1HD-T vs HZJ (turbo?) (1 Viewer)

[ovalooker]

Hey everyone,

I’m stuck in a bit of a decision-making loop and could use some advice from the experts and enthusiasts here. I'm newer to diesel and off roading in general. I’m trying to decide between these three options:

1. A stock 1HD-T-equipped Land Cruiser (HDJ)
2. A high-quality aftermarket turbo setup on a 1HZ (HZJ)
3. A stock 1HZ Land Cruiser (HZJ)

Here’s my situation: I’m looking for a reliable, off-road-capable vehicle that can handle long overlanding trips, occasional towing, and still be easy to maintain and repair if something goes wrong. I’ll likely be in remote areas where simplicity matters, but I’m also not opposed to having a bit of extra power to make highway driving and steep climbs less of a slog.

I’ve done some research but I guess I'd want the car to maintain the highest value. If it will generally be considered more desirable with one of the options, then I'd like to do that:

• 1HD-T: Everyone seems to agree this is a fantastic engine, with great torque and being built for turbocharging from the factory.
• Turbo 1HZ: The 1HZ is a solid workhorse, and a high-quality turbo setup seems like it can give it enough power to rival the 1HD-T. However, I’ve read that turbocharging the 1HZ can put extra stress on the engine but then others say its not a concern if done properly.
• Stock 1HZ: I know it is less powerful, but to the masses, is it generally considered worth it for the reliability?

What would you recommend for someone in my position? If you’ve had experience with a turbo 1HZ, is it worth it, or should I just go for a 1HD-T? Or is stock the way to go?

I’d love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks in advance!

 

[rick_d]

If you live at altitude you will shoot yourself with a non turbo hz.
Turbo hz should be babied more than a hdt.
Hdt- if you want to keep it- should not tow more than 5,000 pounds. Less is better.

If you want to tow a rv trailer, or a offroad rig, or a boat buy a cummins.

 

[ovalooker]

If you live at altitude you will shoot yourself with a non turbo hz.
Turbo hz should be babied more than a hdt.
Hdt- if you want to keep it- should not tow more than 5,000 pounds. Less is better.

If you want to tow a rv trailer, or a offroad rig, or a boat buy a cummins.

For towing more, look at the HD-FT?

 

[mudgudgeon]

• 1HD-T: Everyone seems to agree this is a fantastic engine, with great torque and being built for turbocharging from the factory.

There's some great threads on the potential of these.
They have a couple of issues, BEB, ACSD.
With stock turbo, 3" exhaust, you can tune them up and gain a decent chunk of power. Enough to make them fun to drive.
Add a turbo upgrade and you can add 30-50% torque and power, depending on how much you want to spend.
Torque off idle is lower than a 1HZ until it's under boost. Steep, rocky terrain, they can lack torque.

Turbo 1HZ: The 1HZ is a solid workhorse, and a high-quality turbo setup seems like it can give it enough power to rival the 1HD-T. However, I’ve read that turbocharging the 1HZ can put extra stress on the engine but then others say its not a concern if done properly.

A well done turbo installation & 3" exhaust, and boost compensator for more tuning refinement, you can absolutely wake these up and transform how they drive.
It can also pull the pin on the hand grenade if not done with attention to details.

A turbo 1HZ, all else being equal will never be better than a 1HD-T. They can be transformed, but IDI diesels are just not as efficient as direct injection. This means for the same turbo, same exhaust, same fuel load, same RPM etc etc, 1HD-T will be ahead of the 1HZ.

1HZ has higher compression. This gives it more torque from idle. I'd also means combustion pressures are higher, and more load on rods, crank etc.
1hz has smaller wrist pins in the rods too, so they are less able to handle this.
Later model 1hz have lighter pistons that don't like a turbo.

• Stock 1HZ: I know it is less powerful, but to the masses, is it generally considered worth it for the reliability?

This is the workhorse.
It will run all day.
It will climb a brick wall.
Good thing it'll run all day, as it will take all day to get there.
If you get a 1hz, get a manual. I can't imagine how sluggish one would be with an auto trans.

In terms of reliability and simplicity, they are essentially the same. Turbo makes them slightly more complex.
Keep up the fresh oil and maintenance, turbo is good for 100's k miles.

If you're looking for more power from either 1HD-T or turbo 1HZ, EGT and boost gauge and understanding what they mean is essential. Drive accordingly.

 

[TreadingLight]

Are you planning to swap the engine on a particular model? Not all engine options are available stock on every model 70 series.

1HZ is a great engine until you get to high elevation. It's not terrible but you definitely have to be patient and spend some time in the truck lane. This can be sorted out with a mild turbo.

I don't think i'd do much towing at US highway speeds in a 1hz.

If I wanted to spend a boatload of money so that I could tow, I'd swap a 1HD-FTE into whatever cruiser I had.

 

[Cruisers and Co]

@MountNGoat please give your experience with both since you are one of the only people to have done both of these options and in the same truck

 

[efjayatee]

If I had the $$-A, B abd C!

 

[Squash]

Good points above
HZ = pure simplicity, but lacks the omph when you need to maintain momentum in mud or snow. Having to gear down often leads to an ahh s***e moment.
Hd-t like the above is fairly simple and has the power to keep you going.
Hd-ft pretty sweet, but not as simple if you need to muck around in the engine bay.

I have all the above engines, and though I love my 5speeds, the automatic in the hdj81 really shines when you need to keep moving and not risk slowing down/stopping to downshift in a must do situation.
That said a manual transmission gives me comfort when you are far from help and alone, because you can always pop the clutch and fire up.
I know some of you will shake your heads because I've even removed my A/C to allow better access to my engine bay. Mind you we do have winters.

 

[rick_d]

One final thought. The HDT is a 30 year old engine and tearing it up can be costly to replace. FT was limited production. FTE is cream but if you want Ian/SNLC level you need deep pockets. As always, a US delivered engine would be a better use unless you want diesel bragging rights. A UZ gas is easy to find. You say "easy to maintain", so is there a budget? If there is a budget then you must shoot for low end (not FTE for you). You are searching for something that "maintain the highest value". Are you a speculator or land cruiser enthusiast?

In 1995 I bought my first of too many land cruisers after years of 4runner ownership (and my dad torpedoing my 1981 purchase of a FJ40). In 1997 I thought I could self build a great truck based on a 45 wagon. I settled on and HDT after finding and befriending Jeff "icky" Bryant. Jeff lived in Susanville, California, miles from nowhere and pre internet contact only with Marv Specter and Amauri Nunes. In basic isolation and HELOC loan took a 1986 FJ60 and transplanted a 1HDT in 1996 and two mythical photos showed up in print in Toyota Trails. That truck is still running today with 350,000 miles of transplant. Jeff babies that engine and does ALL MAINTENANCE himself.

Back to my HDT story. Tough times post 9/11 forced me to sell the first HDT before truck was on road (from Amauri in 1998 - to Phil @ Cabe Toyota). Second came along in 2006 and truck ran to 2015 until it broke a ring (from Stedman to burial ground). Third came from John/Radd in 2014 but did not run until 2021 as the project stalled due to....life. I have owned two other engine, one from Jamacans that came dead on arrival and another from Yan/Akella that now lives in Galen/Bottombrackets truck. Others with far deeper pockets can buy into a ready made truck. I just plan on running my pickup as a truck for hopefully the next decade. I haul loads, don't baby the body, but do all work myself and have it set to cruise at 85+ mph highway, run at 9,000 feet, Start at 5F and 110F, and tow a 1,600# load of metal siding 370 miles, and run 1,400 miles back and forth to Grand Junction without a hitch. I also have Icky and 67azcruiser in town (and Onur an hour out) with HDT spares at ready if I die on road.

What do you really want?

 

[jayp2]

If you live at altitude you will shoot yourself with a non turbo hz.
Turbo hz should be babied more than a hdt.
Hdt- if you want to keep it- should not tow more than 5,000 pounds. Less is better.

If you want to tow a rv trailer, or a offroad rig, or a boat buy a cummins.

Personallly I wouldnt use either to tow anything over over 1k but thats just me.....these motors dont put out a lot of power

Longevity in part depends on configuration/set up....and your right foot

If you limit boost to 7-8 # you shouldnt have any issues with a 1HZ

Thats the configuration we decided on for my 1HZ....still in build process

I chose the 1HZ in part because I already have one in my HZJ77

I dont know if the HDT is still in production but the 1HZ is.....and has been for over 30 years

Parts are readily avail and will be for decades to come

 

[mudgudgeon]

The HDT is a 30 year old engine and tearing it up can be costly to replace

Rebuilding any of the HD/HZ Toyota diesels is not a cheap exercise. They are all essentially the same, cost to rebuild is not going to vary a lot from one to the other.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Diesel landcruisers, Nissan Patrol, Landrover Defender where the tow vehicle of choice in australia for anyone who owned/towed horse floats, boat, caravan etc.
Big 2500lb pick up trucks arent really a thing in Aus.
1HD-T or 1hz are well tested with towing sh¡t all over the continent.

Personally , i don't think low boost is a good idea on a 1HZzzzzz.
Boosting a 1hz for more power is risky. Burn more fuel, you increase EGTs and combustion heat in the head. 1hz are prone to cracking heads.
Boost helps reduce EGTs. More boost gives you more head room to run more fuel for more power, but also keep EGTs in check.
A suitably matched Turbo that gives you 15ish pounds of boost efficiently is a far better proposition than the old school approach of a small turbo limited to 5-7 pounds of boost.

There's been guys in Australia running turbo charged 1hz in offroad racing trucks boosting then to 30-50lbs of boost. They'll take boost. It's heat that kills them

 

[efjayatee]

Diesel landcruisers, Nissan Patrol, Landrover Defender where the tow vehicle of choice in australia for anyone who owned/towed horse floats, boat, caravan etc.
Big 2500lb pick up trucks arent really a thing in Aus.
1HD-T or 1hz are well tested with towing sh¡t all over the continent.

Personally , i don't think low boost is a good idea on a 1HZzzzzz.
Boosting a 1hz for more power is risky. Burn more fuel, you increase EGTs and combustion heat in the head. 1hz are prone to cracking heads.
Boost helps reduce EGTs. More boost gives you more head room to run more fuel for more power, but also keep EGTs in check.
A suitably matched Turbo that gives you 15ish pounds of boost efficiently is a far better proposition than the old school approach of a small turbo limited to 5-7 pounds of boost.

There's been guys in Australia running turbo charged 1hz in offroad racing trucks boosting then to 30-50lbs of boost. They'll take boost. It's heat that kills them

☝...

 

[rick_d]

Well aussies can buy a hdt etc any day of the week they can more easily get hdftes and also get the V8 the same day. They also have engine australia at finger tips.

In the US, the hz is a US part. The hdt head is US. Piston, rods, etc on hdt are becoming old and factory parts may soon go away. Machine shop costs are also more here.

Boats, 30 foot caravans, and 20 foot horse trailers are not common on Australia highways. I don’t know if they have the super offroad (hammers!) style rigs that americans drag 700 miles a weekend to rick crawl.

If you blow your hdt up in Kansas you are towing your truck 1,000 miles home.

 

[ovalooker]

You say "easy to maintain", so is there a budget? If there is a budget then you must shoot for low end (not FTE for you). You are searching for something that "maintain the highest value". Are you a speculator or land cruiser enthusiast?

[...]

What do you really want?

Thank you to all for the advice, its been really informative. Taking a quick step back here, my parents moved to Africa earlier this year and I went to visit them over the holidays last month. While I was there, I was absolutely surrounded by troopys everywhere. What really surprised me was there wasn't a lick of rust on any of them anywhere, I guess the city my parents are in must have good climate to preserve the cars.

Here's a 99 HZJ77 with 110K miles I'm looking at right now for only 13K. I'm looking at another 95 HZJ75 with similar miles and condition for a bit less (not sure if 75 vs 78 is considered more desirable). I actually have a local mechanic that goes to church with my parents going around and kicking the tires on a bunch of them and my plan is to get them comprehensively evaluated, maybe even a bit of work done on them down there, and then ship it up here (which will probably run me 4-5K on the high side).

I'm in the PNW right now and have loved THE IDEA of a landcruiser forever. Now I've been in a place careerwise where I could have invested into something like this for a while but the allure of getting a great deal is starting to get me off the sidelines.

I'm not really sure yet if I'm a collector or enthusiast (I do like to collect desirable items) as I haven't really gotten a chance to get all the way into it, but I don't want to make obvious mistakes and I want something practical. I've been learning a lot but I'm sure there are about a hundred blind spots I haven't discovered yet. Very grateful I've found this community, please continue to guide me and give me a few spoonfuls of sobering reality as necessary.

 

[mudgudgeon]

You're looking at bringing one to USA?

Read this Thread 'Information Re: Importing to the USA and Complete DIY How-To' Information Re: Importing to the USA and Complete DIY How-To - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/information-re-importing-to-the-usa-and-complete-diy-how-to.1242055/

 

[TreadingLight]

One bit of sobering reality .... A used truck from Africa priced cheap is going to be somewhere on the spectrum of very heavily used to completely clapped out.

This won't be a collectible. It will be the start of a $60k project to make it reliable enough to run without the consistent attention of a mechanic.

If that sounds fun, go for it! Many of us do.

But don't let anyone convince you that you can have someone go over it, ship it here, and start driving it around on trouble-free adventures in the cascades.

 

[Gun Runner 5]

Wouldn’t want a 1HZ-T without an Intercooler.

 

[Guyute]

Where are you located in Washington? I'm in Portland and have a "properly" turbo'd HZJ77 and a N/A HZJ73. Welcome to meet up and test drive.

 

[MountNGoat]

@MountNGoat please give your experience with both since you are one of the only people to have done both of these options and in the same truck

As @Cruisers and Co says, I've had both engines in my FJ60. When first converted I went with a 1HZ-T. No intercooler, boost was max at 10 psi. I spent many years and $$$ trying to make that engine run cool, and it just wouldn't. I explored every aspect of timing and tuning (yes, it was boost compensated). I even added data-logging digital gages for EGT's, boost, water temp, and AFR's so I KNEW what was going on (yeah, I'm an engineer) and track the results to any changes in tune. Summertime driving on flat highways at 65-70 mph near sea level, boost around 7 psi, and my water temps would get up there. Add any kind of gradient to that and they would spiral out of control. The only way to deal with that was to go to third gear and reduce speed to keep boost under 4 psi. I eventually added a top mount WTAIC hoping that would solve the problem, and it did not. Zero difference. I was always fighting EGT's as well, no matter how it was tuned - my right foot would often be tethered to the EGT gage. Whenever I drove it I felt like I was piloting a plane - I could never take my eyes off the gages, day or night. And I drove all over the Western U.S., from California to Colorado and from Montana to Arizona. The only time I could "use" the full capacity of the engine was in the dead of winter. Also, I'm never towing anything. I'm just a "heavy" 60 series, built for either the Rubicon or long road trips.

I finally gave up and got a 1HD-T that @OGBeno recommended and helped me source. I ditched the TMWAIC and ran it. What a difference. No more overheating (same radiator). EGT's were now not running wildly away from me anytime I was on a grade and under boost. I still had to watch them, however, just nothing like before. Water temp was "meh" all the time, fully back to normal. I decided to up the boost to 14 psi and see how it did (and added more fuel). More power and a little more aggressive at getting the EGT's up there, but still no overheating, even on steep grades in the summer time (95F) under high boost (had to back off some for EGT's) and full aircon (water temps max at 205F). At this time I'd moved to northwest Nevada, so the truck was now running at elevation, something that always had further exacerbated the problems with the 1HZ-T. I drove the truck out to Colorado for some spa treatment with @Cruisers and Co and Johnny designed and fabbed up a large FMIC. On the drive back to Nevada I noticed that my EGT's no longer needed to be watched as they never eclipsed 1100F (pre-turbo), now matter how hard I pushed up the grades, and I had more power. When I got home I went through a careful tuning, pushed boost up to around 18 psi (I switched turbos to a Munro full billet high flow), and added more fuel accordingly. Still no overheating issues AT ALL (same as before, summer day at 95F, pulling the grade up to Lake Tahoe at full boost this time, aircon on full blast, water temps <205F!) and still no EGT issues. After lots of research and lots of discussions I think it all comes down to the ability to get heat out of the head in the IDI 1HZ vs the DI 1HD-T. Since this conversion I've made several more laps around the western U.S., in the hot summertime, with the aircon blasting away, and zero issues for water temps or EGT's. Based on these experiences I could never recommend turboing a 1HZ. Get yourself a 1HD-T with a proper tune for your boost, and the biggest FMIC you can fit in the grill, and run it. PFA.