, I would almost say the 80 would be because it's closer to its roots.

 

[slipkid13]

These will do marginally better mpg-wise. Im looking forward to the big torque increase and I know it will swill fuel when I'm accessing all that power.

Few thoughts:

1. These will sell well no doubt, this is exactly what the masses want. Boxy styling, luxury brand, will lease well (eventually).
2. This hits the mark far more than the 300.
3. We will still buy the GX and 300 down the road - how many 100 series owners come on here gushing about their new 200? Just wait 5-10 years. It will be a lot of us.

I wonder if they will actually be able to build any. Seems you can get any Toyaoat?Lexus vehicles (with a few exceptions) without a 6-12 month and insane markup. Hell, the wait for a new Sienna is 12-36 months...

 

[Artie]

To my Gen Z kids, “peak” hasn’t occurred yet—perhaps some hybrid, electric, self-driver, etc.

NOTE: Toyota, I may need a high end Land Cruiser 4wd scooter chair down the road, lol.

I often think about self driving cars and off roading and how this will look. Will we go to no steering wheel in the future? Will this be the time we become part of the matrix and never leave our pod and just wear VR goggles and have some surrogate running around while we live in 15 minute cities eating bugs or whatever?

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Good point. Put together some key dimensions and the GX550 has grown a lot, tracking much closer to the 200-series size.

EDIT: adding LX570 specs, adding towing

	GX460	GX550	LC200 / LX570	LX600
Overall Length	4,880mm (192.1")	4,950mm (194.9")	4,950mm (194.9") / 5,080mm (200")	5,095mm (200.6")
Overall Width (w/o mirrors)	1,885mm (74.2")	1,980mm (77.9")	1,970mm (77.9") / 1,981mm (78")	1,991mm (78.4")
Overall Height	1,875mm (73.8")	1,920mm (75.6") 1,935mm (76.2") Overtrail	1,905mm (75") / 1,910mm (75.2")	1,885mm (74.2")
Approach / Breakover / Departure	21°/21°/23°	26°/23°/23° 26°/24°/22° Overtrail	30°/20°/21° LC 32°/24°/21° Heritage / 25°/20°/23° LX AHC N 27°/23°/27° LX AHC H	25°/20°/23° 27.4°/28°/26.3° (AHC H)
Wheelbase	2,789 (109.8")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")
Track Width Front	1,585mm (62.4")	1,667mm (65.6") 1,687mm (66.4") Overtrail	1,648mm (64.9")	1,646mm (64.8")
Track Width Rear	1,585mm (62.4")	1,668mm (65.7") 1,688mm (66.5") Overtrail	1,643mm (64.7")	1,641mm (64.6")
Tires	265/60R18 (30.5")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/70R18 Overtrail (32.6")	285/60R18 (31.5") 285/50R20 (31.2")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/65R18 (31.5")
Curb Weight	5,130 lbs	??	5,953 lbs / 6,208 lbs	5,665 lbs
Towing	6,500 lbs	8,000 lbs	8,100 lbs / 7,000 lbs	8,000 lbs
GVWR	6,600 lbs	??	7,385 lbs / 7,385 lbs	7,230 lbs

I am leaning towards that it is an LC300 GX trim in disguise with all the shots shared above of the chasis and the body dimensions/wheelbase below.

View attachment 3346555
Sources:

Used 2022 Lexus LX 600 Specs & Features | Edmunds

Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 Lexus LX 600 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.

www.edmunds.com

https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/lc300/files/20221219_lc300_spec-sheet.pdf

Price & Power: The Redesigned Lexus GX Is A Different Beast

The new Lexus GX 550 price remains under six figures, and despite losing the V8, it produces more power than ever—release date: early 2024.

tractionlife.com

@TeCKis300 and @Ali M, thank you both for the data tables. I've been data digging for dimensions as well, trying to confirm the GX550 width, and found a discrepancy in the Lexus specs regarding the actual width of the GX550. It turns out you are both right as you are citing the two different specs Lexus has released to the wild. Here is a summary of what I found, so hopefully we can get Lexus to confirm the actual correct width.

What you can see in the photos below is the mirrors sit within the footprint of the fender flares. So the wider dimension, 83.22" would actually be for the width at the fender flares, the widest point. Of course many vehicle specs cite "with" or "without mirrors", but in this case the mirrors do not affect the width.

@TeCKis300 - Lexus GX550 Width: 77.9"
Matches World Press Release: Overall Width 1,980 mm (= 77.9")
Press_Release_en.pdf - World Premiere of the All-New Lexus GX | Lexus | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/lexus/39264002.html

@Ali M - Lexus GX550 Width: 83.22"
Matches US Press Release: Overall width (+ mirrors) 83.22"
2024_Lexus_GX_Press_Release.pdf - https://www.lexus.com/content/dam/lexus/documents/fcv/2024_Lexus_GX_Press_Release.pdf

 

[daneo]

Is that the only one? That's like the 0.01% of the trails available. I wouldn't take my 200, 100 or even my 80 through the squeeze, so not really a 200 issue.

High Water Mark in AR has some sections were a shelf road by a creek has been eroding away and one has to squeeze between trees. It was a squeeze in a 4Runner and would have been an absolute struggle or turn-around in a 200 or 4-inch wider GX. Agree it’s a small percentage of trails, but they’re out there. The Ozarks is probably on the far end of the spectrum for tight trails. Don’t recall nearly as many paint-trading trails anywhere in CO, UT, NV, CA.

 

[daneo]

Pouring gasoline on the “300 with a GX nameplate” fire here: the 300, LX and GX all have the same second and third row seat mechanicals (upholstery changes by model). Take from that what you will

 

[40Man]

Looks like the GX is getting the same or similar TTV6 as the 300 but appears to be detuned.

I'd be interested in comparing axle diameter, sheet metal thickness, etc. to really see a full picture.

The KDSS on the old GX/4Runner always seemed like it was a thrown on and not fully designed for the application like it was for the 200. That won't be the case here.

I hope any LC version gets the same engine, center lock and rear locker (front too would be nice like the Japan LC offering) and the new 4R gets the TTI4 from the Tacoma.

 

[TeCKis300]

Land Cruiser, is that you?

 

[daneo]

Gimme the GX brick with 70-series-style retro headlights and grill.

 

[Blackford Oakes]

This is interesting. Do they want to fool low-information buyers (likely 90% of the American market) into thinking this is "the pinnacle"?

2024 Toyota LandCruiser Prado to debut later this year – report - https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-toyota-landcruiser-prado-to-debut-later-this-year/

“Unconfirmed reports from company insiders claim the large SUV will drop the Prado name for the North American market – where the LandCruiser 300 Series is not sold – to be sold as the LandCruiser in that region.”

 

[40Man]

This is interesting. Do they want to fool low-information buyers (likely 90% of the American market) into thinking this is "the pinnacle"?

2024 Toyota LandCruiser Prado to debut later this year – report - https://www.drive.com.au/news/2024-toyota-landcruiser-prado-to-debut-later-this-year/

I don't think that would be the intent. If there is only one Land Cruiser in the market, there is no need to add the Prado name.

 

[rlynch356]

I think It will be interesting for sure with the new LC introduction especially if you could get a decontented more rugged level of trim.