Flange on Saginaw gearbox

[truggier]

Searched for advice on this but couldn't find it. I'm doing a Sagninaw PS conversion (among many other things), and am trying to avoid cutting up the crossmember too much. My gearbox has this huge flange on it that adds a half inch to the diameter of the hole I need to cut in the crossmember. With the flange, it's almost 3.25 inches across...the diameter of the gearbox body behind it is only 2.75 inches. Has anyone ever ground this down or cut off the excess?

 

[3DAMAN!]

Man, I hope this thread brings on the chat.
I have ask my self that very same question.
Damn thing doesn't do any thing!

 

[Poser]

.25" is what the "problem" is?

 

[Fast Eddy]

I was able to get away with a slightly smaller hole and use the cutouts in the flange to work it into the hole. The hole in my cross member doesn't go to the edge.

If you grind on it you may not get your core deposit back next time.

 

[miker]

you couuld use one of these and not put the nose of the gear box through the cross-member.
716835 | Engine & Transmission Conversion Adapters - Advance Adapters

 

[truggier]

.25" is what the "problem" is?

Well yeah...double it and that's half an inch. It means I can avoid cutting into the top of the crossmember too severely. I'd like to recess the gearbox into the crossmember - it's better than moving the bumper forward.

 

[truggier]

I was able to get away with a slightly smaller hole and use the cutouts in the flange to work it into the hole. The hole in my cross member doesn't go to the edge.

If you grind on it you may not get your core deposit back next time.

That's a good idea, but I was going to use steel tubing for a sleeve insert to try and maintain the cross member integrity. Which means I can't slip the flange past anything since the tube would have a constant inner diameter all the way through.

 

[truggier]

you couuld use one of these and not put the nose of the gear box through the cross-member.
716835 | Engine & Transmission Conversion Adapters - Advance Adapters

Thanks man. I've got a spud shaft already, was trying not to use it.

 

[truggier]

I've read enough about frame cracks here to be worried about hacking into the crossmember too much. I've also read that it is standard practice to make a 3" hole in the crossmember so a tube sleeve can be inserted and welded. See the following thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/166810-saginaw-steering-box-fab-question.html

I'm assuming that's the O.D. of the tube. Thing is, even if it was I.D., my gearbox would never fit because of that flange.

Looks like even on the tube you can get at Cruiser Outfitters (http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/powersteering.html), the flange doesn't let you recess the gearbox very far. Does the gearbox interfere with the front bumper when the Saginaw flange is flush against the crossmember?

 

[Markh]

4x4Labs has a crossmember bezel for PS conversions that can be welded on making the crossmember a lot stronger where the hole for the PS gear needs to be cut. I haven't tried it my self but I remembered seeing it so I thought I'd pass it along.

 

[77TLCFJ40]

I carefully ground that flange down until it fit inside the crossmember sleve. When cutting/grinding it, I didn't keep the blade in one place long in order to avoid excessive heat. No issues or leaks at the box for almost 2 years.

 

[3DAMAN!]

I carefully ground that flange down until it fit inside the crossmember sleve. When cutting/grinding it, I didn't keep the blade in one place long in order to avoid excessive heat. No issues or leaks at the box for almost 2 years.

Thats what he's looking for

 

[truggier]

Thats what he's looking for

Yup. Wanted to know if someone had done it. Guess I'll worry about the core later if necessary. Thanks guys.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Looks like even on the tube you can get at Cruiser Outfitters (Cruiser Outfitters), the flange doesn't let you recess the gearbox very far. Does the gearbox interfere with the front bumper when the Saginaw flange is flush against the crossmember?

With our tube and steering box flange you can recess the box as far back as the power steering hoses will allow you. This is with zero mods to the flange or the box itself.

As you can see its the hose fittings that limit your depth. On my personal FJ40 I notched my frame slightly to allow me to push my box back even further, it was needed as I trimmed the front of my frame and sucked my bumper a bit.

We sell the cross member tubes individually, its a seamless ID and OD for a nice clean fit and no worries about your flanges catching that seem on the inside and binding your steering.

 

[peesalot]

I agree 100% to not use spud shaft and to not grind that flange. Use Kurt's stuff and roll.

 

[vfrer]

With our tube and steering box flange you can recess the box as far back as the power steering hoses will allow you. This is with zero mods to the flange or the box itself.

As you can see its the hose fittings that limit your depth. On my personal FJ40 I notched my frame slightly to allow me to push my box back even further, it was needed as I trimmed the front of my frame and sucked my bumper a bit.

We sell the cross member tubes individually, its a seamless ID and OD for a nice clean fit and no worries about your flanges catching that seem on the inside and binding your steering.

I used the cruiseroutfitters setup and had the same issue with the flange as described above. Quite simply there was no way the steering box was going to fit into the tube. I cut the outer edge of the flange off and stuffed it in as shown in Kurt's picture. No problems so far. Also went a little at a time to keep the heat down.

 

[Fast Eddy]

With a good bumper just ahead of that x-member and the mounted motor just behind it, I honestly am not very worried about the strength of it. I'm not planning to have a tube at all. Time will tell.

 

[truggier]

I used the cruiseroutfitters setup and had the same issue with the flange as described above. Quite simply there was no way the steering box was going to fit into the tube. I cut the outer edge of the flange off and stuffed it in as shown in Kurt's picture. No problems so far. Also went a little at a time to keep the heat down.

So it seems that we have some people who can use Kurt's tube without grinding the gearbox, and others who can't. Perhaps all Saginaw gearboxes aren't the same?

Kurt, what's the I.D. of your tube? I can tell you right away if it will work for me without modifying my gearbox or not.

 

[truggier]

With a good bumper just ahead of that x-member and the mounted motor just behind it, I honestly am not very worried about the strength of it. I'm not planning to have a tube at all. Time will tell.

The following post might make you think twice about that:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/215384-cracked-frame-repair-advice.html

Personally, I'm taking any steps I can now to avoid this sort of thing. I think if you plan on really using your rig, not reinforcing the area where you cut a huge chunk of the crossmember out is asking for trouble. As has been discussed in many other posts, even with a stout bumper welded to the frame horns, the crossmember still is more than a perch for the radiator - it sees significant flex / stress.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So it seems that we have some people who can use Kurt's tube without grinding the gearbox, and others who can't. Perhaps all Saginaw gearboxes aren't the same?

Doh, I thought it was your flange that wasn't clearing...

Yes, there are some Saginaw boxes that have additional casting on the nose, also there are some spanner nuts on the input of the boxes that won't fit in the tubes either. Both should be easily resolved. We source only new (rebuilt) boxes for our in house power steering conversions and I'm yet to run across one with the wrong casting or the wrong spanner nut. However j-yard boxes are up in the air.

Kurt, what's the I.D. of your tube? I can tell you right away if it will work for me without modifying my gearbox or not.

3"