Differential Help (2 Viewers)

[Niko Jackson]

Hello 80 series family, my cruiser has been out of commission since my front diff hand grenaded itself while pulling into a parking spot. Pulled the drain plug, very metallic, many shavings with additional metal too large to come out of the drain. I have been trying to navigate what to do while I have been on a tight budget this winter. I have been considering learning how to do the work myself and save some coins, obviously the other option is waiting to save up and have it professionally done. The other problem is sourcing parts. If I do it myself getting a whole new carrier assembly would be easier than pulling apart the ring pinion and spider gears. But if I have it done in a shop parts wouldn't be a problem. Any advice from more seasoned cruiser-heads would be very appreciated. Thanks guys.
High pinion, 4.1 ratio. Located in Jackson Wyoming.

 

[Nad Aitch]

If you're on a tight budget buy the whole 3rd from someone regearing/locking

 

[Broski]

If your handy at all (you need to to own one of these) than you can do it yourself!
Very few set up there own gears including me but you can save a ton of cash by pulling the diff yourself.
If you have done a knuckle rebuild you were more then 3/4 of the way there if you haven't it probably time to, so you can kill two birds with one stone.
If your on a tight budget and want to keep the 80 then you really do need to learn this stuff.
Then you can get the diff to a shop to do the ring&pinion. List time I hand my front done it was around $ 650.00 but it been a few years now.

 

[Broski]

If you're on a tight budget buy the whole 3rd from someone regearing/locking

Unless your getting locked OEM thirds from someone then you still need the diff housing
IMO not worth going through the time and or expense to set up used gears.
Now if you can find a complete third with the right gear ratio used to drop right in that's different , but it's still a gamble

 

[Niko Jackson]

If your handy at all (you need to to own one of these) than you can do it yourself!
Very few set up there own gears including me but you can save a ton of cash by pulling the diff yourself.
If you have done a knuckle rebuild you were more then 3/4 of the way there if you haven't it probably time to, so you can kill two birds with one stone.
If your on a tight budget and want to keep the 80 then you really do need to learn this stuff.
Then you can get the diff to a shop to do the ring&pinion. List time I hand my front done it was around $ 650.00 but it been a few years now.

Really good info. You're right, there is a time for every 80 owner to pop their knuckle rebuild cherry and it looks like it's my time. I'm not really intimidated by a knuckle rebuild since there are so many kits and how tos. But getting into the diff is something that sketches me out. I haven't found a lot in terms of guides on full diff rebuilds. There doesn't even seem like enough info to do it in my haynes manual. For the knuckles, are there any specific tools, guides, or kits you recommend that make the job possible/easier?

 

[knuckle47]

If you’re doing the complete disassembly you may find the centering tool is a necessity, but the 80 is likely different. But here’s the idea behind it

Knuckle Centering Tool

Toyota Land Cruiser 40 55 60 70 Series Properly dial in your front end and eliminate excess wear on seals and axles FSM (factory service manual) directions included Made from 4130 CrMo CNC machined for precision accuracy USA made from domestic materials APPLICATION: 40 Series, 55 Series...

www.trail-tailor.com

 

[Broski]

80 series doesn’t require the centering tool
There’s one shim or no shims on the top only and you just put it back.
Torque wrench, 54 mm socket and a set of snapping pliers are the only specialized tools needed for the job.
There’s a work around for everything else

 

[Broski]

Really good info. You're right, there is a time for every 80 owner to pop their knuckle rebuild cherry and it looks like it's my time. I'm not really intimidated by a knuckle rebuild since there are so many kits and how tos. But getting into the diff is something that sketches me out. I haven't found a lot in terms of guides on full diff rebuilds. There doesn't even seem like enough info to do it in my haynes manual. For the knuckles, are there any specific tools, guides, or kits you recommend that make the job possible/easier?

I would get the knuckle rebuild kit from Cruiseroutfitters.
Once you have the axles pulled then all you need to do is drop the drive shaft and and remove the diff nuts and diff come out as a unit.
Then I recommend taking that to a professional someone that just does differentials and or gear boxes.
If there’s no one local to you may be able to send to Cruiseroutfitters or possibly valley hybrid.

 

[Niko Jackson]

80 series doesn’t require the centering tool
There’s one shim or no shims on the top only and you just put it back.
Torque wrench, 54 mm socket and a set of snapping pliers are the only specialized tools needed for the job.
There’s a work around for everything else

What about the preload gauge?

 

[Broski]

What about the preload gauge?

If you sending you diff out your not going to need that

 

[Niko Jackson]

Thank you, all wise grease monkeys!

 

[Broski]

Happy to help keep us posted !

 

[BILT4ME]

Also, if you are at a point that you MUST have a vehicle, you can turn it into a 2WD until you have the time and $$$$ to get there.

1) Lock the CDL.
2) Remove the front DS.
3) Remove the drive flanges from the front hubs.
3A) You can add lockout hubs to the front hubs then leave them unlocked
3B) You can grind out the splines on the drive flanges and reinstall them so they keep the hubs sealed, but no longer grip the axle shaft. This would be considered a trail fix and not recommended for highway use because the axle shaft could see lack of lubrication in the ground out drive flange and cause it to get hot. Slow speeds only.
3C) Remove the drive flanges and cover the end of the hub with duct tape to keep out dirt and keep in some of the grease. Definitely an emergency trail fix.


Odds are that it's a ring and pinion.
Pull out the differential carrier and have someone rebuild it or buy a used one from someone on 'Mud. Then rebuild the front and drop in the new to you parts.

Should be easy to find an open front differential that fits.

Don't even try to set up the R&P yourself. I own the tools and have done a number of them, but it's such a PITA that I'll pay a professional to do it and I'm not wasting loads of my time getting frustrated.

And get a PROPER FSM from the "Resources" section above and throw the Haynes manual in the trash. Seriously. It has a LOT of wrong info.

 

[BILT4ME]

Check with @arcteryx (TX) or @slow95z (GA) to see if they have a complete operable front diff for your 97 FZJ80.


I know there are other recyclers in the West and PNW that may be closer to you, I just don't know them.

Heck, Cruiser Outfitters @cruiseroutfit is only 4.5 hours drive away from you.
I think they may have the ability to rebuild your diff or swap you.
Call them.
Kurt will advise here in a bit.

 

[Broski]

Also, if you are at a point that you MUST have a vehicle, you can turn it into a 2WD until you have the time and $$$$ to get there.

1) Lock the CDL.
2) Remove the front DS.
3) Remove the drive flanges from the front hubs.
3A) You can add lockout hubs to the front hubs then leave them unlocked
3B) You can grind out the splines on the drive flanges and reinstall them so they keep the hubs sealed, but no longer grip the axle shaft. This would be considered a trail fix and not recommended for highway use because the axle shaft could see lack of lubrication in the ground out drive flange and cause it to get hot. Slow speeds only.
3C) Remove the drive flanges and cover the end of the hub with duct tape to keep out dirt and keep in some of the grease. Definitely an emergency trail fix.


Odds are that it's a ring and pinion.
Pull out the differential carrier and have someone rebuild it or buy a used one from someone on 'Mud. Then rebuild the front and drop in the new to you parts.

Should be easy to find an open front differential that fits.

Don't even try to set up the R&P yourself. I own the tools and have done a number of them, but it's such a PITA that I'll pay a professional to do it and I'm not wasting loads of my time getting frustrated.

And get a PROPER FSM from the "Resources" section above and throw the Haynes manual in the trash. Seriously. It has a LOT of wrong info.

@Outsane makes a cap to replace the drive flange for the trail fix you spake of.

The one on the top works on the rear axle the black one on the bottom technically would work on the front or rear. They come with gaskets.
The front should work on quite a few Toyota front axles.
I carry these in my tool kit now after snapping both front axles on the trail.
Actually I carry two front and two rears. On the last run I loaned both rears to gay that was having rear diff issues.
He drove home from Deathvally to Southern California using them.

 

[Outsane]

Nice!

Thanks

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Easy fix @ Cruiser Outfitters. We build and ship diffs daily. We stock all the parts and have core diffs (non factory locked) ready to build to your specs.

 

[slow95z]

i dont sell just the diffs anymore. @TRAIL TAILOR buys almost every axle i can get my hands on these days so i just ship them to him complete.

 

[Wildcat Walker]

Replacing gears is not some sort of voodoo magic or impossible. The only "specialty" tools you need are a dial indicator and magnetic base, neither of which are hard to come by or even all that expensive. You've got two adjustments to make if you replace the ring and pinion, pinion depth (engagement) and backlash. Engagement is checked with gear paint, or Prussian blue, cheap and readily available. Engagement is adjusted with shims under the pinion. You can take an old pinion bearing and hone the I.D. to allow the bearing to slip easily on and off the pinion for quick adjustments/checks, then press your new bearing on once you have the engagement set. Backlash is set using the side adjusters on the carrier bearings, these move the 3rd member left and right with respect to the pinion gear. If you adjust engagement, then check/adjust backlash and vice versa. If your spider gears have taken damage and your ring and pinion survived, well the only thing to adjust would be backlash should you move the carrier bearing adjusters when disassembling. If you mark the position of the adjusters when you disassemble you'll be very close when re-assembling. If you want to throw new bearings and seals at it, get them ordered through Amayama and you will save a ton of $$$. The FSM is available in PDF form for free, do exactly what the manual says and you wont have any issues. If it were me, I would tear it down and asses. You can clean up everything while waiting on parts. You should probably be replacing the 4 bearings and pinion seal at a minimum if you've had any sort of particulate in the oil for any length of time. Only thing to do is to get to work and post pics. Good Luck.

 

[Broski]

Replacing gears is not some sort of voodoo magic or impossible. The only "specialty" tools you need are a dial indicator and magnetic base, neither of which are hard to come by or even all that expensive. You've got two adjustments to make if you replace the ring and pinion, pinion depth (engagement) and backlash. Engagement is checked with gear paint, or Prussian blue, cheap and readily available. Engagement is adjusted with shims under the pinion. You can take an old pinion bearing and hone the I.D. to allow the bearing to slip easily on and off the pinion for quick adjustments/checks, then press your new bearing on once you have the engagement set. Backlash is set using the side adjusters on the carrier bearings, these move the 3rd member left and right with respect to the pinion gear. If you adjust engagement, then check/adjust backlash and vice versa. If your spider gears have taken damage and your ring and pinion survived, well the only thing to adjust would be backlash should you move the carrier bearing adjusters when disassembling. If you mark the position of the adjusters when you disassemble you'll be very close when re-assembling. If you want to throw new bearings and seals at it, get them ordered through Amayama and you will save a ton of $$$. The FSM is available in PDF form for free, do exactly what the manual says and you wont have any issues. If it were me, I would tear it down and asses. You can clean up everything while waiting on parts. You should probably be replacing the 4 bearings and pinion seal at a minimum if you've had any sort of particulate in the oil for any length of time. Only thing to do is to get to work and post pics. Good Luck.

So a press is not a specialty tool, wood you not need a puller to get the old bearing off and what do you use to hone the old pinion bearing ?
OP is just starting out and has none of these tool and little or no experience so to him and me ( I have a lot of experience) it is voodoo magic as you call it, Hell a lot of regular auto shops won't do them or send them out out

It sound like you are very experienced and have a shop full of tools !!