although it has a little lope
I'd love to hear a soundclip of it
( here is mine with Delta 250 cam : YouTube - 2F+ rumble / sound of engine )
Help me plan for a 2FE (1 Viewer)
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I'd love to hear a soundclip of it
( here is mine with Delta 250 cam : YouTube - 2F+ rumble / sound of engine )
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I put about 1100 km on the engine yesterday. Ran fine and strong. Conditions weren't right for getting a good idea of mileage, but it seemed to be on par with what the 3FE used to get is similar cold conditions with winter gas. With the added torque I find it's a bit more challenging to maintain an even cruising speed without cruise control, a little pedal and it creeps up faster than it used to.
The only issue that popped up is an odd loud chatter sound that happened a couple times. It sounded like what I would assume the fan blades hitting the sheet metal shroud due to a broken motor mount would, but it wasn't reproducible based on load, and hasn't popped up driving around in the deep snow on the farm in low range.... The last two times it happened, it seemed to coincide with backing right off the throttle from cruising, then getting back on it lightly in less than a second. From when it happens, I would think it's something stemming from a hiccup in the engine control, but I'm at a loss as to how that would lead to such a sheet metally sound. If it crops up again, I'll have to get a better idea of where it is coming from.
The only issue that popped up is an odd loud chatter sound that happened a couple times. It sounded like what I would assume the fan blades hitting the sheet metal shroud due to a broken motor mount would, but it wasn't reproducible based on load, and hasn't popped up driving around in the deep snow on the farm in low range.... The last two times it happened, it seemed to coincide with backing right off the throttle from cruising, then getting back on it lightly in less than a second. From when it happens, I would think it's something stemming from a hiccup in the engine control, but I'm at a loss as to how that would lead to such a sheet metally sound.
If it crops up again, I'll have to get a better idea of where it is coming from.Yes, this has been a GREAT thread.
I've read CruisinFJ60's thread "2F-E Swap for Fiona" which seems to have stalled; Aaron's (tonkota)article in Toyota Trails "FJ62 Version 2F-E"; the report of Jon Stewart's (pappy) project, "Adapting 3FE induction to a 2F in a 1969 FJ40"; Jim Godwin's "Fuel Injection for an Older Land Cruiser"; CardinalFJ60's thread "2F with 3FE head/injection? Real world stories please"; and related threads ""best" 2F ", "Gertrude - 2F high performance rebuild", "1FZ-FE engine into a FJ60". Have I missed any? I feel like I could do this blindfolded. I stress "feel" because it is evident how much knowledge, skill, patience, and care it takes to acheve these results, none of which I have in geat quantities.
I have a beloved "87 FJ60 and a blown '88 FJ62 whence I steal parts occasionally. Recently, I lent my 60 to a friend whose car was in the shop and it came back with a hole in crankcase where the # 6 rod went through. Hence my extreme interest in these threads. I would like to put a 2FE into the 60 as I'm more fond of that truck. Other than their engines, both the 60 and 62 are in good shape. I also have a spare 2F that is sound but it's a 1977.
1st question: Is the '77 2F of any use whatsoever in this project? Can I use its crankcase, the guts of the 87, and the 88 head? Or do I need to find a newer crankcase donor. I understand it won't have the threaded holes for the alternator/pump brackets but are their other difficulties as well? I've never re-built an engine though I've been a motorhead all my life and I do have a machine shop in my garage. Is it practical for me to re-use the guts of a blown engine in a donor crankcase at all? Or should I be looking for a complete running or rebuildable 2F?
Other questions: I noted tonkota's comment that it is somewhat more difficult to put the 2FE into a 60 rather than a 62. Is this due mainly to wire harness issues and rod vs cable linkage? Or are there other problems I've missed? At first blush, it would seem using the 60 as the receiving vehicle would solve a number of packaging issues such as the exhaust meeting up, the fan shroud centering, overall height vis-a-vis the hood, not to mention the all-important hand starting crank hole lining up, LOL. Of course the fuel tank and lines must come over from the 62 as well. That doesn't seem too hard.
I'm a little concerned about the care involved. I don't think I will have the time to be the primary labor input on this project as I want to get it done quickly. Could this project be reasonably entrusted to a local mechanic? I'd like to see a poll of how many hours it has taken for people to do this conversion.
Which begs the question, who HAS successfully done it? Obviously, RockDoc into a 62; tonkota, also a 62; zebrabeefj40 into a 60; Godwin into a 60; pappy into a 40. As matt.mcinnes points out, "The biggest reason (to do this conversion) is to be cool and join the 2FE Club" So I'd love to know who all is in the club, with which vehicle, and which transmission. Has anyone mated it with an H55 yet? I assume you 62 guys are all still running your autos?
I don't mean to hijack your thread, RockDoc, and I hereby apologize. This seemed a better place to post than starting a new thread.
I've read CruisinFJ60's thread "2F-E Swap for Fiona" which seems to have stalled; Aaron's (tonkota)article in Toyota Trails "FJ62 Version 2F-E"; the report of Jon Stewart's (pappy) project, "Adapting 3FE induction to a 2F in a 1969 FJ40"; Jim Godwin's "Fuel Injection for an Older Land Cruiser"; CardinalFJ60's thread "2F with 3FE head/injection? Real world stories please"; and related threads ""best" 2F ", "Gertrude - 2F high performance rebuild", "1FZ-FE engine into a FJ60". Have I missed any? I feel like I could do this blindfolded. I stress "feel" because it is evident how much knowledge, skill, patience, and care it takes to acheve these results, none of which I have in geat quantities.
I have a beloved "87 FJ60 and a blown '88 FJ62 whence I steal parts occasionally. Recently, I lent my 60 to a friend whose car was in the shop and it came back with a hole in crankcase where the # 6 rod went through. Hence my extreme interest in these threads. I would like to put a 2FE into the 60 as I'm more fond of that truck. Other than their engines, both the 60 and 62 are in good shape. I also have a spare 2F that is sound but it's a 1977.
1st question: Is the '77 2F of any use whatsoever in this project? Can I use its crankcase, the guts of the 87, and the 88 head? Or do I need to find a newer crankcase donor. I understand it won't have the threaded holes for the alternator/pump brackets but are their other difficulties as well? I've never re-built an engine though I've been a motorhead all my life and I do have a machine shop in my garage. Is it practical for me to re-use the guts of a blown engine in a donor crankcase at all? Or should I be looking for a complete running or rebuildable 2F?
Other questions: I noted tonkota's comment that it is somewhat more difficult to put the 2FE into a 60 rather than a 62. Is this due mainly to wire harness issues and rod vs cable linkage? Or are there other problems I've missed? At first blush, it would seem using the 60 as the receiving vehicle would solve a number of packaging issues such as the exhaust meeting up, the fan shroud centering, overall height vis-a-vis the hood, not to mention the all-important hand starting crank hole lining up, LOL. Of course the fuel tank and lines must come over from the 62 as well. That doesn't seem too hard.
I'm a little concerned about the care involved. I don't think I will have the time to be the primary labor input on this project as I want to get it done quickly. Could this project be reasonably entrusted to a local mechanic? I'd like to see a poll of how many hours it has taken for people to do this conversion.
Which begs the question, who HAS successfully done it? Obviously, RockDoc into a 62; tonkota, also a 62; zebrabeefj40 into a 60; Godwin into a 60; pappy into a 40. As matt.mcinnes points out, "The biggest reason (to do this conversion) is to be cool and join the 2FE Club
" So I'd love to know who all is in the club, with which vehicle, and which transmission. Has anyone mated it with an H55 yet? I assume you 62 guys are all still running your autos?I don't mean to hijack your thread, RockDoc, and I hereby apologize. This seemed a better place to post than starting a new thread.
]Which begs the question, who HAS successfully done it? Obviously, RockDoc into a 62; tonkota, also a 62; zebrabeefj40 into a 60; Godwin into a 60; pappy into a 40. As matt.mcinnes points out, "The biggest reason (to do this conversion) is to be cool and join the 2FE Club
Quite a few of us. Tonkota was keeping track.
Yep, my 2FE is mated to an H55F in my FJ40.
- Thread starter
- #265
1st question: Is the '77 2F of any use whatsoever in this project? Can I use its crankcase, the guts of the 87, and the 88 head? Or do I need to find a newer crankcase donor. I understand it won't have the threaded holes for the alternator/pump brackets but are their other difficulties as well?
This thread might help out with that, lots of discussion of changes through the production of the 2F: https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/87140-best-2f.html
I'm certainly no expert, but AFAIK, the threaded holes and the change from domed to flat top pistons are the only biggies. There are some other changes like the nature of the thrust bearings for the crank, and whether the ends of oil galleries are fitted with press-in plugs or threaded inserts...
I've never re-built an engine though I've been a motorhead all my life and I do have a machine shop in my garage. Is it practical for me to re-use the guts of a blown engine in a donor crankcase at all? Or should I be looking for a complete running or rebuildable 2F?
FWIW, my bottom end basically only got a hone and re-ring, but it seemed to be in pretty decent shape when I tore into it.
Other questions: I noted tonkota's comment that it is somewhat more difficult to put the 2FE into a 60 rather than a 62. Is this due mainly to wire harness issues and rod vs cable linkage? Or are there other problems I've missed? At first blush, it would seem using the 60 as the receiving vehicle would solve a number of packaging issues such as the exhaust meeting up, the fan shroud centering, overall height vis-a-vis the hood, not to mention the all-important hand starting crank hole lining up, LOL. Of course the fuel tank and lines must come over from the 62 as well. That doesn't seem too hard.
Sounds like you have it covered well, except the exhaust is going to be custom in the 60 anyway since you are using the dual 3FE manifolds rather than the single 2F.
I'm a little concerned about the care involved. I don't think I will have the time to be the primary labor input on this project as I want to get it done quickly. Could this project be reasonably entrusted to a local mechanic? I'd like to see a poll of how many hours it has taken for people to do this conversion.
It took me a long time, but this was the first time I've done something like this, and I was approaching it more as something to do for entertainment than trying to get it done quickly.
Which begs the question, who HAS successfully done it? Obviously, RockDoc into a 62; tonkota, also a 62; zebrabeefj40 into a 60; Godwin into a 60; pappy into a 40. As matt.mcinnes points out, "The biggest reason (to do this conversion) is to be cool and join the 2FE Club
Mine is still an auto, but with the upgraded valvebody from Wholesale Automatics in Australia, which gives crisper shifts and lock up in 3rd.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, RockDoc, and I hereby apologize. This seemed a better place to post than starting a new thread.
No worries.
.....
There are two differences between installing the 2FE into a FJ60 and a FJ62.
FJ60, easier to keep the accessories in the stock location. Wiring is a bit more challenging, but personally I don't think it's a big deal.
FJ62. Wiring is easier since it's already in place. But, accessories (AC, PS, Alt, smog pump) become more challenging because the 2F has bosses in different locations than the 3FE.
I would rather deal with the wiring than deal with accessories. But that is just me.
FJ60, easier to keep the accessories in the stock location. Wiring is a bit more challenging, but personally I don't think it's a big deal.
FJ62. Wiring is easier since it's already in place. But, accessories (AC, PS, Alt, smog pump) become more challenging because the 2F has bosses in different locations than the 3FE.
I would rather deal with the wiring than deal with accessories. But that is just me.
Thanks papppy & RD for your thoughtful replies.
OK, well I'm just going to get going and pull the trigger on this. I'm going to use my '87 2F guts, hopefully all I'll need is a single new piston and rod (BTW does anyone know the part #s for these? I haven't been able to find that info yet on the net.) and I'll keep my eyes open for a newer 2F block but if I don't find one in time, I'll use the '77 and work around it. Just to be clear, there's no reason why the '87 insides shouldn't go neatly into the '77 crankcase, right? I'll also see if the "best 2F" thread sheds a clue.
I'm almost certain the 60 will be the recipient and the 62 the donor. I agree with pappy, I'd rather deal with the wiring than the packaging. Plus I like the 60 better and plan on keeping it a manual trans, with an eventual (or maybe immediate) upgrade to the 5-speed. I confess I didn't realize that I'd be switching to dual exhaust manifolds though. Does it make sense to use the 62 exhaust components? I think they're in pretty good shape.
Do you think a solid and sober 40 - 60 hours could complete this project (engine swap only)? That is, in the spectacularly detailed manner that you two have done? Remember, I'll have yours' and others' guides to go by, so hopefully research and trial and error time will be cut way down. If yes, I'll do it myself. I just cleared out the work space. If not, maybe I'll have a shop rebuild the short block while I prepare the top end and engine compartment.
As I already have the three engines and the two vehicles, it's seeming like I won't be experiencing a ton of expense for parts, or am I being delusional? I'm prepared for gaskets, seals, bearings, coatings, rings, cam, honing, balancing, etc but is there someting big I'm missing? You fellas re-used your valves, right? Of course, if I do the tranny swap now, I know that'll be a lil costly. I'm set up well with tools but I think an engine stand might be in order??? Btw, about how much will the fully built-up 2FE weigh?
Just in: I found this on ebay, TOYOTA 4.2 LAND CRUISER ENGINE ROD & PISTON ASSY. #6210 - eBay (item 160385714870 end time Dec-03-10 13:35:37 PST) But the listing says it fits only '75 - '80 model years. I dunno, that piston looks pretty flat-topped to me. Looks more like post-'80. Can anyone tell from the pic?
Thanks again
OK, well I'm just going to get going and pull the trigger on this. I'm going to use my '87 2F guts, hopefully all I'll need is a single new piston and rod (BTW does anyone know the part #s for these? I haven't been able to find that info yet on the net.) and I'll keep my eyes open for a newer 2F block but if I don't find one in time, I'll use the '77 and work around it. Just to be clear, there's no reason why the '87 insides shouldn't go neatly into the '77 crankcase, right? I'll also see if the "best 2F" thread sheds a clue.
I'm almost certain the 60 will be the recipient and the 62 the donor. I agree with pappy, I'd rather deal with the wiring than the packaging. Plus I like the 60 better and plan on keeping it a manual trans, with an eventual (or maybe immediate) upgrade to the 5-speed. I confess I didn't realize that I'd be switching to dual exhaust manifolds though. Does it make sense to use the 62 exhaust components? I think they're in pretty good shape.
Do you think a solid and sober 40 - 60 hours could complete this project (engine swap only)? That is, in the spectacularly detailed manner that you two have done? Remember, I'll have yours' and others' guides to go by, so hopefully research and trial and error time will be cut way down. If yes, I'll do it myself. I just cleared out the work space. If not, maybe I'll have a shop rebuild the short block while I prepare the top end and engine compartment.
As I already have the three engines and the two vehicles, it's seeming like I won't be experiencing a ton of expense for parts, or am I being delusional? I'm prepared for gaskets, seals, bearings, coatings, rings, cam, honing, balancing, etc but is there someting big I'm missing? You fellas re-used your valves, right? Of course, if I do the tranny swap now, I know that'll be a lil costly. I'm set up well with tools but I think an engine stand might be in order??? Btw, about how much will the fully built-up 2FE weigh?
Just in: I found this on ebay, TOYOTA 4.2 LAND CRUISER ENGINE ROD & PISTON ASSY. #6210 - eBay (item 160385714870 end time Dec-03-10 13:35:37 PST) But the listing says it fits only '75 - '80 model years. I dunno, that piston looks pretty flat-topped to me. Looks more like post-'80. Can anyone tell from the pic?
Thanks again
With the 3FE head you have no choice but to use the matching manifold. Any muffler shop will be able to get you routed from the dual manifold into a single exhaust. Just try and get the flanges, or better yet, the flanges with a short piece of pipe. You will also need to install Ox sensor fittings on each pipe.
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Random thoughts for Brandon:
Do yourself a big favor and get a 79-87 2F block that has the PS bolt holes. Even if OEM PS is not installed, at least there will be plenty of potential mounting points for accessories.
The 77 crank will go right into any F/2F block. The 77 rods will work, but IIRC they are not the strong rods that have the stamped/forged I-beam.
Whatever block is used, just bore it over to clean it up & get the extra CC's, then use new 81-87 flattop piston to go with the 3FE head.
Do yourself a big favor and get a 79-87 2F block that has the PS bolt holes. Even if OEM PS is not installed, at least there will be plenty of potential mounting points for accessories.
The 77 crank will go right into any F/2F block. The 77 rods will work, but IIRC they are not the strong rods that have the stamped/forged I-beam.
Whatever block is used, just bore it over to clean it up & get the extra CC's, then use new 81-87 flattop piston to go with the 3FE head.
Thanks Jim,
I Figured I would use ALL the guts from the '87 including the rods (minus the one I will need to buy) but I think you are right about getting a more recent block because this needs to get smogged in california so I will need to retain the air pump, plus I want to keep my A/C as well so I will need ALL the mounting points (it does have PS). Bit can I drill and tap those holes in an older block myself? Is the material there? I do have that capability in my shop.
I Figured I would use ALL the guts from the '87 including the rods (minus the one I will need to buy) but I think you are right about getting a more recent block because this needs to get smogged in california so I will need to retain the air pump, plus I want to keep my A/C as well so I will need ALL the mounting points (it does have PS). Bit can I drill and tap those holes in an older block myself? Is the material there? I do have that capability in my shop.
Thanks pappy as well. The wiring harness has plugs for TWO O2 sensors, I take it.
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- #272
Just got back to Manitoba after pulling a tandom axle U-Haul with most of a buddy's apartment in the back. Ran nice and stong and kept up with highway traffic for pretty much the whole stretch, until the last fill up. Then it started to ping like crazy beyond about half throttle so I had to slow right down. Thankfully topping off the tank with premium an hour later cured it. When I was building the 2FE I hoped it would come out just shy of needing to run mid-grade, looks like it came in just about right. I'll just have to keep a bottle of octane booster in the truck for the next crap tank.
Yes. One lead runs across on top of the transmission, and the other drops down to the framerail from the DS firewall or fender.
Yes. One lead runs across on top of the transmission, and the other drops down to the framerail from the DS firewall or fender.
Thanks.
As you can see, I pull a trailer. I've done it between Mich and Cali (2500 miles) four times now and I've NEVER kept up with traffic, LOL. And yours was alot heavier sounds like so thats good testimony to the newfound power. I hate that sinking feeling though when those engine noises begin in the middle of a long trip, especially when pulling, Glad yours worked out. Are all the 2FEs out there running higher octane?
As you can see, I pull a trailer. I've done it between Mich and Cali (2500 miles) four times now and I've NEVER kept up with traffic, LOL. And yours was alot heavier sounds like so thats good testimony to the newfound power. I hate that sinking feeling though when those engine noises begin in the middle of a long trip, especially when pulling, Glad yours worked out. Are all the 2FEs out there running higher octane?
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No, higher octane is not a requirement for the EFI.
It may be needed w/ increased displacement and/or a milled cylinder head.
It may be needed w/ increased displacement and/or a milled cylinder head.
I have lost track. The good ones have it written down what they did though.
The only issue that popped up is an odd loud chatter sound that happened a couple times. It sounded like what I would assume the fan blades hitting the sheet metal shroud due to a broken motor mount would, but it wasn't reproducible based on load, and hasn't popped up driving around in the deep snow on the farm in low range.... The last two times it happened, it seemed to coincide with backing right off the throttle from cruising, then getting back on it lightly in less than a second. From when it happens, I would think it's something stemming from a hiccup in the engine control, but I'm at a loss as to how that would lead to such a sheet metally sound.
Did this noise ever return?
I didn't really move the accessories for the 2F-E in the FJ62. I did make a couple brackets (drawings in the article).
BTW, Did anyone recognize the piston in the link I included a few posts back as an early ('75 -'80) domed piston, or the later ('81 - '87) flat piston? The seller thinks it's the former.
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- #280
If you look back at post #63, you'll see the pistons that came out of my '83. They are definitely different that the one you have pictured there. That connecting rod doesn't look like it is the later "stamped" version either.
