Real time - ARB bull bar for 80: roller fairlead location with M12?

[e9999]

OK, am about to put the roller fairlead on the 80 ARB winch bull bar. This with a Warn M12.

The roller fairlead is 4.7" high total. It's the Warn that came with the M12. Don't know if that's a standard size one.

Need to put the roller fairlead on.

If I use the existing midheight holes in the fairlead, it's way low and the fairlead opening is not at all centered on the ARB slit. Forget that.

Now, if I position the fairlead all the way up snug against the ARB shelf, the fairlead opening is more or less centered with the ARB opening. Better.
However, if I do that, with the Warn M12, the fairlead opening is rather high w.r.t. to the winch spool. With some rough measurements, for all 4 outside most layers of rope, the rope will have go up from the spool to the fairlead before it goes out, meaning it will bend and will pull down on the fairlead. The innermost layer will still not be centered "in front" of the opening but is not too much lower than the lower fairlead roller edge, maybe 1/2" or so. So, for the innermost layer, the rope will be nowhere as bent at for the outermost one, but still not coming straight out. Since the pull is larger for the innermost layer, you'd want the least amount of bending for that one, so at least it's the right direction. Still, I'm thinking serious forces downward on this fairlead for the outer layers...

However, I could lower the fairlead by another 1/2" or 3/4", putting the opening a bit lower so that the innermost layer will come out just about in front of the opening, with less bending. For this, I'll have to put some spacers on top of the fairlead and it won't be snug in the ARB shelf. There is more of a chance of the rope rubbing against the lower edge of the ARB opening this way, though.

Question:
- do I lower it, in an anal and perhaps futile effort to have everything better aligned?
- or I just stick it up there all the way against the ARB shelf cuz it doesn't matter one bit if the rope comes out horizontal through the fairlead since it all depends on the rope anchor anyways... Plus if it's not working well, I can always flip it over and try again with new holes. And less chances of rubbing against the ARB opening edge.

Leaning towards the second.

But experts opinions?

 

[cruiserdan]

You have to drill something to make it work. I do not remember what that something is. I do remember two holes needing to be relocated. I think it relates to moving the fairlead flush againsh the truss.

 

[e9999]

You have to drill something to make it work. I do not remember what that something is. I do remember two holes needing to be relocated. I think it relates to moving the fairlead flush againsh the truss.

that's right, needs 2 new holes, but my question is IOW "where to put these new holes, all the way down or not?"

 

[Grench]

IIRC here's how I did it. YMMV. Your own risk, etc... If it doesn't seem right it probably isn't.

Bolt the fairlead on using the two long bolts (temporary) without the rollers.

Lay it face down on a 3 or 5 gallon bucket.

Drill into the fairlead from inside the bumper. Thats where those 2 new holes need to be.

I put mine on a few years ago, so I may have forgotten bits.

 

[e9999]

IIRC here's how I did it. YMMV. Your own risk, etc... If it doesn't seem right it probably isn't.

Bolt the fairlead on using the two long bolts (temporary) without the rollers.

Lay it face down on a 3 or 5 gallon bucket.

Drill into the fairlead from inside the bumper. Thats where those 2 new holes need to be.

I put mine on a few years ago, so I may have forgotten bits.

if you bolted it up with the 2 long bolts and no spacers, then it was all the way up (second possibility above). I may just do that, a bit easier, except that this can't be too good for the rope...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Eric-Slow down. You are about to make a terrible mistake. DO not drill the bumper. Do not drill the bumper. Do not drill the bumper. More than one person has drilled the bumper and it is wrong. Even one relatively famous Land Cruiser professional has drilled the bumper-it was still wrong.

Instead, as suggested by Grench, set the fairlead in where it needs to go. You can just hold it up. Use the existing hole in the bumper and a pencil to draw the hole outline on the back of the fairlead. Then remove the outside rollers of the fairlead, and drill the 1/2 inch holes in the fairlead from the back. Then, install the bolts through the fairlead, through the existing hole in the bumper and into the winch body. Re-install the outside rollers with the supplied 5/8 bolts. It will be perfect. Do not overanalyze this. It looks like you drill the bumper-you don't drill the bumper. You only drill new holes in the fairlead.

Notice you NEVER DRILL THE BUMPER.

I know you are going to FAWK IT UP and drill the bumper anyway, but it will be wrong.

Good luck, and there will be a careful inspection at Surf and Turf '07 to see if you drilled the bumper in the wrong spot.

 

[e9999]

Eric-Slow down. You are about to make a terrible mistake. DO not drill the bumper. Do not drill the bumper. Do not drill the bumper. More than one person has drilled the bumper and it is wrong. Even one relatively famous Land Cruiser professional has drilled the bumper-it was still wrong.

Instead, as suggested by Grench, set the fairlead in where it needs to go. You can just hold it up. Use the existing hole in the bumper and a pencil to draw the hole outline on the back of the fairlead. Then remove the outside rollers of the fairlead, and drill the 1/2 inch holes in the fairlead from the back. Then, install the bolts through the fairlead, through the existing hole in the bumper and into the winch body. Re-install the outside rollers with the supplied 5/8 bolts. It will be perfect. Do not overanalyze this. It looks like you drill the bumper-you don't drill the bumper. You only drill new holes in the fairlead.

Notice you NEVER DRILL THE BUMPER.

I know you are going to FAWK IT UP and drill the bumper anyway, but it will be wrong.

Good luck, and there will be a careful inspection at Surf and Turf '07 to see if you drilled the bumper in the wrong spot.

who said anything about drilling the bumper? that would be foolish. Basic rule of modding: always modify the cheapest part! Of course, I'm going to drill the fairlead. As I said above, I can even drill twice at 2 different heights by flipping it over...
What I'm trying to figure out if I should put the fairlead all the way up, like it seems everybody is doing or fine tune it by lowering it a bit. It's bugging me that the rope will be bending so much to get over the roller.
I take it you stuck it all the way up too, then?

added: the basic problem is that I don't know if the ARB was designed for a fairlead of the same height as this one or not. For all I know, Warn has had several different fairleads. Plus the various winches probably have different diameters of spools. If so, they can't all be aligned properly...

 

[cruiserdan]

Move it all the way up. That is how I did my Slee. I was not sure the ARB procedure was the same. I did the same thing Andrew suggested. I put the fairlead tight against the brace and marked it on the backside through the existing holes in the bumper.

 

[e9999]

I think it's worse for the 12000 than for the 8000. The former has a 3.5" spool vs 2.5" for the latter. Plus the rope is thicker on the former. It's probably an inch further out from the center axis on the outside layer than the 8000, so much more out of alignment and more rope distortion.

(Am I the only one to think about these things...? Don't answer- )

 

[NW-sickboy]

m12000.... your not f-ing around.. drill the fairlead and be done with it....

 

[Cruiserdrew]

(Am I the only one to think about these things...? Don't answer- )

No, you are the only one to imagine theoretical "problems" where HUNDREDS of others have gone before you and have actual experience to back up what they say.

Here is something else for you to worry about. If you don't tuck the fairlead all the way up, you will scrape the bottom of the fairlead itself on rocks and ledges, especially in places like Moab. Mine is tucked up, and I have still managed to scrape the bottoms of the 5/8 bolts that support the vertical rollers. I have seen others bash in the ears of the fairlead as well. My advice is to tuck it up as far as your bumper will allow.

 

[Romer]

Lots of threads on this topic Eric.

Search Search Search

Oh, and don't drill the bumper

 

[619TOY]

e9999, If you look up my post "roller failead on arb bumper" there is a very close up shot of where to drill the hole. Sorry I'm too stupid to figure out how to post a link this morning. I did as others have said, hold it in place as high as possible up into the truss and mark the fairlead through the holes in the bumper. Good luck

P.S. you posted on my thread;p

 

[e9999]

snip


Here is something else for you to worry about. If you don't tuck the fairlead all the way up, you will scrape the bottom of the fairlead itself on rocks and ledges, especially in places like Moab. Mine is tucked up, and I have still managed to scrape the bottoms of the 5/8 bolts that support the vertical rollers. I have seen others bash in the ears of the fairlead as well. My advice is to tuck it up as far as your bumper will allow.

now, that's a good point.

Btw, you said that you had to change your rope after only a few pulls. Is it possible that this had anything to do with the excessive bending I'm talking about here?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

now, that's a good point.

Btw, you said that you had to change your rope after only a few pulls. Is it possible that this had anything to do with the excessive bending I'm talking about here?

No, it had to do with the precarious recovery of John P's 80 in deep snow. I was pulling at a side angle and John's truck was 175 feet away. There was no way to reposition because the snow was bottomless and the 80s were too heavy and kept digging down in the snow. The wire rope all piled up at one end, but I couldn't stop pulling because there was a huge lip off the trail and if his truck had slid into that, it would have spent the winter right there. It kinked up the cable. It was probably still safe to use, but John gave me another cable, so I just swapped it out.

If you look at 619toy's thread as he suggested, there is a very good picture of where the bolt hole ends up in the fairlead. Also a good comment by a Land Rover dude at the very end. You may not realize it, but ih8mud has a very nice search function.

I am detecting analysis paralysis here. Just go do it and post pictures of the new holes in your bumper.

 

[landtank]

How is it you buy a winch with a fairlead that doesn't fit? While I didn't buy a warn the fairlead was made to fit and it centered up nicely.

 

[photogod]

Fairlead on the 9000 and 12000 is the same. Follow the Warn directions and the other posters, bolt the fairlead up as far as you can inside the truss and remove the vertical rollers and mark ithe bottom winch mounting holes from the inside, remove and drill new holes in the fairlead and rebolt it with the winch on before you mount the bumper to the truck .

And remember not to drill the bumper

 

[e9999]

oh, dammit, I'll just stick it all the way up there....

if the rope doesn't last or the fairlead pops off, it'll be your fault...!


619, looks like your rope is as much bent as mine, you can see it coming up and over the roller. Maybe even more than mine will be, cuz it looks like your holes in the fairlead are lower than I plan to do mine. I'll lift the winch up as much as it'll go. There is almost 1/2" of play.



oh well.....

 

[alia176]

Eric,

I just snapped couple of pics for you. It looks like I drilled an extra set of holes that I might've used on the previous ARB bumper where this winch used to live. The two bolts that go through the fairlead are screwing themselves into the two lower winch threaded holes. This is a M10000 so the bolt holes should have the same dimensions as the 12,000.

Ali

 

[Grench]

I skipped the pencil part by bolting in the two vertical bolts and then drilling the fairlead from the inside using the bumper's holes for guides. It worked slick.

And, to repeat...

Do not drill into your bumper. At least not for this project.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=109434&highlight=ongaro