That's insane and ludicrous....
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That's insane and ludicrous....
I have no doubt the 250 will be a great vehicle but it isn't worth $92k to me, but neither is the 300.
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- #43
These people are obscene.
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****DUMBPRICE
Somebody with money to burn will buy it at that price and the dealer will laugh all the way to the bank. “A fool and his money are soon parted.”
Agreed, defeat from the jaws of victory. My son’s Subaru Outback has a larger gas tank. For towing and off road the LC range will be challenging.
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- #47
Let's not forgot that, even with the small tank, LC250 delivers much better range than any past US market Land Cruiser series, but that unfortunately is a very, very low bar.
| Series / Yr | Fuel Capacity | Est. Comb. MPG | Fuel Weight | Total Fuel Weight | Range | Miles/lb Fuel Weight | $/mile ($5/gal) |
| 80 / 92 | 25.10 | 11.00 | 6.10 | 153.11 | 276.10 | 1.80 | $0.45 |
| 100 / 2002 | 25.40 | 13.00 | 6.10 | 154.94 | 330.20 | 2.13 | $0.38 |
| 200 / 2020 | 24.60 | 14.00 | 6.10 | 150.06 | 344.40 | 2.30 | $0.36 |
| 250 / 2024 (TH) | 17.90 | 23.00 | 6.10 | 109.19 | 411.70 | 3.77 | $0.22 |
| 252 / 2024 (V6)(GX) | 21.13 | 17.00 | 6.10 | 128.89 | 359.21 | 2.79 | $0.29 |
Good data and I appreciate their effort with the 250, but the EPA estimates apply to pavement driving and are only marginally relevant to towing and off-road, which are the great equalizers for mpg. It will be interesting to see reports from early buyers on how the power train performs towing and off road.
- Thread starter
- #49
I read somewhere that these hybrid systems contribute more relative torque at lower speeds, in which case there may be some hope for less efficiency degradation on dirt at lower speeds.
But, I don’t know if that’s actually true, and in either case we’ll just have to wait and see.
It is true. Electric motors produce peak torque at 0 rpm. In contrast, a gasoline engine needs to spin up before it reaches peak torque. Mild hybrids work particularly well with start-stop systems, as the electric motor starts the vehicle moving for the second it takes the ICE to start up.
If you look at Toyota's full hybrids (like the Prius), they use Atkinson cycle engines which are more efficient compared to Otto cycle engines, but at the expense of reduced low-end torque. But the electric traction motor fills in the low-end torque, to make up for that deficiency.
The LC250 electric motor contributes 50HP and ~150LBFT of torque (at zero RPM as others noted). In town and on a trail/dirt road it should be very drivable and this is also where it will provide the benefit of efficiency as it can use the electric motor/generator and battery to recapture energy when slowing down.
We have an RX350 hybrid. With the electric motor(s) it has better drivability than you would expect and it actually gets better mileage in town and stop-and-go than on the freeway.
The hybrid is why the range of the city/highway/combined ratings @ 22/25/23 MPG are so close together.
We have an RX350 hybrid. With the electric motor(s) it has better drivability than you would expect and it actually gets better mileage in town and stop-and-go than on the freeway.
The hybrid is why the range of the city/highway/combined ratings @ 22/25/23 MPG are so close together.
This video (5:50) shows the 1958 having a subwoofer. I'm so on the fence between 1958 and LC grade that things like this can sway me, haha. Another improvement over the initial prototypes is a padded SofTex center console.
- Thread starter
- #53
Nice looks at the read diff.
Subwoofer for windows-down reggae basslines on remote southern Colorado Plateau dirt tours — details.
A sub is a very very cheap upgrade later relative to the price difference between the 58 and LC. To me it seems like you either want leather and a big screen or you can live without that and save a boatload of money.
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But I like that it is integrated in the tailgate from the factory. I don’t really want to have an aftermarket sub sitting in the cargo area.
Interesting video. I note that the rear diff has the traditional forged (?) pinion flange like the LC300, not the round flange that is used by the Tacoma and Tundra. It also appears to have the longer pinion vs the very short we see on some Tacomas. It also has the square profile lower axle housing that extends past the lower control arm mount where other rear axles convert to a round tube profile immediately inboard of that lower control arm mount. I don't know enough to know if that means anything about what axle is under there. But visually it looks just like the LC300 axle. IMO - it sure looks like it has the 9.5" rear axle.
Also - no fuel tank skid??? I know I'd throw it away anyway, but dang Toyota - you don't even sell a base model 4Runner without a full fuel tank steel skid. This is weak sauce. If you want to do a builder's version, awesome. But maybe just make it clear up front that it's a builder's version and then skip the half tank skid nonsense.
Another note - those rear lower control arm mounts are no bueno. They'll need to be reinforced before any serious play in the rocks. The current J150 platform fully boxes those in. These are not and it's very thin material with no shear bracing. They're prone to bend/collapse under hard hits. OTOH the shock mounts look really robust. And the frame side rear track bar mount looks really easy to modify with a bracket to correct for a lift. Good job there.
The cloth seats look cool - but it's a hard no from me on them. I have a dog and kids. Cloth just isn't kid/dog friendly. Even if it's really durable fabric.
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TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Do you see how the back of the differential protrudes on the LC300 to accommodate the presumably larger ring gear? That protrusion isn't present on the LC250 (which is roughly hemispherical).
hey don't look the same to me.
LC250 from the video linked above:
LC300 (New LC Differentials - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/new-lc-differentials.1328526/post-15287265)
The 2024 tacoma rear axle uses the same cover plate style as the LC300. Which is different from the LC200. But the Tacoma you can see the axle housing profile change to round inboard of the lower control arm mount. The LC250 looks somewhere between the two.
It is different. There's actually a lot of differences I see between those two. The LC250 has significantly longer shock mounts that presumably allow quite a bit longer travel shocks vs the LC300. It also has the lower control arm mounts quite a bit lower from the axle centerline. There's a few reasons to do that, but it's definitely not the same exact housing. I don't recall seeing a Toyota rear diff cover without the profile of the LC300/Tacoma housing in a long time. They all use the channel to direct flow of the gear oil to help get the fluid flowing over the pinion bearings. Even as far back as the FJ40s had the same diff cover profile.
Maybe the only conclusion is that it appears that Toyota has a bunch of different bespoke axle housings for each model and they're not really as modular as I thought they were supposed to be.
Also - here's another LC300 rear axle where the axle profile tapers from square to round between the LCA mount and shock mount like the lC250:
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I thought the SDM was included on all trims. I see that it's not included on the 1958. Also doesn't come with MTS. Kinda strange places to de-content it IMO.
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That is surprising to see.
The lack of these two things on the 1958 have been known since release. MTS I wonder if it’ll be like the gx where everything is there it’s a matter of adding the switches. I will say I used MTS a handful of times in my 5th gen I owned a few years ago when new but other than that I never really touched it again. Another frustrating aspect is the inability to add SDM to the 1958. Ford did one thing amazing with the Bronco and they was the ability to add Sasquatch to any trim although they got rid of the base.
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