Help me decide on front end lift solution. (1 Viewer)

[DIFF LOCK]

2004 Land Cruiser w/163K miles and non-AHC.

Currently has:

+ New OEM TOYOTA shocks on all four corners
+ Factory torsion bars turned up
+ New Old Man Emu 865 springs in rear + 10mm trim packers on both sides

Sits like a stink bug.

Center of center caps to fender measurements are:

Front: 19.75”
Rear: 22.5”

Needs new driver’s side UBJ so I was thinking about springing for the SPC UCAs, new torsion bars, and an alignment. How much front end lift should I do and will I need a diff drop kit too? What other guidance can you provide?

Thanks in advance.

 

[JOSHD]

You can use OME or IronMan torsion bars and get 21.5 inches in the front. You can go with SPC upper arms but you really only need the tubular offerings that are much cheaper. I have a diff drop but some say they are not necessary since you really can't lift these any higher than what AHC already provided.

 

[DIFF LOCK]

You can use OME or IronMan torsion bars and get 21.5 inches in the front. You can go with SPC upper arms but you really only need the tubular offerings that are much cheaper. I have a diff drop but some say they are not necessary since you really can't lift these any higher than what AHC already provided.

Thank you. Just updated OP to note mine is non-AHC.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

The cheapest and easiest option is to just re-index your existing torsion bars and then turn the adjusting bolts until you obtain your desired lift height. The general consensus is that 21.5” in the front is the max you can go…but expect to rip CV axle boots even with a diff drop.

 

[excessive]

OME or iron man torsion bars are really the only options that i know of. Are there others?

 

[clrussell]

After installing my diff drop I can tell you it does significantly help with cv vibrations. I was at 21.5 with no drop and had a slight vibration at 65-70. After the drop it’s gone.

It’s money well spent.

 

[MycoManiac]

OME or iron man torsion bars are really the only options that i know of. Are there others?

Sway-a-way

 

[jLB]

You could re-index and “crank” your existing OE torsion bars, or you could replace your OE torsion bars with aftermarket torsion bars (OME/Sway-a-way/Ironman/Dobinsons/ToughDog/etc).

Front lift is really limited by how much “droop” you have left, and how tolerant you are of the bad behaviors caused by limited “droop”. Different torsion bars do not change this. Aftermarket torsion bars are thicker, meaning a higher spring rate, to support more weight than stock.

To figure out “how much can I lift it?”, measure full droop, subtract a minimum of 2” (I prefer at least 2.75”) from your droop measurement, that should give you an idea of the maximum lift you should attempt on your front end.

As examples, both my LXs measure 24.75” in front at full droop. My DD 06 is at 20.5” with 4.25” of droop. My extra vehicle 99 LX is at 21.5” with 3.25” of droop. My son’s 00 LC measures 23.75” at full droop, is at 21” and has 2.75” of droop.

I may give @JunkCrzr89 a heart attack as he and I are usually at odds about aftermarket UCAs here, but what do you expect to gain with the SPC UCAs on your vehicle?

 

[DIFF LOCK]

You could re-index and “crank” your existing OE torsion bars, or you could replace your OE torsion bars with aftermarket torsion bars (OME/Sway-a-way/Ironman/Dobinsons/ToughDog/etc).

Front lift is really limited by how much “droop” you have left, and how tolerant you are of the bad behaviors caused by limited “droop”. Different torsion bars do not change this. Aftermarket torsion bars are thicker, meaning a higher spring rate, to support more weight than stock.

To figure out “how much can I lift it?”, measure full droop, subtract a minimum of 2” (I prefer at least 2.75”) from your droop measurement, that should give you an idea of the maximum lift you should attempt on your front end.

As examples, both my LXs measure 24.75” in front at full droop. My DD 06 is at 20.5” with 4.25” of droop. My extra vehicle 99 LX is at 21.5” with 3.25” of droop. My son’s 00 LC measures 23.75” at full droop, is at 21” and has 2.75” of droop.

I may give @JunkCrzr89 a heart attack here, as he and I are usually at odds about aftermarket UCAs here, but what do you expect to gain with the SPC UCAs on your vehicle?

I definitely need new UBJs and LBJs. I bought the 555s for my lower arms and tried doing one of the LBJs on my own, but can't get it apart.--not to mention that the rental tools are garbage. So I figured if I'm going to have to eat the cost of new UCAs and LCAs, why not spend a little more and get something nicer like the SPC UCAs or even the Dobinson's. At least the Dobinson's are more stout. But I don't plan on lifting it so high that I would require lots of additional alignment adjustment capabilities. I definitely don't want to be dumb with money, but $1,500 nets me Dobinson's UCAs, torsion bars, and a diff drop kit. I should be able to install all of these myself. Then I can do new OEM LCAs later on and if necessary, pay a shop to do them.

 

[JunkCrzr89]

I may give @JunkCrzr89 a heart attack as he and I are usually at odds about aftermarket UCAs here, but what do you expect to gain with the SPC UCAs on your vehicle?

 

[jLB]

I definitely need new UBJs and LBJs. I bought the 555s for my lower arms and tried doing one of the LBJs on my own, but can't get it apart.--not to mention that the rental tools are garbage. So I figured if I'm going to have to eat the cost of new UCAs and LCAs, why not spend a little more and get something nicer like the SPC UCAs or even the Dobinson's. At least the Dobinson's are more stout. But I don't plan on lifting it so high that I would require lots of additional alignment adjustment capabilities. I definitely don't want to be dumb with money, but $1,500 nets me Dobinson's UCAs, torsion bars, and a diff drop kit. I should be able to install all of these myself. Then I can do new OEM LCAs later on and if necessary, pay a shop to do them.

Aftermarket UCAs can be useful or "an upgrade" if:

You have lifted the front enough that the factory caster/camber adjustment isn't enough to get it in spec.​

​

You're running some big diameter extended length shocks, and have clearance issues or ball joint binding.​

​

You want easily replaceable upper ball joints.​

​

I guess if you're bending/breaking the OE stamped UCA, but the LCA really should be carrying the load, the UCA should be just keeping the wheel pointed the right way.​

​

(I've got aftermarket UCAs (SPC/Nitro/Trail Tailor) on all three of my 100 series, and if I bought a fourth tomorrow, I'd be adding aftermarket UCAs.)

From your descriptions, it sounds like you need new ball joints, but it doesn't seem like aftermarket UCAs really get you anything, unless you plan to go down the "chasing droop, in order to get a tiny bit more lift, and need more caster" rabbit hole.

I can see a bull bar in the initial post picture, maybe you can justify the aftermarket torsion bars due to weight, but as it has been pointed out in posts above, you also might be able to just re-index the OE torsion bars.

Oh s***! I'm starting to sound like my father, by even suggesting that there might be "upgrades" that you don't absolutely need on your vehicle! Nevermind, just buy it all...

 

[JunkCrzr89]

Oh s***! I'm starting to sound like my father, by even suggesting that there might be "upgrades" that you don't absolutely need on your vehicle!

I like the new jLB

 

[jLB]

I like the new jLB

No, I'm still the same old @jLB, that believes in "use it until you find a weakness, then try to address that weakness".

Though I still like my anti-instagram off road toy, with aftermarket UCAs and other weird ass suspension pieces.

 

[gatormark91]

I definitely need new UBJs and LBJs. I bought the 555s for my lower arms and tried doing one of the LBJs on my own, but can't get it apart.--not to mention that the rental tools are garbage. So I figured if I'm going to have to eat the cost of new UCAs and LCAs, why not spend a little more and get something nicer like the SPC UCAs or even the Dobinson's. At least the Dobinson's are more stout. But I don't plan on lifting it so high that I would require lots of additional alignment adjustment capabilities. I definitely don't want to be dumb with money, but $1,500 nets me Dobinson's UCAs, torsion bars, and a diff drop kit. I should be able to install all of these myself. Then I can do new OEM LCAs later on and if necessary, pay a shop to do them.

Read this:

Lower Ball Joint Replacement Instructions

Get yourself a 3/4 breaker bar, trust me it will be your favorite new tool. Then the caliper bolts will come off. The bolts have sealer on them which can really make tough to break loose. Remove bolts holding wheel speed sensor and brake line bracket, move out of the way with caliper. Remove...

forum.ih8mud.com

Buy this:
Amazon product ASIN B0028QGT86
Eveything you need to do your own LBJs - it is actually a pretty easy job if you follow the instructions and have this tool set. Just read everything @2001LC posted there. The tool set will pay for itself on just one lower ball joint, and you'll use it for years.

Also - pick up a long-reach balljoint puller - it will help pop eveything apart by using it to put some pressure on the TREs, etc, when you hit them with a hammer to break them loose.

 

[Pucker5]

I definitely need new UBJs and LBJs. I bought the 555s for my lower arms and tried doing one of the LBJs on my own, but can't get it apart.--not to mention that the rental tools are garbage. So I figured if I'm going to have to eat the cost of new UCAs and LCAs, why not spend a little more and get something nicer like the SPC UCAs or even the Dobinson's. At least the Dobinson's are more stout. But I don't plan on lifting it so high that I would require lots of additional alignment adjustment capabilities. I definitely don't want to be dumb with money, but $1,500 nets me Dobinson's UCAs, torsion bars, and a diff drop kit. I should be able to install all of these myself. Then I can do new OEM LCAs later on and if necessary, pay a shop to do them.

So lobbing it out there but new complete Uca’s also gives you new bushings at the same time if you are already less than pumped about changing your uca’s now and don’t want to worry about having to change bushings in the future as well.

Any current notes tr to the rumor that the mevotechs on rock auto are old spc’s abs would get the job done pretty cheap (although I think new toyota uca’s are only 150$ each

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Aftermarket UCAs can be useful or "an upgrade" if:

You have lifted the front enough that the factory caster/camber adjustment isn't enough to get it in spec.​

​

You're running some big diameter extended length shocks, and have clearance issues or ball joint binding.​

​

You want easily replaceable upper ball joints.​

​

I guess if you're bending/breaking the OE stamped UCA, but the LCA really should be carrying the load, the UCA should be just keeping the wheel pointed the right way.​

​

(I've got aftermarket UCAs (SPC/Nitro/Trail Tailor) on all three of my 100 series, and if I bought a fourth tomorrow, I'd be adding aftermarket UCAs.)

From your descriptions, it sounds like you need new ball joints, but it doesn't seem like aftermarket UCAs really get you anything, unless you plan to go down the "chasing droop, in order to get a tiny bit more lift, and need more caster" rabbit hole.

I can see a bull bar in the initial post picture, maybe you can justify the aftermarket torsion bars due to weight, but as it has been pointed out in posts above, you also might be able to just re-index the OE torsion bars.

Oh s***! I'm starting to sound like my father, by even suggesting that there might be "upgrades" that you don't absolutely need on your vehicle! Nevermind, just buy it all...

Did you actually have the issue of not being able to get your caster/camber in spec? If you couldn't get into spec, you are probably sitting too high and don't have enough droop.... but the aftermarket can get you MORE into spec I guess, if you're into that sort of thing.


There also really aren't that many options for the 100... reindex your tbars until you run more weight and run out of adjustment.

#SolidAxleLyf

 

[jLB]

Did you actually have the issue of not being able to get your caster/camber in spec? If you couldn't get into spec, you are probably sitting too high and don't have enough droop.... but the aftermarket can get you MORE into spec I guess, if you're into that sort of thing.

Is that kinda like "Can God do anything?" "Can he/she make a rock so big that he/she can't lift it?"?

Yes, I've lifted the front end of a IFS 100 series high enough that the alignment numbers were "off".

Yes, I've installed front shocks that were a larger diameter, and would contact an OE control arm at full droop.

Yes, I've installed longer front shocks that require an aftermarket control arm (collision & ball joint bind).

Was any of that "required"? No, but I wanted to try to get a little more out of my IFS.

Yes, I have owned a 1994 FZJ80 from 1994-2004, and know what I'm missing.

I guess I should've just left all of my 100 series stock, done a SAS, built mine exactly like yours, or gone back to the 80 series


It's not like I listed my droop numbers in this thread:

As examples, both my LXs measure 24.75” in front at full droop. My DD 06 is at 20.5” with 4.25” of droop. My extra vehicle 99 LX is at 21.5” with 3.25” of droop. My son’s 00 LC measures 23.75” at full droop, is at 21” and has 2.75” of droop.

Or that two of the three exceed the droop that I had stock (22.5" - 19.5" = 3").

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Is that kinda like "Can God do anything?" "Can he/she make a rock so big that he/she can't lift it?"?

Yes, I've lifted the front end of a IFS 100 series high enough that the alignment numbers were "off".

Yes, I've installed front shocks that were a larger diameter, and would contact an OE control arm at full droop.

Yes, I've installed longer front shocks that require an aftermarket control arm (collision & ball joint bind).

Was any of that "required"? No, but I wanted to try to get a little more out of my IFS.

Yes, I have owned a 1994 FZJ80 from 1994-2004, and know what I'm missing.

I guess I should've just left all of my 100 series stock, done a SAS, built mine exactly like yours, or gone back to the 80 series


It's not like I listed my droop numbers in this thread:

Or that two of the three exceed the droop that I had stock (22.5" - 19.5" = 3").

did I strike a nerve by asking about your caster numbers. Lemme buy you a beer and we cab make fun of Sean’s grey hair

 

[jLB]

Did you actually have the issue of not being able to get your caster/camber in spec? If you couldn't get into spec, you are probably sitting too high and don't have enough droop.... but the aftermarket can get you MORE into spec I guess, if you're into that sort of thing.


There also really aren't that many options for the 100... reindex your tbars until you run more weight and run out of adjustment.

#SolidAxleLyf
View attachment 2904522

did I strike a nerve by asking about your caster numbers. Lemme buy you a beer and we cab make fun of Sean’s grey hair

Nope, no nerve was struck...

Where was it again, that you asked for my caster numbers?

Kid's caster is slightly "over spec", my LXs are about dead center of spec.

Don't I remember using offset bushings on my old 80 series to get caster back in spec, or is that just too much lift on an 80 series?

I drove on factory UCAs on my 06 LX for ~12 years, and they worked just fine.

My first experience with aftermarket UCAs, on a 100 series, was in ~2014, trying to "fix" a previous owner's F'ed up lift, along with all sorts of worn bits in the steering/suspension, on my son's 00 LC. A little "extra" caster helped, until we could dig through all of the s*** that needed to be fixed, on a 15 year old's first vehicle (before he got his license at 16). Necessary, no. Helped, yes. Still has a little extra caster dialed in.

I wanted to play with longer shocks on the two LXs. Aftermarket UCAs necessary? Yes, with those shocks, not for caster, but for clearance.

I'd prefer a nice bourbon, and I probably have more grey hair than Sean, but sure, why not...

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Nope, no nerve was struck...

Where was it again, that you asked for my caster numbers?

Kid's caster is slightly "over spec", my LXs are about dead center of spec.

Don't I remember using offset bushings on my old 80 series to get caster back in spec, or is that just too much lift on an 80 series?

I drove on factory UCAs on my 06 LX for ~12 years, and they worked just fine.

My first experience with aftermarket UCAs, on a 100 series, was in ~2014, trying to "fix" a previous owner's F'ed up lift, along with all sorts of worn bits in the steering/suspension, on my son's 00 LC. A little "extra" caster helped, until we could dig through all of the s*** that needed to be fixed, on a 15 year old's first vehicle (before he got his license at 16). Necessary, no. Helped, yes. Still has a little extra caster dialed in.

I wanted to play with longer shocks on the two LXs. Aftermarket UCAs necessary? Yes, with those shocks, not for caster, but for clearance.

I'd prefer a nice bourbon, and I probably have more grey hair than Sean, but sure, why not...

I have a Garrison Bro’s Laguna Madre we can crack open.