Why does TLCA exist?

[woooody]

I posted this on BODREPS, but I would like to open the discussion to Mud users as well.

In all seriousness -- Why does TLCA exist?

We keep seeing comments about "what does TLCA do for me" or "what can I do for TLCA"... I think we need to revisit why the Association of Land Cruiser specific Clubs (TLCA) was created.

Background -- in 1994 I was working at New United Motors (NUMMI) in Fremont, Ca. A couple of the guys that I worked with hand Land Cruisers, and were looking for information of modifying them. I did a "quick" search (quick being a relative term then), and ran across the Land Cruiser Mailing List (LCML). I wound up subscribing, bought my current FJ40 in 1997, and joined TLCA so that I could run the Rubicon trail at this event called "Rubithon". I didn't join TLCA because I needed to be in a club, but rather, it was a requirement of the event.

For those that read Tony's articles a few years back on the History of TLCA, you know how things have evolved over the years. The reasons for creating the club may not be valid reasons 30 years later. As has been mentioned in other threads, we have other sources of information (mud, pirate) and other means of communicating that simply didn't exist 30 years ago.

For better or worse, our budget and focus has become Trails the magazine, and not so much of the communication and camaraderie that was needed decades ago.

Is there still a need for event insurance by local clubs? If the answer is yes, then we need to push that as one of the benefits.

Is a TLCA specific website a need or benefit to our membership? It can be, but it will take content. And we will need to give our membership, and even non-membership, a reason to visit there. One of the great things about the LCML, or even Mud is that you don't have to be a member to utilize the resources, or contribute to the knowledge base. I fear that by making our website "member only" we will not build the knowledge base fast enough.

In my opinion, we need to provide more to the members than just event insurance, or just Trails. We need to provide that intangible that makes people want to belong.

Currently, even though we offer membership to any Toyota with a low range transfer case, we are still perceived as a Land Cruiser club. We attempted to welcome into the fold the new FJ Cruiser, but I don't think the owner base of FJ Cruisers meshes well with this type of club. As many know, I do own an 07 FJ Cruiser, and have participated in activities on the "blue forum" (fjcruiserforums.com) and can honestly say that the majority of FJC forum people are more interested in add on bling than they are in actually wheeling together. Obviously, there is a small group that like to participate in events, but the FJC didn't raise our membership level quite as high as was originally hoped.

Tacoma owners are another breed, and the mini truck/truggy/buggy group are yet another still. Heck, even within the Land Cruiser community there is a divide between 40s and wagons.

Our goal should either be to provide something to each of these groups, or actually determine what our existing members want/need.

I think in many ways we "stumbled" upon success, but since we didn't have a master plan in front of us, we didn't know how to continue with the success.

I loved our glossy custom bound Trails. I'm still OK with our existing Trails. I don't want to see it go away. I think we should be about more than just Trails, a sticker and a dash plaque.

So, I ask you all, why should TLCA continue to exist? If one of our benefits is event insurance, let's make it even better. I would like to see TLCA take an active role in contacting companies for event donations for all of the events. I think at one point that was done by the MSVP, but I could certainly see that go to another BOD as well. Have that person work with the "big" guys (ARB, Engel, Warn, Marlin, Metal Tech, etc) and see if we can package up 5 or 6 raffle prizes for each event. Tier it so that there must be 50 or 60 or 100 registered rigs to receive the raffle prize.

Each event could still get donations on their own, as well as donations from local mfgs.

Another reason that TLCA should exist is the Club magazine. But, I think we need to have a realistic budget that takes into account the fixed costs (printing), the variable costs (mailing), and the revenue (advertising). I don't think we should ever exceed 50% of our total budget for the magazine.

The other primary reason for TLCA to exist is the knowledge base that we should have available to our members. This has been tried at least once before (birfield.com). We need to make sure that it is easy for people to get in, be there members or not. If a non-member can't get in, or can't contribute, then they won't be able to "know" what the benefit is. If they don't know, then why would they join when they have easier resources (mud).

I want to see TLCA continue, purely for selfish reasons. I love participating in Land Cruiser specific events. I've done Rubithon for 12 years now, attended my 2nd Cruise Moab, have been to McGrew once, and been on several Pacific Mountain Cruiser runs. But I've also been to Surf-n-Turf, which is NOT a TLCA event, yet is attended by numerous TLCA members. The reality is that people will still get together, we just need to make them want to include TLCA as part of it.

Enough rambling. I'd love to hear comments.

Ross Woody
TLCA #7704

 

[cruzila]

Is there still a need for event insurance by local clubs? If the answer is yes, then we need to push that as one of the benefits.

Ross, the event insurance is a great deal. One of the better reasons for TLCA to exist for local chapters.

So, I ask you all, why should TLCA continue to exist? If one of our benefits is event insurance, let's make it even better. I would like to see TLCA take an active role in contacting companies for event donations for all of the events. I think at one point that was done by the MSVP, but I could certainly see that go to another BOD as well. Have that person work with the "big" guys (ARB, Engel, Warn, Marlin, Metal Tech, etc) and see if we can package up 5 or 6 raffle prizes for each event. Tier it so that there must be 50 or 60 or 100 registered rigs to receive the raffle prize.

Each event could still get donations on their own, as well as donations from local mfgs.

Ross Woody
TLCA #7704

Also Ross, we started this when I was on the BOD back in 95-96? It was discussed that with so many events, it seemed more likely to have a single point of contact for vendors. That way every cruiser dude doing a raffle would not call Warn or ?? and ask for a winch. TLCA would line up several winches etc. and distribute. I did not know that was not happening anymore?

Scott

 

[ginericLC]

I wasn't an officer on the TLCA BOD when the raffle duties died but I know why they died. As more and more events started coming to TLCA for insurance it became too much for TLCA to also provide raffle assistance. When there are 12 events wanting their share of the TLCA raffle pot there were bound to be some hurt feelings, when there were only major events it wasn't as tough. And in reality there were some hurt feelings over raffle prizes. I remember one meeting where an event was demanding that TLCA pay them back for a winch they purchased for a raffle because another event got a winch. Another thing that some of the bigger companies do is that they give regionally. So one regional TLCA event might be able to score something like a winch or a lift kit on their own whereas TLCA couldn't get that for all of the events. It just became too much of a process. The other thing that happened that has dramatically changed getting things for raffles was the whole sport of rock crawling being developed. Now not only are clubs asking for handouts for their big events but there are teams begging for freebies for advertising.

I think TLCA is a community of Land Cruiser owners. And as I was describing to someone else today it almost becomes a lifestyle. For some this lifestyle can be a positive experience or change in their life, for others it can become a negative experience. Some people are dedicated to the lifestyle while others only dabble in it briefly. I think when TLCA was formed it was almost like a brotherhood of people who chose to take the path less taken (owning a Toyota instead of a domestic). It wasn't easy owning a Toyota in the early years. It was more work because you couldn't just run down to your local autoparts store and get Land Cruiser parts. I think a sense of camaraderie developed as these owners banded together. Somehow I think there is still a bond and a sense of belonging. And the bond crosses borders, racial groups, religions, and politics. Now that Toyotas have become more popular there isn't such a sense of belonging to something special anymore. Anyone can go buy a Toyota and go to a catalog, the internet, or a local parts place and get parts. There isn't the struggle that binds the association anymore. I do believe that there are folks out there like me that would pay to belong to an association which they never receive a single material benefit from just because it is something they feel inside. This definitely wouldn't be the majority though.

Events are one the major advantages to being a member. I've been sort of critical of the TLCA BOD for not being more protective of insuring that participants are in fact members. I know I've attended TLCA events where people participated officially but were not members. I understand that nobody wants to be an enforcer but if this is to be an advantage of being a member shouldn't it be exclusive to members? I know there are so many different types of events so different rules apply to each one, but I think if an event is going to use TLCA insurance it should be for members. Percentage wise very few members attend an event yearly.

TT is undoubtedly an advantage to being a member. It is an advantage that all members receive. It is the only thing some members receive from their membership. I think it is a great publication. Even 10 years ago it was a premier source of information on repairs and sources for parts. I think the internet has changed how a lot of people perceive the usefulness of TT. Can you get a quick answer in less than 10 minutes? Will you see event coverage the day after the event? Are there exclusive deals on parts that can only be found in TT? None of these things are true anymore. It does provide non-computer reading material and the articles are usually thoroughly researched and have a variety of themes and great photos.

The TLCA BOD screwed the pooch on the website. And I'm definitely not saying I could have done better, nobody had a clear vision of where the internet was going to take Land Cruiser Owners. Like anything, the internet has risk involved for the return. TLCA didn't invest in the website until it was too late. And when it did, they threw crazy money at it that was pissed away in the wind because other sites had already become too dominant. Pirate and Ih8mud became the Cruiser sites to be on. I really doubt that will change much no matter what TLCA does with their site. Mud is the dominant LC site in the US and probably even the world it would be impossible to compete with it. There isn't much about Land Cruisers that you can't do on Mud whether it be tech, chit chat, event coverage, posting photos, etc... TLCA needs a non-glitzy functional site with a working stable storefront for merchandise. I think adding forums is a waste of time and money at this point. Making it more glitzy won't help it as it doesn't increase the content. Content is what brings people back to a forum or website. And there is no way TLCA could do anything to knock Mud off as the best LC website for content. It is just too massive. Anything TLCA does with the website to compete with Mud is a waste of time, effort, and money.

 

[woody]

TLCA is probably coming close to issuing member #20,000, if it hasn't been already....I spotted member #19662 on the 'MUD Member List...according to the March/April issues of Trails, there are 3555 current members...that's 16107 members 'lost' since the early 90's (I joined in 1992, member #1548).

BTW: I find it VERY impersonal that my membership on the TLCA website is nothing more than my member number....

I joined after buying my FJ40 in 1989 and having zero resources available...living in the sticks of N. Wisconsin left me pretty helpless with mechanical stuff, and I mailed in my application in response to an ad in the back of a magazine. At that time, Trails WAS the source for technical info.

In 1993, I joined the OffRoad Mailing List (ORML) and began my life as an internet junkie (my first online-organized trail ride was in the fall of 1994)....Gary Bjork created the Land Cruiser Mailing List a few years later, and the era of online tech exchange was born for Cruiserheads.

Ross, I've read your post 10 times at least...and have yet to come up with a solid reason for maintaining my membership. Eric kinda hits it tho...it IS a lifestyle. I don't live on a 'coast' where Cruisers are common...a running FJanything in this part of the country is rare, since most have rusted away. I tried a club in this area, and by the time enough members came together to get organized, some were driving 3 hours each way. It wasn't worth the effort, especially when I had other local non-denominational clubs to wheel with.

If there is one thing I would change, it's the Trails policy of not duplicating online content. There are amazing build project started on 'MUD, Pirate, YotaTech and others almost every day, yet because I only peruse a few corners of each site, I miss many of them. I've had forum members PM me with links to their builds, asking what I thot, only to discover it had 10 pages of replies and I hadn't read it once. Unfortunately, saving your build for 'print only' means you need to know all your answers up front....getting the instant feedback from the online communities is important for many folks, since those ideas and encouragements are what keep their projects going. I must say, I enjoy the manila-paper photocopied Trails from the 90's as much as what's printed today...for me, the content makes the publication, not the color and quality paper.

 

[trainrech]

I agree with Eric on the TLCA website. Our club is in the same position with trying to compete with the club's discussions on mud. We've reached the point that there is a minimal amount of information available as to officers, membership, events, etc., but most of the postings (it is in blog format) have a link taking you back to the mud thread. My personal thought is to capture attention, not be the universal all being of websites.

Chris
Tornado Alley Cruisers Pres.

 

[MaddBaggins]

When I bought my Cruiser in 94, TLCA was the first group I found and promptly joined. Fast forward, I've attended 2 events, 2006 Glitter Gulch Gambol and 2007 Cruise Moab. GGG was my kind of gathering, small and intimate. Cruise Moab was too large and crazy for me, I probably won't attend that again. So it's come to a point for me where the only benefit I get from TLCA is the magazine.
None of the vendors I have used have ever given me a discount for being a TLCA member, so that is a non-benefit. Large events aren't my cup of tea=non-benefit. My local club has no desire to ever be a chapter of the TLCA so, non-benefit and therefore event insurance is a non-benefit. It's been a couple years since I've even peaked at the TLCA website, non-benefit.

The magazine is it for me now. MUD is where I get my info and Trails is where I like to read stories. I'm sure I will continue to be a member for years to come, but you never know.


Kowboy should be along shortly to tell everyone how to spell PARTICIPATION.

 

[KOWBOY]

No more lectures from me about TLCA ... I have o'ficially given up.

However ... I will resubmit ONE question that never got answered:

Has anybody ever actually tried to make a claim involving a wheelin' incident with the event insurance that TLCA provides? Not at a rally or swap meet, a REAL wheelin' incident?? Considerin' the nature of the policy, I've always doubted if it would hold up ... thus eliminatin' yet another "benefit" of TLCA.

I'm still a member and prob'ly always will be ... just ain't gotta clue why.

 

[wngrog]

Most of the events I attend are at Private Parks and we have gone to collecting money for the dinner and the raffle and let the park owners collect the fees to wheel.

If that is the case, there is no need for event insurance from TLCA.

Woody, I understand what you are saying about on-line content. I am sure if it is unique Todd would gladly publish it. He is an amazing editor and you can not imagine the grief he catches after every magazine from all of the crazies. If he posts a story about an FJ, the 4O guys rib him, if he posts a story from me, he catches crap about only publishing his friends stuff. His job sucks but he does it with dignity and professionalism.

In my opinion, Toyota Trails is what 90% of us are paying TLCA dues for.

If TLCA continues to decline to where they cannot foot the bill for Trails then the club will be gone in a matter of months.

How much are we paying the administrator again?

 

[Green Lantern]

I just want to add my voice to y'all that have posted already.
TLCA is a hobby club. That's all it's ever been, that's all it will ever be.

Toyota Trails is the only benefit to membership. 3000 of our 3400 members validate that statement.
We belong because we want to belong. Folks that change their mind, leave to go on to other things.

Maybe we'll see each other on the road. I'll be in Sparrow, with a canoe, and two very happy dogs.
Happy Trails! N

 

[Trollhole]

If Woody provided event insurance to his paying members and sent an e-mail once a month to his membership with a list to highlight some post on mud along with a calendar of upcoming events. IMO TLCA membership would fall off the face of the earth.

Maybe TLCA ought to look into forming some sort of union with Woody and have him collect money for membership (a TLCA star on MUD), sell merchandise, provide event insurance to the clubs, and handle all the communication side (website). That way TLCA could do away with the admin and TT and focus on nothing but providing a voluntary role in managing events. Woody could add about $5 dollars to the current silver star donation and probably double the amount of money TLCA has spent on events in the past and hopefully in more than one place. Instead of the silver star it could be called the TLCA donation or something.

Doing so you get rid of about 90% of the TLCA budget and I get to spend half what I normally have to pay for MUD and TLCA combined.

Only problem I see is the end of TT. Which currently might happen anyway. You go from being a non profit to being a for profit. Honestly I have no problem in paying someone to manage a club that provides a service. That or you get Woody to donate the increase in a star back to TLCA and spend that money on the insurance and events only. That way TLCA still is a non profit. Not sure on the legalities of that. By doing so you get rid of the biggest issue surrounding TLCA (money) while still providing a future for TLCA for years to come.


Just ideas I have floating around in my head. Take them with a grain of salt.

 

[65swb45]

Jeff and Art directed me to this thread earlier today. Thanks guys!

This is surely a question I've asked myself many times since I started wheeling with TLCA back in '86. It's obviously a very different organization than the one I joined. When I joined, my reasons were pretty typical, as I"ve noted of other 'newbs' in the BODreps forum:
1. Learning about places to go wheeling
2. Finding like-minded people to go wheeling with
3. The opportunity to learn trail navigation from those with more experience
4. The opportunity to learn more about working on their trucks from those with more experience.

Once I opened my shop, my perception changed, as I became more and more aware of the 'politics' of TLCA. Eventually I had to walk away. But obviously, I came back. So why did I come back? That is my answer to this thread!

TLCA to me has always been a really cool concept, flawed in it's execution. Kind of like religion: great premises, executed by humans, destined to be faulty. The sense of community that I hoped would flourish has done so, it just so happens that the best manifestation of it so far has been on MUD. I still have hope that TLCA can achieve this sense of community, and I do my part to keep up the hope and the dream. When I chat with you or Nick or Jeff or Butch or Tony or Georg or Ryan or Chris or Dan, I don't think of y'all as my MUD friends or my Pirate friends; I think of you as my TLCA friends! And my sense is that every one of you also shares this dream of what TLCA could be. That's why we'll be the ones still here when TT is gone. Not for the magazine, not for the insurance, not even for the events [though they're a convenient excuse for getting together]

My .02 on the MUD/TLCA relationship. The clubhouse forum is an enormous asset to TLCA, and IMO, unless TLCA.org can move the clubhouse to it's website, it will not achieve it's intended goals. Everyone keeps beating around the bush, avoiding the ultimate questions: will the BOD just go on dragging it's feet forever about asking Woody if TLCA can have the clubhouse forums moved over, and is Woody willing to let it go?

Soooo, since nobody else is asking, I am.

 

[wngrog]

Soooo, since nobody else is asking, I am.

I hate to say it, but Woody would be a fool to do that and Woody is no fool.

I think TLCA.ORG should be asking to come to Mud, not the other way around. It is hard to negotiate from a position of weakness. Woody holds all the cards.

 

[woody]

My .02 on the MUD/TLCA relationship. The clubhouse forum is an enormous asset to TLCA, and IMO, unless TLCA.org can move the clubhouse to it's website, it will not achieve it's intended goals. Everyone keeps beating around the bush, avoiding the ultimate questions: will the BOD just go on dragging it's feet forever about asking Woody if TLCA can have the clubhouse forums moved over, and is Woody willing to let it go?

I think the answer to that is obvious....how many Clubhouses are even TLCA clubs?

I don't remember the number of times I've offered the various webmasters of TLCA access to the style sheets for this portion of the forum, allowing the look and feel of here to be adapted and integrated further with the TLCA content.

Of course, one of the things that the 'MUD members appreciate is the consistency of the site navigation and look...TLCA has changed webmasters a few times, and the design changes with every one of them. That's very frustrating from a user standpoint. The TLCA portion of the site USED to be consistent with the colors and layout of the TLCA page. The ads served in the TLCA and Clubhouse sections belong to TLCA, and 100% of any $ generated goes to TLCA. I know I research my ad layouts and settings daily, and the time spent has helped a great deal.

I was a bit surprised when TLCA took on their current 'blog' content setup and didn't bother to inquire about integrating even the existing user table from 'MUD...sadly, that explains why my 'profile' on TLCA is nothing more personal than my member number. I've been told a few times by various individuals that TLCA had no interest in a forum and competing...no surprise that is no longer true. (the Blogs failed miserably on 'MUD, no surprise)

--------

I've got a LONG list of things coming for 'MUD. vBulletin is a VERY popular software, and their latest version is close to being released. Of the thousands and thousands of forums that use vBulletin, a very small group has been selected to participate in their private Alpha release phase. IH8MUD has been chosen, and I hope to begin some intensive work on that in late July.

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so....what ARE the intended goals of TLCA?

 

[Green Lantern]

FWIW...

Mark has a clear understanding of Cruiserhead camaraderie. Unfortunately, like so many others he also places way too much significance on TLCA as a club. IH8MUD is successful because Woody offers consistent access and a dam fine attitude toward everyone. TLCA shoots itself in the foot by offering "exclusive" content and implying only certain people are welcome.

TLCA is a great magazine subscription. The website has the potential to promote the magazine and sell merchandise. TLCA.org might overshadow Pirate4x4.com simply because Pirate has a rotten attitude toward newbies. There is no way that TLCA.org will supplant IH8MUD.com. I work hard to protect and promote MUD because it accurately reflects my love for land cruisers.

BTW, I still support TLCA and Toyota Trails.
Happy Trails! N

 

[Michael Hanson]

I joined TLCA years ago for the tech. information it provided and still does.I dont think I ever expected it to be any more.I enjoy going to our Lone Star meetings and seeing the guys and gals and their cruisers,ive even owned a few cruisers my self over the years and the magazine has helped alot with articals,contacts and venders.I would like to see the TLCA get more involved in more charity events,natural disaster help and working with the goverment agencies on keeping trails open. 2 cents Mike

 

[woooody]

FWIW...

Mark has a clear understanding of Cruiserhead camaraderie. Unfortunately, like so many others he also places way too much significance on TLCA as a club. IH8MUD is successful because Woody offers consistent access and a dam fine attitude toward everyone. TLCA shoots itself in the foot by offering "exclusive" content and implying only certain people are welcome.

TLCA is a great magazine subscription. The website has the potential to promote the magazine and sell merchandise. TLCA.org might overshadow Pirate4x4.com simply because Pirate has a rotten attitude toward newbies. There is no way that TLCA.org will supplant IH8MUD.com. I work hard to protect and promote MUD because it accurately reflects my love for land cruisers.

BTW, I still support TLCA and Toyota Trails.
Happy Trails! N

In doing the May Minutes the other day, I think I have a better understanding on some of your frustrations Nick. I share them. It kills me that we have the ability to print 1500 more copies of Trails, but are afraid that we will "dilute the value" if we print them and use them as a recruiting tool.

There is still some passion in our current BOD and delegates, and it would be nice to harness and encourage, rather than constantly shooting them down.

Mud is a fascinating entity, and it is where LCML/Birfield/TLCA.org SHOULD have gone, but didn't. In looking back on why TLCA existed, that "resource" aspect now IS ih8mud.com. And short of Woody kicking the bucket, or losing total interest, there is no reason it won't be that way for years to come.

If our TLCA membership is going to hover at the 3000 level, then we just need to deal with that reality, and determine what we can and can't do with regards to our expenses. We may need to look into alternatives to how we process/deal with membership, what Toyota Trails can be, and what TLCA can do for our current clubs/events.

If our membership levels for 2006/2007 were an anomoly, then let's adjust accordingly. If we feel that we can recover the expired members, then let's look at that.

Maybe TLCA needs to do more for our existing events than just provide insurance and an ad in Trails?

 

[Michael Hanson]

Why dont you ask your membership in the next issue what the like and dislike? 2 cents Mike

 

[Gumby]

It is very unlikely that Windy City will ever again be a TLCA club. There is simply nothing TLCA offers the club that our members want and a number of the most active members will not join because of things like the 30% rule, 30 year old tech inspection rules, and the politics.

Many of our members are members of TLCA, but not all. We would be the worst kind of exclusionary elitists if we told them they had to join an organization they didn't agree with if they wanted to hang out with us.

WCLC isn't much of a club by some standards, but we enjoy each others company and we get some damn fine wheeling trips and wrenching time together. That seems to be good enough for most of us.

I don't know if it's applicable or helpful, but I'll throw it out there.'Mud has never pushed membership on people. Woody gives it away for free and has thousands of members. The Blackhawks had some of the worst attendance in the NHL when the past owner insisted on pay per view. The new owner put them back on free TV and they had the NHLs best attendance this year. People will pay for a good product, but they have to know it's a good product first. TLCA needs to improve the product and make sure people know about it.

just my probably unwelcome .02. I guess you can't address concerns if nobody says anything.

I've been struggling with my personal membership renewal. I should renew, but I can't get up the motivation to send the check.

 

[Green Lantern]

Well said Woooody and Gumby!!

Folks who love Toyota 4x4's are INDEPENDENT, ECCENTRIC, and PRAGMATIC. We don't need politics, sales pitches, or "blue sky" visions.

TLCA needs to focus on helping chapters. It's the chapters that attract and keep members. It's the chapters that put on events. It's the chapters that contribute time & money to charities.

Y'all keep on being who you are. We may be a continent apart, but I'm always happy to help you. As we (and the trucks) get older, we need to keep in touch to find parts too!
Happy Trails! N

In doing the May Minutes the other day, I think I have a better understanding on some of your frustrations Nick. I share them. It kills me that we have the ability to print 1500 more copies of Trails, but are afraid that we will "dilute the value" if we print them and use them as a recruiting tool.

There is still some passion in our current BOD and delegates, and it would be nice to harness and encourage, rather than constantly shooting them down.


... We may need to look into alternatives to how we process/deal with membership, what Toyota Trails can be, and what TLCA can do for our current clubs/events.

... Maybe TLCA needs to do more for our existing events than just provide insurance and an ad in Trails?

Many of our members are members of TLCA, but not all. We would be the worst kind of exclusionary elitists if we told them they had to join an organization they didn't agree with if they wanted to hang out with us.

WCLC isn't much of a club by some standards, but we enjoy each others company and we get some damn fine wheeling trips and wrenching time together. That seems to be good enough for most of us.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Maybe TLCA ought to look into forming some sort of union with Woody and have him collect money for membership (a TLCA star on MUD), sell merchandise, provide event insurance to the clubs, and handle all the communication side (website).....

Doing so you get rid of about 90% of the TLCA budget and I get to spend half what I normally have to pay for MUD and TLCA combined.

My .02 on the MUD/TLCA relationship. The clubhouse forum is an enormous asset to TLCA, and IMO, unless TLCA.org can move the clubhouse to it's website, it will not achieve it's intended goals. Everyone keeps beating around the bush, avoiding the ultimate questions: will the BOD just go on dragging it's feet forever about asking Woody if TLCA can have the clubhouse forums moved over, and is Woody willing to let it go?

I think TLCA.ORG should be asking to come to Mud, not the other way around. It is hard to negotiate from a position of weakness. Woody holds all the cards.

so....what ARE the intended goals of TLCA?

Maybe TLCA needs to do more for our existing events than just provide insurance and an ad in Trails?

Folks who love Toyota 4x4's are INDEPENDENT, ECCENTRIC, and PRAGMATIC. We don't need politics, sales pitches, or "blue sky" visions.

When I joined Mud back in 05, I had practically no mechanical knowledge and an old rusty FJ60 that I wanted to get back on the road. I remember googling "Toyota Land Cruiser" and Mud was one of the first search results as was TLCA, but TLCA didn't provide what I needed, which was tech knowledge. Therefore I went to Mud and read everything I could find to learn more and more about our trucks. Without Mud, I certainly wouldn't be a member of TLCA, or possibly even a LC enthusiast. I was never a member of the LCML or ORML, or the 3FE boards or anything. I joined TLCA because it was the way for me to get Toyota Trails, and that's about it. I stopped my Car & Driver subscription for that magazine, and that's how I saw it, a magazine subscription.

What services does TLCA provide us that Woody doesn't with IH8MUD?
What does the TLCA provide Woody with for his advertisement revenue and clubhouse forum?

I agree with what has been said before. TLCA should condense their website and make it a mission statement, also stating that the home for Land Cruisers is IH8MUD.com. They should keep TT the way it is, but also include stories taken from posts on the forum. To generate stories, go to all the ROTW / ROTM threads and find users who are willing to do write ups about their trucks, providing tips and tricks for similar truck owners. Go to the clubhouses and have presidents write up more stories for events they put on. Integrate the TLCA fee into the Silver Star fee ( amazing idea ) so everyone only has to do one transaction, one place to become a member of all things Cruiser.

It seems that TLCA hasn't scaled up with the size of it's "customer" base. One of the ideas I had while reading this thread was for the TLCA to provide discounts for it's members to vendors that support IH8MUD instead of finding raffle items for clubs. Maybe give each club an allowance to put on one TLCA sanctioned event a season, like Coal Miner Cruiser Classic or Fall Gathering, or any other event. Those allowances could possibly be used by a club to purchase a big ticket item that they can raffle off with tickets purchased for a couple of bucks a piece.

How do we become more involved with TLCA?
How do we help the TLCA grow?

There are plenty of things we can do to help our local clubs and that's so because it's much easier to contact them because they're typically closer to home. My biggest concern, as many of the people here it seems, is as follows:

What can the TLCA do for me that IH8MUD does not?