Why does TLCA exist? (1 Viewer)

[wngrog]

Just got my Toyota Trails. Todd does a fantastic job. Maybe we should look into making sure he gets paid well and the magazine gets fully funded and scale back on some of the other paid positions. I have always considered is crazy that this club has salaried positions other than magazine editor.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

When I think back why I joined the TLCA, it was do the Rubicon with the TLCA at Rubithon. My reason for remaining a member is still basically the same-to go to Rubithon where membership is a requirement.

So maybe that's the secret for the TLCA. Put on EVENTS that the membership will want to attend. Then cover the events in trails. Use the TLCA website to push the events. Then people would have a tangible reason to join the TLCA. The events might even generate net income that the TLCA could use for other purposes-like keeping dues at some trivial low level to encourage membership. I could even see a TLCA line up with events spaced throughout the calender and people trying to attend them all. People want to get together, camp and chat about Land Cruisers, even if there isn't that much "wheeling". Just look at the success of Surf and Turf.

Unfortunately there isn't much else left for the TLCA. The true tech resource has been taken over by IH8MUD, and the travel and events coverage is being eclipsed by Toyota 4WD Owner, and to some degree, Overland Journal. Some of the best Land Cruiser travel coverage anywhere, is right here on IH8MUD when forum members write up their adventures complete with high quality photos.

As things stand now in the internet age, a magazine, no matter how well done, is just not unique enough to keep the organization alive. I like reading Trails, but there is 10000 times the content on IH8MUD, all completely searchable without thumbing through 10 years worth of magazines. I have found the TLCA wedsite to be semi-unfriendly, and never go there.

Or else sell the TLCA to Woody and let him run with it.

 

[Bodean]

Or else sell the TLCA to Woody and let him run with it.[/QUOTE]

Now there's an idea!

Later,

 

[Deny]

Integrate the TLCA fee into the Silver Star fee ( amazing idea ) so everyone only has to do one transaction, one place to become a member of all things Cruiser.

I like this, and was going to post this idea just now because I recently got an email from woody saying my star was about to expire. We all spend so much time on mud, it would be so much easier to pay for both the star and TLCA at the same time, less thinking for busy people. I assume a lot of the lapsed TLCA members just forget and just never bother to get around to renewing.
Cheers,
Deny

 

[SaharaCruiserhead]

We, the German LandCruiser-Club have thought about participating the TLCA. But we decided to dont do it, because of the bylaws and the costs. It would be nice to be in the TLCA, but there was no benefit for our club.
Here in Germany we have the same discussion and the same answers.
to be in a Club ist a thing of how you think.
Cameraderie is the great effort and the reason for joinig a club.
the german LandCruiser-Club is a notionwied Club and we have no chapters, so it held the membership fees down and let the cost also down. negativ is, that only a few people do the work. Somtimes it is har, becaus you ar fighting against Windmills. Tho Internetcommunitys are a strong competitor, but when we hav our own activitis, we are all proud, what we can do and what is possible for 20 Euros a Year.
Only my 2 cents
Tom

 

[cruiser88]

I would be lost without mud and furthermore I think it would be sucide for the TLCA to be not a part of mud.

My father was a member of the TLCA back in the day and I will continue. To me being a member is a status,as to my late father.

 

[Rzeppa]

When I think back why I joined the TLCA, it was do the Rubicon with the TLCA at Rubithon. My reason for remaining a member is still basically the same-to go to Rubithon where membership is a requirement.

So maybe that's the secret for the TLCA.

Hi Drew, thanks for being a TLCA member!

Put on EVENTS that the membership will want to attend.

We don't have events that people want to attend? If so, then what events should we do that we aren't already?

Then cover the events in trails.

Which issue of Toyota Trails hasn't been covering events?

Use the TLCA website to push the events.

We don't have enough event coverage on the web site?

Then people would have a tangible reason to join the TLCA.

People join TLCA for a lot of tangible reasons other than events.

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA membership are not members of chapters?

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA members do not participate in events, and most of those never will?

Did you know that some people join TLCA for their discount on parts from their participating Toyota Dealers?

Did you know that a large fraction of TLCA members join because they really like Toyota Trails, but will never wheel their Toyota 4x4?

In the big picture, events are very important, but they are not the most important thing for the majority of TLCA members. Can we change that? Of course.

The events might even generate net income that the TLCA could use for other purposes-like keeping dues at some trivial low level to encourage membership.

In the real world, event income for TLCA has historically a very small fraction of TLCA revenue. Let us use Cruise Moab as an example. I have been on the committee for many years, and we are hugely successful from both a participant experience standpoint (most important in my view) and from a revenue standpoint. Cruise Moab typically has around a $30k budget each year. Out of that, we might clear $5-10k. TLCA gets 10%. That's $500-$1000 to TLCA. The rest gets donated to land use, and some is reinvested in the next year's event.

Best case, TLCA might have 6-10 events per year. Most events aren't as finacially successful as Cruise Moab, but let's play with numbers. If we had 10 events that netted $1000 to TLCA, that's $10,000 out of $250,000 budget. Nothing to sneeze at, but still only a small fraction of our revenue.

That's the math.

I could even see a TLCA line up with events spaced throughout the calender and people trying to attend them all. People want to get together, camp and chat about Land Cruisers, even if there isn't that much "wheeling". Just look at the success of Surf and Turf.

Jim's done a hell of a job, and has always been a huge TLCA supporter. But look above and do the math.

Unfortunately there isn't much else left for the TLCA.

I can not disagree with you more on this point.

The true tech resource has been taken over by IH8MUD

One can have tech questions answered by web wheelers and armchair amateurs with no screening or professional qualifications, or they can ask the pros at TLCA. On the free web, you might get the right answer, or you might get a completely wrong answer.

and the travel and events coverage is being eclipsed by Toyota 4WD Owner

T4WDO is for a different demographic. The Peterson's type kiddie crowd. You want a bunch of fluff and hype, if that's your cup of tea, have at it. TLCA has always been for a more savvy audience.

and to some degree, Overland Journal.

No doubt, OJ is a nice non-Toyota specific magazine, and appeals to yet another segment of our demographic.

Some of the best Land Cruiser travel coverage anywhere, is right here on IH8MUD when forum members write up their adventures complete with high quality photos.

No doubt, Woody has created a nice community here and he has always been a huge TLCA supporter. At TLCA, we are not interested in competing, but we exist side by side with IH8mud and help each other out. Drew, I don't know if you were a Land Cruiser enthusiast and online back in the 1990s when when Woody was a frequent contributor to the Land Cruiser Mailing List and forums didn't exist yet. That was the internet age, and the archives were easily searchable...

As things stand now in the internet age, a magazine, no matter how well done, is just not unique enough to keep the organization alive.

As I mentioned above, we have a diverse membership in TLCA. The majority of TLCA members agree that our dead-tree publication, Toyota Trails, is enough to keep them. For those that don't, we have been offering member's-only content online, as well as the entire publication online.

I like reading Trails, but there is 10000 times the content on IH8MUD, all completely searchable without thumbing through 10 years worth of magazines. I have found the TLCA wedsite to be semi-unfriendly, and never go there.

Web sites are quite dynamic. When was the last time you went there? You might find a lot of changes we have implemented over the last couple months.

Thanks for being a TLCA member, and happy cruisin!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Jeff, it's my understanding that most events are put on by chapters, not the TLCA. If 18000 people have joined the TLCA and 3000 remain, something is wrong. I like the idea of the TLCA and anticipate being a member for as long as I own Land Cruisers, but I can see where others say they get little out of it. Trails is a great mag, but unfortunately it only gets mailed to 3000 members.

You asked what events--The TLCA will have to be entrpeneurial here and establish a new TLCA event or two or three. How about one in Colorado? Nevada? Texas? Canada? I hear some TLCA guys live each of those places. Rubithon can be the model, but you need something special that others want to attend from a long way away. Moab is a great event, and another model of how to run an event, but it's a chapter event, not a TLCA event, and in fact could run just fine if the TLCA did not exist. The whole point about events, is that participation is valuable and will drive interest which will drive membership. The Jeep Jamboree can put on an event and have 1500 people show up. Easter Jeep Safari has 10,000 people show up. This increases the appeal/pride/desire to belong to a Jeep organization even for those who would never venture with their Jeep off the pavement. I don't know if that's a good parallel or not, but it's worth thinking about.

I think WE somehow missed a golden opportunity in the form of the FJCruiser craze of the last few years. It's my feeling that a lot of those guys joined and then dropped when the initial enthusiasm wore off, or they didn't feel welcome in the old guard Cruiser network or what ever. I look at Rubithon as a marker. There were dozens of FJCruisers the last few years and this year I saw 2. Not that I have any solutions here, but it would have been nice to include the FJC guys in the "culture". Kind of like the way that wagons at first were looked at with suspicion by the old guard in FJ40s, and now make up the bulk of trucks seen at events like Cruise Moab.

So it gets back to the question...What is the purpose of the TLCA? Is it to publish a magazine? I hope it's more than that, but when long term supporters are asking the question, it is reasonable to think there may be an issue.

BTW-I was on the Land Cruiser mailing list from roughly 1999-2003. I'm still on the 80s list now, though much of the life has gone out it as well.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

We don't have enough event coverage on the web site?

Under the events menu, you only have one TLCA event listed, the Rubithon, so I say no. Why aren't all TLCA sanctioned events listed?

People join TLCA for a lot of tangible reasons other than events.

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA membership are not members of chapters?

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA members do not participate in events, and most of those never will?

Did you know that some people join TLCA for their discount on parts from their participating Toyota Dealers?

Did you know that a large fraction of TLCA members join because they really like Toyota Trails, but will never wheel their Toyota 4x4?

That's good that most TLCA members are not off roaders. However, if that is true, then why aren't more off roaders TLCA members? There are 40,000 something users on this forum, I'd venture to say 1/2 of which are active Toyota enthusiasts. How can we tap that populous? It seems to me that more off roaders would want to be members to reap the benefits.

In the real world, event income for TLCA has historically a very small fraction of TLCA revenue. Let us use Cruise Moab as an example. I have been on the committee for many years, and we are hugely successful from both a participant experience standpoint (most important in my view) and from a revenue standpoint. Cruise Moab typically has around a $30k budget each year. Out of that, we might clear $5-10k. TLCA gets 10%. That's $500-$1000 to TLCA. The rest gets donated to land use, and some is reinvested in the next year's event.

Best case, TLCA might have 6-10 events per year. Most events aren't as finacially successful as Cruise Moab, but let's play with numbers. If we had 10 events that netted $1000 to TLCA, that's $10,000 out of $250,000 budget. Nothing to sneeze at, but still only a small fraction of our revenue.

That's the math.

3500 ish members X $30 a year = ~$105k income from dues, plus a max of $10k from events. Where does the other 135k come from? Advertising? That's a lot of dough to get from advertising.

One can have tech questions answered by web wheelers and armchair amateurs with no screening or professional qualifications, or they can ask the pros at TLCA. On the free web, you might get the right answer, or you might get a completely wrong answer.

Arguable, but ok. There are a lot of web wheelers out there, but if you listen to the right people and use the FSM, you can learn everything accurately, top to bottom about your rig.

No doubt, Woody has created a nice community here and he has always been a huge TLCA supporter. At TLCA, we are not interested in competing, but we exist side by side with IH8mud and help each other out. Drew, I don't know if you were a Land Cruiser enthusiast and online back in the 1990s when when Woody was a frequent contributor to the Land Cruiser Mailing List and forums didn't exist yet. That was the internet age, and the archives were easily searchable...

I don't think drew meant that TLCA should compete with MUD. If that happened, I believe MUD would win. I mean we're having a discussion about TLCA on MUD because this is a more open venue to have it.

TLCA and MUD should join forces and help each other grow. I'm sure the LMCL was excellent, but for people of my age group ( 18-25 ) we were too young for that and MUD was likely our entrance into the full blown cruiser addiction. I believe that TLCA needs to figure out a way to get people from that demographic to sign up and stay signed up.

The issue of waning membership is not the responsibility of the TLCA administration to fix, it's our responsibility, the TLCA members, to get more people to join. What the TLCA should provide is a venue where members and the administration can get together to come up with a plan of attack. We should have a 2 year recruitment campaign with a set goal of members by the end. That would drum up enthusiasm I think.

 

[Trollhole]

Had another crazy idea pop into my head over the past few weeks. Originally I was going to look into just the SE clubs doing this but it could work for all of TLCA.

How about TLCA take up handling local club membership, finances, media and web (to a certain extent). This would really give the clubs a reason to be part of TLCA. You would have to cut the TT budget though. That or actually start selling it in magazine racks along side the other Toyota magazines. I'd like for us to at least do one trial run of about 10000 magazines and find a distributor who would take them and push them out to the public markets and see what happened. Heck even if you just did it at airports I'd bet you would get some people wanting more. This could raise more money for TT and get it back on track. We are not talking about a ton of money either. Don't know how TT is being printed now (sheet fed or Web) but once the plates are made and the switch is turned on your cost per magazine start going down. To run an extra 5-10k for TT couldn't be more than 1-2k if that. That being said you will have to look at TT as being a magazine and source of income, not the entire lively hood of the organization. People that want TT should understand they are buying a subscription not a membership. TLCA membership can be a whole different charge and something that pays for the back end.

And speaking of back end. Why not use this new back end to provide some assistance to the clubs? Let TLCA handle the legal side of the clubs with the clubs providing their own direction. Get someone who can file the non profit filings for the clubs and get them set up so if something happens they can feel like they have a foot to stand on. Provide a central bank per say for the clubs. Have an accountant be responsible for setting up the bank accounts of the club and responsible for providing new bank cards to the officers. Have one central printer, t-shirt, stickers, and other media outlets. Find someone who is willing to help with design. Imagine all the business we could give one business if we all sent our work to them. Imagine all the money the clubs might save in pooling our resources. Then get TLCA to pay for web hosting that could include all the clubs. That's another fee all the clubs are paying on our own and it could be a lot, I mean a lot, to pool them all under one hosting company and one package. Pay someone or have volunteers to set the sites up. Pretty sure everyone could keep the same format as they have now.

Problem I see currently is TLCA is not bringing the clubs together. A magazine is never gonna do it. The services offered will. If 2700 people are paying for TLCA memberships but are not local club members, nor participate other than reading TT. Then in my eyes they are not a member they are a subscriber.

 

[timbercruiser]

I joined to get the magazine and to associate with other cruiser/toyota 4x4 owners. I fall into the 3/4 that has never been to an event (too far) and has no local cruiser club (too far). But I do wheel!
I'm satisfied with what the association is currently doing for me.

 

[Trollhole]

I joined to get the magazine and to associate with other cruiser/toyota 4x4 owners. I fall into the 3/4 that has never been to an event (too far) and has no local cruiser club (too far). But I do wheel!
I'm satisfied with what the association is currently doing for me.

The fact you are on mud should make you a member not a subscriber. I would think anyone who frequents mud would be put into the TLCA member side.

Hey now there is an idea. Why not have Woody set up a TLCA MUD club. Kind of a vitual club. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any problem finding 6 members that are TLCA members. He could charge a nominal membership fee and use 100% of the money to go towards TLCA MUD events. Heck I bet even some of his vendors would be willing to thow in some stuff to help promote the MUD club.

Plus if said MUD club ran like any other club you could have volunteers plan the events. Also the TLCA Mud club could get covered under the TLCA insurance policy.

 

[Bodean]

You can forget the TLCA ever running the local clubs. I know we would get out of the TLCA if that were on the table.

Later,

 

[Romer]

How about TLCA take up handling local club membership, finances, media and web (to a certain extent). This would really give the clubs a reason to be part of TLCA. .

Not only No, but Hell no.

Imagine having a group of folks managing the money for your events. How responsive would that be to local land use issues, club needs etc. I cant raise a proposal and vote on it at the meeting because I then have to raise it to the TLCA explain it and get their permission.

Each club is unqiue and does things based on what its members want. And this means the Club needs to manage its own money or distrust, anger and resentment would develop towards the TLCA.

I am a paid up TLCA member through 2013 (Hope I live that long), but I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

 

[65swb45]

Not only No, but Hell no.

Imagine having a group of folks managing the money for your events. How responsive would that be to local land use issues, club needs etc. I cant raise a proposal and vote on it at the meeting because I then have to raise it to the TLCA explain it and get their permission.

Each club is unqiue and does things based on what its members want. And this means the Club needs to manage its own money or distrust, anger and resentment would develop towards the TLCA.

I am a paid up TLCA member through 2013 (Hope I live that long), but I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

Everything he said and then some!

1. As a club, even my own club has a hard time sometimes reaching consensus on where we're gonna spend our $$, so there's no way in heck we're gonna hand that control off to anyone else.

2. And like Bodean hinted at, NO ONE in ANY club will be satisfied with the redistribution of wealth from the national level. Just like the 50 states squabbling over every federal entitlement, but more like a knife fight!

I would like to point out tho that this isn't one of the suggestions thats been beat to death for the last five years, so props just for putting something 'fresh' out there to beat on!

[best Bodean face on]

Later!

 

[wngrog]

I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

 

[Trollhole]

Guess I should have explained it better. Wasn't meaning they would manage the money in the accounts just manage the setting up and getting Bank cards out. Clubs could do what ever they wanted with the money and all information would be private.

All they would do is give one or two people the ability to manage the accounts. Think about how many treasurers that have come and gone within the clubs. Not to say that job would ever go away but it would make it a lot easier for them.

Think of it as a concierge service. TLCA provides the ability for clubs to set up private banking, discounted merchandise production, web design and promotion, etc...

Just ideas. Just trying to find more ways TLCA can provide more value to it's members.

 

[Romer]

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

It would be a vote, I dont get to pull anything . . . well not that I will mention here. I was just stating my opinion, but knowing the club and their current attitude is important to effecively leading. I would bet that the majority of the club would agree with me.

The internet is sometimes a poor communication media as leaves the opportunity for others to read something that wasnt the intent of the author.

What I should have said is "At the very next meeting I would open a topic up for discussion related to handing our finanaces over to another organization. As always we would allow all to input there opinions and positions and then make a motion based on the discussion, discuss it some more, tweak it a bit, motion it again and then vote on it. At which time I would expect the motion and vote from the club would be to disaasociate itself from the TLCA if the requirement was to hand over complete control of our finances"

Too me thats equivelant to what I said, but just includes the details.

Guess I should have explained it better. Wasn't meaning they would manage the money in the accounts just manage the setting up and getting Bank cards out. Clubs could do what ever they wanted with the money and all information would be private.

All they would do is give one or two people the ability to manage the accounts. Think about how many treasurers that have come and gone within the clubs. Not to say that job would ever go away but it would make it a lot easier for them.

Think of it as a concierge service. TLCA provides the ability for clubs to set up private banking, discounted merchandise production, web design and promotion, etc...

Just ideas. Just trying to find more ways TLCA can provide more value to it's members.

That would still leave someone not part of the club with acces to the money. TLCA is elected too. Who would do this who doesnt rotate in or out

I dont see how that benifits anyone.

I do appreciate the new and fresh idea, I just quite get it I guess

 

[Bodean]

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

No Shorty! We would vote on it but I know what that outcome would be. You better watch it or we will vote you in as "Commander".

 

[Rzeppa]

Good thread...still reading, not ignoring, just not posting a lot of replies