Your Thoughts on the LC 250? (1 Viewer)

[Jetboy]

If it actually weighs 5,600lbs - that's wild. That would be roughly 1,000 lbs more than a 5th gen 4Runner. I was very careful on my 5th gen to keep weight down. I've seen a few 5th gens weigh over 7k lbs overloaded with overland expo style bloat. Performance suffers a lot at that point on and especially off road. Even with a supercharger the they become an offroad pig. A Toyota Dolphin RV is only about 5500lbs. I know the hybrid has some weight, but it's only about 300lbs IIRC. And it's only 2 row. What happened to the other 700lbs? Need someone to take one to a certified scale and find out.

Also as a side edit, the 6th gen 4Runner spec weight is 4,850 for a TRD OR and 5,500 for a Trail Hunter Model (the heaviest option). Almost 700lbs more weight in the TH is pretty crazy to me. An F150 Raptor is only 5,800.

 

[Rednexus]

If it actually weighs 5,600lbs - that's wild. That would be roughly 1,000 lbs more than a 5th gen 4Runner. I was very careful on my 5th gen to keep weight down. I've seen a few 5th gens weigh over 7k lbs overloaded with overland expo style bloat. Performance suffers a lot at that point on and especially off road. Even with a supercharger the they become an offroad pig. A Toyota Dolphin RV is only about 5500lbs. I know the hybrid has some weight, but it's only about 300lbs IIRC. And it's only 2 row. What happened to the other 700lbs? Need someone to take one to a certified scale and find out.

Also as a side edit, the 6th gen 4Runner spec weight is 4,850 for a TRD OR and 5,500 for a Trail Hunter Model (the heaviest option). Almost 700lbs more weight in the TH is pretty crazy to me. An F150 Raptor is only 5,800.

What's crazy is that with a 5,500-5,700# curb weight, these rigs would very easily be rolling at 7,000# loaded with 4 guys, a canoe on the roof, and a weekend's worth of camping gear in them. Back to the F150 comparison - the non-Raptor, 4x4 SuperCrew with a 5.0 V8 only has a curb weight of 5,000#, but gets you 2,300# of payload.

If these rigs are 5,600# (and all indications are that they are), It seems like Toyota may have put the LC250 in a very strange and unfortunate box. It appears to heavier and considerably slower than a 4x4 V8 powered half-ton pickup. But, it has lighter/less robust drivetrain components, a smaller engine, less than half the payload, about half the towing capacity, similar highway MPG, and much worse towing MPG. They also cost about the same. The only number that is appearing to be better on a LC250 is the in-town fuel economy (albeit, the LC250 would undoubtedly wheel better).

Let's just hope the (if true) 700# extra is all weight added to the LC250 that makes it more reliable and robust than the 150 before it. It also needs to be equally reliable to the 200 if they are the same weight.

 

[MRego]

EDIT: More information appears to confirm a curb weight of around 5,700# or so, based on the GVWR and the payload. It would be interesting to have someone who owns a 250 run it through a CAT scale to verify the actual curb weight.

It the ~5,600-5,700# weight turns out to be true, that is IMO too heavy for the rig relative to previous generations of Toyota SUVs and the drivetrain components the 250 has. It also may be at least partially to blame for the slow acceleration and underwhelming highway/towing MPG as well. This rig should really weigh around 5,000# given the smaller drivetrain components and aluminum 4-cylinder engine (which I bet weighs 300# less than my iron 2UZ and should more than make up for the battery pack).

And people are wondering why the 4 banger seems to be screaming out loud all the time. The poor thing has to haul almost the same weight a V8 used to.

 

[Noctilucent]

And people are wondering why the 4 banger seems to be screaming out loud all the time. The poor thing has to haul almost the same weight a V8 used to.

Actually, sounds like you’re the one carrying all the weight and screaming that same vindictive stuff again.

 

[Rednexus]

Actually, sounds like you’re the one carrying all the weight and screaming that same vindictive stuff again.

Since you have a LC250, could you run it through a CAT scale and post the ticket? It would be nice to settle the "is it overweight" discussion for good.

 

[malden]

The LC250 sold in the EU with the 2.8l diesel is apparently 2300 kg (5060 pounds.) for the base model and about a 100 kg more for the most feature laden trims. That number makes a lot more sense. The previous generation Prado with the 2.8l diesel weighed 2275 kg in Europe.

 

[SanJuanJ]

What's crazy is that with a 5,500-5,700# curb weight, these rigs would very easily be rolling at 7,000# loaded with 4 guys, a canoe on the roof, and a weekend's worth of camping gear in them. Back to the F150 comparison - the non-Raptor, 4x4 SuperCrew with a 5.0 V8 only has a curb weight of 5,000#, but gets you 2,300# of payload.

If these rigs are 5,600# (and all indications are that they are), It seems like Toyota may have put the LC250 in a very strange and unfortunate box. It appears to heavier and considerably slower than a 4x4 V8 powered half-ton pickup. But, it has lighter/less robust drivetrain components, a smaller engine, less than half the payload, about half the towing capacity, similar highway MPG, and much worse towing MPG. They also cost about the same. The only number that is appearing to be better on a LC250 is the in-town fuel economy (albeit, the LC250 would undoubtedly wheel better).

Let's just hope the (if true) 700# extra is all weight added to the LC250 that makes it more reliable and robust than the 150 before it. It also needs to be equally reliable to the 200 if they are the same weight.

"Strange and unfortunate box"? Are many people realistically cross-shopping the 250 and a half-ton pickup? The answer is no. Try to stay on your feeble point, whatever it is..

 

[SanJuanJ]

I read some of the fine print. The first one says, any use of "OVERSIZED" tire will DENY a warranty claim. Now, this is a drivetrain warranty and oversized tires plays a part in all parts of the drivetrain. You said the warranty is backed by "Fidelity." I wouldn't be surprised if people think this "Fidelity" is the same the multi-trillion dollar investment company. This is 'Fidelity Warranty' not 'Fidelity Investments"

A quick search and Yelp pops up with 1.5 stars and 121 reviews (1 Star is lowest rating). (I know Yelp and many other review sites are biased but I'm not going to spend that much time on this crap). Sure, everyone comes there to complain but if you read the complaints, the vast majority say the warranty claim was denied due to XXX. They recommend you to a shop to dismantle the car. Even the shops have complaints about this company. They send a guy over there. His priority is to find a way to deny the claim. There are complaints on how Fidelity Warranty is denying the claim due to lack of service records.... or lost records from the dealer. You have to follow the manufacturers maintenance to a "T" including interval. Say, you missed the 30/60/90k service by 500 miles because the shop couldn't accommodate you and your warranty was denied. This could even be a recommended service by the mechanic that you didn't do... because you didn't do it, warranty is denied.

Fidelity Warranty is owned by JM&A Group. More crappy reviews. 1.3 Stars.

Do you really think this warranty is free when the price of the vehicle is not fixed? By law, extended warranties like this are refundable for the unused portion. These warranties only kick in AFTER the manufacturers warranty. But guess what? If somebody bought a 10 year warranty and the manufacturers warranty was 5 years, you'd only get back 50% if you cancelled at the 5 year mark.... even though the warranty is not executable until after 5 years.

So you make the warranty "FREE" even though you indirectly paid for it. And now, there's no refund even though there is some "value added" to it. If I were to buy from that dealership, I would ask them to remove the Fidelity warranty and subtract $500 because that's is probably what they are paying for it. It's worth nothing to me and many others...easily because I would certainly upsize the tires.

----------------------------
@JohnGood As for depreciation, I'm only talking about depreciation. Not cost of ownership. And I still believe in 5 years a late model 200 might be worth more than a 2024 LC250. Yes, many used vehicles did gain in value due to Covid. Especially 4runners and Tacomas because the popularity of OVERLANDER exploded. I do not think used car values will "normalize" because of the onset of inflation and now tariffs. Most depreciation happens in the first 5 years.

You think all Land Cruiser appreciate/depreciate at the same curve but they don't. Check out the 2005 LC100 vs 2006 VVTI LC100. Small difference, moderate difference in value. Also note the 08-11 LC200 (that look most similar to a Highlander). Great deal but low value. The late model 200's are quite rare and special. They only sold ~3,500/yr. The 2021 H.E.'s will be very valuable.

Not including the 1958, the 2024 will certainly be the lowest valued 250 due to the shear numbers and the fact, every generation 250 will be better. The solid state batteries will be within the period of the 250.

Wut?

 

[hoser]

It's alright grandpa 200 your time to shine is over. It's over and! and you failed your series line so bad they discontinued your line because of you 200! Leaving only the lexus varient of your lc series/ species alive because well...

You see, failure to sell in large numbers is not a vehicle failure to an enthusiast. In fact, they are great vehicles to those who want to buy. In your eyes, looking at the 90-05 Acura NSX would be a failure. They continued to sell just a few hundred vehicles for years.

But I know and @ryanCA knows this is a great vehicle that was not realized in it's time. And hence....

There will be no more overbuilt V8 Land Cruisers with split tailgates in the future. Buy one now while you can.

 

[ryanCA]

You see, failure to sell in large numbers is not a vehicle failure to an enthusiast. In fact, of they are great vehicles, those are the vehicles you want to buy. In your eyes, looking at the 90-05 Acura NSX would be a failure. They continued to sell just a few hundred vehicles for years.

View attachment 3890547
But I know and @ryanCA knows this is a great vehicle that was not realized in it's time. And hence.... There will be no more overbuilt V8 Land Cruisers with split tailgates in the future.
View attachment 3890550

Yes, many of us super low mile NSX owners have rejoiced... the one that sold the week before this.. also hit a great number

When new LA times had $699 lease on later model NSX and couldnt give them away

 

[Jetboy]

"Strange and unfortunate box"? Are many people realistically cross-shopping the 250 and a half-ton pickup? The answer is no. Try to stay on your feeble point, whatever it is..

At least a few people do. There's quite a few threads on Mud comparing tundra vs LC200 as alternatives. The LC250 is pretty likely to have similar comparisons. I cross shopped the LC200 before I bought my tundra. I wanted more room and cargo capacity, but the 200 was on the list of potential options.

 

[Noctilucent]

You see, failure to sell in large numbers is not a vehicle failure to an enthusiast. In fact, they are great vehicles to those who want to buy. In your eyes, looking at the 90-05 Acura NSX would be a failure. They continued to sell just a few hundred vehicles for years.

View attachment 3890547
But I know and @ryanCA knows this is a great vehicle that was not realized in it's time. And hence....
View attachment 3890550

There will be no more overbuilt V8 Land Cruisers with split tailgates in the future. Buy one now while you can.

I like the 200 a lot. the 250 has a lot going for it, If I bought the 200 it wouldn't be for the v8. I don't give a rats ass about the sound and I'm not towing and I don't care about collectors value or whatever. It's the tailgate and the cargo room that's the valued part for me, I am tempted to get a 200. I am. the 250 is great and edged out the 200 by a hair for me. If they were to have had a tailgate on the 250, flat loading floor, and used regfuel, it would have scored perfect in my book. I understand you guys love your 200s. I get it I think their badass too but the 250 well, their badass too. It's rough their both very close. If I got a 200 I would want a 250. and If I only had a 250 well, here I am looking at the 200s. It's a real ****ing problem. I honestly want both but I don't want 2 vechiles. And having these 200 gargoyles perched in the forum, patiently waiting to drop their next vindictive comment, isn’t exactly helping. you can't go wrong with either. they both have their pros and cons.

 

[Rednexus]

"Strange and unfortunate box"? Are many people realistically cross-shopping the 250 and a half-ton pickup? The answer is no. Try to stay on your feeble point, whatever it is..

My point is quantitative and factual, with references cited, and assumptions clearly indicated as such.

Unless someone is willing to demonstrate that the 250 actually weighs closer to 5000#, it's just appears to be a very heavy and slow rig with limited payload/towing capabilities despite being expensive. My GX470 is faster, lighter, smaller, and yet it can tow more too. Toyota could do that in 2003 - why can't they do it in 2024? A V8 F150 4x4 - same price as a 250 - can tow waaay more than both and has a proven drivetrain.

I actually use my SUV for towing and wheeling so it needs to have real capabilities in more than 1 area. That's why I have a V8 GX and not a V6 4Runner.

New vs new, I'd choose a half-ton pickup. Money no object and I'd choose a GX550 (it can wheel but also has power and tow capacity that far exceeds my 470). Money as an object, I'd get a low mileage GX460 since the platform I have now works so darn good for my uses.

 

[stridertexas]

My GX470 is faster, lighter, smaller, and yet it can tow more too. Toyota could do that in 2003 - why can't they do it in 2024?

Emissions, regulations, crash standards, and standard features in 2024 are different than 2003…Every vehicle now is heavier than its predecessor's because of this…

And SUVs rarely if ever have the same payload of a truck…

I see these stats and don’t see them as shortcomings, I’m actually impressed how efficient, powerful and reliable a 4cyl hybrid system is now. Think back to the older 4cyl Toyota motors from 2003…they could never put down the power & same reliability as the new ones do.

 

[Rednexus]

Emissions, regulations, crash standards, and standard features in 2024 are different than 2003…Every vehicle now is heavier than its predecessor's because of this…

And SUVs rarely if ever have the same payload of a truck…

I see these stats and don’t see them as shortcomings, I’m actually impressed how efficient, powerful and reliable a 4cyl hybrid system is now. Think back to the older 4cyl Toyota motors from 2003…they could never put down the power & same reliability as the new ones do.

I certainly understand the difference in regulations. But in terms of standard features - the only thing of substance my 470 lacks over a LC250 are the lane departure, collision warning, and adaptive cruise features. Oh, it has a bigger touchscreen too. None of those things weigh very much.

Toyota certainly improved on the GX550. It has a bigger payload, way more power, much beefier drivetrain components, and a full 2,500 pounds more towing capacity than the 460/470 before it. On top of that, it's 100 pounds lighter than a LC250, despite Lexus luxury bloat. That much more capability is worth the extra 600 pounds of curb weight over a stock GX470. It just seems to be the LC250 doesn't really move the needle on capability relative to the curb weight.

 

[onemanarmy]

emissions/economy/green everything relies HEAVILY on weight and bloat

maybe a 35z and 5vz didn't make 500 hp, but they get the same MPGs as the new engines and the engines from 2003 are easily 300k mile engines.....which is super green....by not having to replace them/repair them more often

this 'green' agenda is just a power grab

 

[Noctilucent]

I certainly understand the difference in regulations. But in terms of standard features - the only thing of substance my 470 lacks over a LC250 are the lane departure, collision warning, and adaptive cruise features. Oh, it has a bigger touchscreen too. None of those things weigh very much.

Toyota certainly improved on the GX550. It has a bigger payload, way more power, much beefier drivetrain components, and a full 2,500 pounds more towing capacity than the 460/470 before it. On top of that, it's 100 pounds lighter than a LC250, despite Lexus luxury bloat. That much more capability is worth the extra 600 pounds of curb weight over a stock GX470. It just seems to be the LC250 doesn't really move the needle on capability relative to the curb weight.

I can see your arguement however The LC is capable of acheiving better mpg and ability to act as a power generator that alone adds a significant edge imo.

To reply to onemanarmy, I can also see these being a 300k+ mile engine. but I know it's human nature to doubt until they see it. I look to the acomplishments of toyotas engine building past to help me gauge the future. I'm following someone who is stacking the miles on their land cruiser to help gauge this ethos so far at nearly 50k miles within 5months nothing. I know it's still early to proclaim it's built to last just as long. But still something I'm keeping note of. So far so good.

 

[Girl Dad of 3]

I like the 200 a lot. the 250 has a lot going for it, If I bought the 200 it wouldn't be for the v8. I don't give a rats ass about the sound and I'm not towing and I don't care about collectors value or whatever. It's the tailgate and the cargo room that's the valued part for me, I am tempted to get a 200. I am. the 250 is great and edged out the 200 by a hair for me. If they were to have had a tailgate on the 250, flat loading floor, and used regfuel, it would have scored perfect in my book. I understand you guys love your 200s. I get it I think their badass too but the 250 well, their badass too. It's rough their both very close. If I got a 200 I would want a 250. and If I only had a 250 well, here I am looking at the 200s. It's a real ****ing problem. I honestly want both but I don't want 2 vechiles. And having these 200 gargoyles perched in the forum, patiently waiting to drop their next vindictive comment, isn’t exactly helping. you can't go wrong with either. they both have their pros and cons.

This is pretty much how I feel, except the other way around. 250 is like a younger brother. Same DNA but different strengths and weaknesses. I would be very happy to have both but unfortunately don’t have the money or space for that, especially since they are basically redundant for my uses (which underscores how similar they really are).

 

[Noctilucent]

This is pretty much how I feel, except the other way around. 250 is like a younger brother. Same DNA but different strengths and weaknesses. I would be very happy to have both but unfortunately don’t have the money or space for that, especially since they are basically redundant for my uses (which underscores how similar they really are).

Yep. If you own either I can see this, While having different stats still being locked eye to eye. Sizing up each other's flaws while respecting each other's strengths leaving you in perpetual arguement on which ones better when their abilies equal each out. you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Unless you buy both lol.

 

[Rednexus]

I can see your arguement however The LC is capable of acheiving better mpg and ability to act as a power generator that alone adds a significant edge imo.

Point taken, although it's not a feature I'd every use very much. While the MPG is better around town, if anything it is worse towing and only a little better on the highway.

A better approach would be to offer a non-hybrid VA35F in the LC250 as an option. Since the GX550 is only 5,500 pounds, we can subtract let's say 200# of luxury bloat to get it to LC250 1958 interior spec. That would result in a ~5,300# SUV with a 9.5" rear axle, a payload capacity of 1,600#, a towing capacity of 9,300#, and a 0-60 time of around 6.0 seconds. And it would probably have better MPG than the 460/470 before it. Basically, a modern version of a 4th gen V8 4Runner.

That would be a highly capable rig that Toyota could easily build from their existing parts bin. It would be far better for my uses than a half-ton truck and much more capable than my GX470. I would definitely be interesting in buying it.