What are you guys who have "been there, done that" using for tuning fuel/timing on the FJ80 and FZJ80's? Anyone gone full standalone? Anyone using piggybacks? Anyone found ways with ROM tunes or flashes of any sort?
ECU Tuning options
- Thread starter NKP Garage
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- #2
Looks like there's a new Megasquirt standalone ECU that is plug'n'play for the 1FZ-FE DIYPNP Available Models at DIYAutoTune.com
From what I see it will plug right into the factory ECU harness. I wonder if it requires any other sort of pickup/wheel/etc... for the ignition or if it reads off of the OEM distributor okay? Anyone know, or have experience with the Megasquirt on the 1FZ?
From what I see it will plug right into the factory ECU harness. I wonder if it requires any other sort of pickup/wheel/etc... for the ignition or if it reads off of the OEM distributor okay? Anyone know, or have experience with the Megasquirt on the 1FZ?
A quote from the site mentioned above:
Note that some models above had computer controlled automatic transmissions - if this is the case for your car, the DIYPNP will not be able to control the transmission beyond control of a basic lock up torque converter. If you have an automatic transmission, please check before ordering.
and another:
Available Features / Technical Specifications
Based on MS2/E Firmware Version 2.1.1 or later
* OEM ECU Connector to plug right into the factory harness!
* Speed Density, Alpha-N and Hybrid Alpha-N (both SD and A-N algorithms hybridized) Supported
* 2 Ignition Inputs (for dual wheel ignitions)
* 4 Spark Outputs (Up to 4 Cylinder Coil On Plug, up to 8 Cylinder Wasted Spark)
* Rotary Ignition Support
* Enhanced Acceleration Enrichment (EAE)
* Boost Control
* Knock Control
* Launch Control
* Flat Shift
* Tachometer Output
* Fully Adjustable Rev Limiter
* Table Switching
* 4 General PurposeOutputs
* 4 General Purpose Inputs (2 analog, 2 digital)
* Support for Flex Fuel
* Optional Realtime Baro Correction
* Closed Loop O2 Correction
* Plenty of Proto Area, add your own customizations!
* There's more than we could list here-- click this link to view the full featurelist of MS2/E.
* Also- you can click this link for the official DIYPNP Product Page Feature List which includes the above list plus a hardware level feature list (that tells you not just what you can do, but what hardware is available to do it)
Note: Some of the features listed above use the General Purpose Inputs/Outputs.
Note that some models above had computer controlled automatic transmissions - if this is the case for your car, the DIYPNP will not be able to control the transmission beyond control of a basic lock up torque converter. If you have an automatic transmission, please check before ordering.
and another:
Available Features / Technical Specifications
Based on MS2/E Firmware Version 2.1.1 or later
* OEM ECU Connector to plug right into the factory harness!
* Speed Density, Alpha-N and Hybrid Alpha-N (both SD and A-N algorithms hybridized) Supported
* 2 Ignition Inputs (for dual wheel ignitions)
* 4 Spark Outputs (Up to 4 Cylinder Coil On Plug, up to 8 Cylinder Wasted Spark)
* Rotary Ignition Support
* Enhanced Acceleration Enrichment (EAE)
* Boost Control
* Knock Control
* Launch Control
* Flat Shift
* Tachometer Output
* Fully Adjustable Rev Limiter
* Table Switching
* 4 General PurposeOutputs
* 4 General Purpose Inputs (2 analog, 2 digital)
* Support for Flex Fuel
* Optional Realtime Baro Correction
* Closed Loop O2 Correction
* Plenty of Proto Area, add your own customizations!
* There's more than we could list here-- click this link to view the full featurelist of MS2/E.
* Also- you can click this link for the official DIYPNP Product Page Feature List which includes the above list plus a hardware level feature list (that tells you not just what you can do, but what hardware is available to do it)
Note: Some of the features listed above use the General Purpose Inputs/Outputs.
fj80toyman
...One Landcruiser at a time
Sorry, too suspect. Lists Lexus LX450 96/97 but does not list Landcruiser 1FZ (or am I not seein' it?)
And, the 95 and later 1FZ had the Transmission ECU and the Engine ECU in one box.
Risky.
Dan.
And, the 95 and later 1FZ had the Transmission ECU and the Engine ECU in one box.
Risky.
Dan.
LC was listed on one of the pages I saw...
- Thread starter
- #6
Ya, LC was listed as well as the LX450. Looks like they just missed it on one page. Not sure how the auto transmission control would come into play.
There's always the Unichip.
I've seen some folks with great success using the AEM FIC as well, it's not a full standalone ECU, but it does allow manipulation of both fuel and timing: AEM - Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
There's always the Unichip.
I've seen some folks with great success using the AEM FIC as well, it's not a full standalone ECU, but it does allow manipulation of both fuel and timing: AEM - Fuel / Ignition Controller (F/IC)
Link to the diyautotune site, article about running megasquirt parallel to the stock ECU, basically sharing some inputs, but outputs would come from whichever ECU you wire it for... this would allow the stock ECU to believe it was working and it could then control the trans.
Installing Megasquirt in parallel with the stock ECU
Installing Megasquirt in parallel with the stock ECU
- Thread starter
- #8
Anyone know much about the Unichip? From what I've read it looks like only shops certified by Unichip are able to manipulate the tune. Is that correct or has anyone come up with any other ways to tune the Unichip?
Options that I see so far that are doable and somewhat cost effective are:
* Get an standalone ECU system, make a custom harness pinned out properly to allow use of the standalone for tuning and use of the OEM ECU for control of the tranny and other functions
* Get a piggy back that is capable of controlling both fuel maps and timing maps, make a custom harness pinned out properly to retain control of the tranny and other functions with the OEM ECU, while allowing control of fuel/timing with the piggy back unit
* Use a piggy back fuel controller to manipulate MAF/AFM signals to the ECU to control fueling. This is usually frowned upon by tuners due to the lack of control over timing. It also plays havoc on timing values since the ECU is "tricked" into thinking that you're at a different load point than you really are. Advantage would be that this requires far less tricky wiring, and is much cheaper than the above two options
Anyone with personal or second hand experience with anything tuning related on these trucks?
Options that I see so far that are doable and somewhat cost effective are:
* Get an standalone ECU system, make a custom harness pinned out properly to allow use of the standalone for tuning and use of the OEM ECU for control of the tranny and other functions
* Get a piggy back that is capable of controlling both fuel maps and timing maps, make a custom harness pinned out properly to retain control of the tranny and other functions with the OEM ECU, while allowing control of fuel/timing with the piggy back unit
* Use a piggy back fuel controller to manipulate MAF/AFM signals to the ECU to control fueling. This is usually frowned upon by tuners due to the lack of control over timing. It also plays havoc on timing values since the ECU is "tricked" into thinking that you're at a different load point than you really are. Advantage would be that this requires far less tricky wiring, and is much cheaper than the above two options
Anyone with personal or second hand experience with anything tuning related on these trucks?
the unichip that was shipped with the Safari turbo system had some sort of burn out issue with them. I'm not sure about now.
FWIW, when I start tuning my system I'll be trying to ogment the stock system to handle the boost on it's own.
FWIW, when I start tuning my system I'll be trying to ogment the stock system to handle the boost on it's own.
- Thread starter
- #10
As long as you're within the limitations of the factory fuel system I think manipulating the OEM setup like you plan to is probably the best route to go. I was thinking more along the lines of ways to tune when moving to larger fuel injectors for power levels greater than what the stock setup is able to support.
Just judging strictly on the size of the fuel injectors and the size of the motor, I would guess that you'd be able to squeeze around 210-250whp out of the factory injectors. Bump the base fuel pressure up by 10psi and install an upgraded fuel pump and you might be able to get another 20-30whp out of it. Although I think that'd plenty for most folks here, I can easily see these motors supporting upwards of 350whp with a few modifications, a well matched turbo and a "safe" pump gas tune. I see from searching the forums that a very small number of folks have given it a shot, but I couldn't find much info on what people have used to actually tune with.
FWIW, I have a UniChip that I deliberately don't use due to the tuning all at 0 ft altitude and the fact that they tend to basically burn out without warning at least at higher altitudes (haven't heard of that at 0ft).
It is pretty well proven that the stock fuel system on 95-97 rigs can handle 10 psi and 300 to 325 HP.
It is pretty well proven that the stock fuel system on 95-97 rigs can handle 10 psi and 300 to 325 HP.
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- #12
300-325 WHP? or at the crank/ I was talking about WHP? Do you have links to any dynos or threads with dynos? I haven't been able to find any searching through the forum.FWIW, I have a UniChip that I deliberately don't use due to the tuning all at 0 ft altitude and the fact that they tend to basically burn out without warning at least at higher altitudes (haven't heard of that at 0ft).
It is pretty well proven that the stock fuel system on 95-97 rigs can handle 10 psi and 300 to 325 HP.
right now I'm going to try and change the injectors system on my truck from a saturated one to a peak and hold one. This will allow me to run the 460cc injectors from the older Supras.
I'm still of the belief that our ECUs are MAF input based and altering the MAF signal to match the injector size is all that is needed to tune for them.
I could be completely wrong and out in left field on this one also.
I'm still of the belief that our ECUs are MAF input based and altering the MAF signal to match the injector size is all that is needed to tune for them.
I could be completely wrong and out in left field on this one also.
- Thread starter
- #14
If that works, it would be a great option for these trucks that will allow taking them further with far less $$.
Since I will be at 034 in the next few weeks for my post-exhaust Dyno test, I will pose the question to them directly on what their thoughts are on manipulation of the ECU input signals with a piggyback vs. going to a standalone Stage 1c system for the FZJ80.
As noted in earlier posts, the whole control of the transmission and some other areas may make the standalone more of a problem, or at least add a few hurdles to jump over. In anycase worth opening that dialog with 034 while my truck is sitting in their bay, and the Dyno figures are at hand and stored online in their system.
In the end, it is great that we are all looking for the same thing, more power, better efficiency, and a reliable system.
With all of this in mind, I am welding Wideband and EGT bungs into my Y pipe before install, hopefully to give a bit more feedback towards tuning and on-road use.
As noted in earlier posts, the whole control of the transmission and some other areas may make the standalone more of a problem, or at least add a few hurdles to jump over. In anycase worth opening that dialog with 034 while my truck is sitting in their bay, and the Dyno figures are at hand and stored online in their system.
In the end, it is great that we are all looking for the same thing, more power, better efficiency, and a reliable system.
With all of this in mind, I am welding Wideband and EGT bungs into my Y pipe before install, hopefully to give a bit more feedback towards tuning and on-road use.
Scott, whether you agree at all or not makes no matter; we all know that toyota prefers really rich running engines and sure at 6.5psi AFR's are really rich at 10.0 or even sub 10.0 but at 9.5psi (where I'm at at the moment) AFR's are almost at 11.5 showing that as the boost increases and as the air increases and as the fuel dump delivers the same massive squirt (too much and not able to be minutely metered, I do actually agree), AFR's improve. Since you are always running at around 5 to 6.5 psi depending on what pulley you put on, whydontcha let those that have run higher boost say what is what okay? Again it is pretty well proven that the stock fuel system "handles" 10 psi and 300 to 325 HP and you can't really argue about that till you've "BTDT" as you always say.
1. "Handles", the way I'm using it, infers that it works well, produces plenty power, and does so really reliably - whatever way you want to use the word "handles" is up to you but that's the way I'm using it.
2. Both the stock system AND a forced induction from 7psi down run crazy rich so that analogy is awful - its not that the system is overwhelmed ... it is just oversized (again I agree that it isn't one to minutely meter the fuel which is why the Open Loop dump is drastically rich).
3. I did not bring the term "control" into this thread, so stop saying that I "claim better control" I used the term "handles" and I already further defined my definition for "handles".
4. I'm not throwing any additional hardware or software as you say at anything here I'm just adding more boost. My theory all along is that due to the dump of fuel in Open Loop, you either have to reduce the fuel or increase the air. That's as simple as it gets and I've pretty well proven my theory to myself; as I've ratcheted up the boost my AFR's have steadily "improved" which was the exact term I used earlier. BTDT, IME, BTST and all your other points of proof notwithstanding.
Again. Lastly, I'm not going to go down another pointless rabbit hole here with you, I've got tens of thousands of miles proving my point to myself with careful scanner results, wideband results, emissions tests etc. Philosophize and pontificate all you want, I'm proving my point mile-by-mile and psi-by-psi.
I claim it's not 'working' at all. If MAF load tables include a programmed value for VE, how exactly can it do anything reliably with any boost profile? I claim it can't without modification to the software, or hunt and peck with the hardware.
No, it's specifically 'software' overwhelmed, because it can't control fuel using the normally aspirated load tables. If the ecu isn't controlling fuel, there is no such thing as 'oversized' - yet. Oversized for what?
If there is no feedback loop control of fueling, the ecu isn't "handling" anything. Rephrased, the stock ECU fuel tables can't handle 10psi of boost on a 80 truck. The stock ECU fuel tables can't handle 7psi of boost on an 80 truck either.
Shaun, I'm not here to debate you on how EFI works, more specifically how it doesn't, or how it *can't*. Right now, I claim the fuel tables in the F10 ECU can't handle boost profiles. If one could program the tables, it might be able to. You want to claim you observe 11:1 AFR putting 10psi into your motor? I'm fine with that claim, but that's an incidental number, and it does in no way prove the stock ecu handles boost in any way.4. I'm not throwing any additional hardware or software as you say at anything here I'm just adding more boost. My theory all along is that due to the dump of fuel in Open Loop, you either have to reduce the fuel or increase the air. That's as simple as it gets and I've pretty well proven my theory to myself; as I've ratcheted up the boost my AFR's have steadily "improved" which was the exact term I used earlier. BTDT, IME, BTST and all your other points of proof notwithstanding.
...
Let it go, and the discussion get back to the alternatives available. Even including your observations and data, there appears to be a major problem with the stock ecu programming handling/controlling any boost profile.
The good news is, that many of the alternatives can control and handle fuel at any AFR down to below 11:1
Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
If that works, it would be a great option for these trucks that will allow taking them further with far less $$.
With the final completion of my manifold I'll get the time to go out and test my ideas. I have a truck that it's sole purpose is to be a platform for a turbo system.
You might check out the FSM in the trouble shooting section for the MAF sensor. In the diagrams they show the whole circuit. You will see that the MAF signal line enters the ECU block and there are 2 resistors in that diagram. One resistor connects to ground and the other continues on. Those 2 resistors are for tuning the MAF signal before it hits the processor.
So the raw signal from the MAF is manipulated prior to processing. This was a common practice on the equipment I worked on except instead of hard resistors we had variable ones. I'm hoping that I can alter the signals strength and slope to get what I want.
Even if that does work it comes down to whether or not I have a MAF which will produce a consistent signal through out the range for the air flow the engine will produce.
I don't know how productive this winter will be but it will be a lot of fun!
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On another note, I wonder how something like Megasquirt, would go over at the emissions testing station? They just hook up to the OBDII port here, I think they use the sniffer on pre-OBDII vehicles. I wonder if they could (ie. are allowed to) just use the sniffer, even if a car is "supposed" to have OBDII. I know every state will probably be different. Something to look into, before someone commits to that route.
EDIT: I suppose if you keep the inputs to the stock ECU (to operate the tranny), it will still "work" for OBDII emissions testing purposes, as it will still think it is working fully.
EDIT: I suppose if you keep the inputs to the stock ECU (to operate the tranny), it will still "work" for OBDII emissions testing purposes, as it will still think it is working fully.
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