Wits End Turbo Owners

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Geez the price on that supercharged one though... Makes me want to sell! I think I need to up my insurance coverage...
 
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:worms:

Project Cold IATS (In take air temps) - want to hear/read any or all thoughts on these - tell me I'm crazy or a genius (first time for everything 🤣)

Options 😎

  1. Air to Air intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Simple: Few moving parts, which is creates reliability
      2. Efficiency: Good - not likely to be heat soaked (if done correctly), needs air movement
      3. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
      4. Budget friendly: Large market offering, making it easier to keep reasonable
      5. "cool" or "street cred" factor: Boasts the fact that your car has a turbo
      6. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
    2. Cons
      1. Commitment: Series modification is needed (cutting up the body/fenders)
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic the Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Radiator block: Will block and heat soak the air that is needed for radiator (unless top mounted)
      4. Pressure drop/lag: Longer intake piping (lost boost) and a larger cooler core requires more volume (lost boost)
      5. Offroad-ability: Dirt/mud/debris could damage and/or clog the cooler
  2. Water to Air Intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Efficiency: As long as the system is adequate/large enough (Ha!), water cooling supersedes air
      2. Commitment: Less committing to build or install than Air to Air
      3. Offroad-ability: Less likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      4. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
      5. Pressure drop: Very little to no pressure drop (very short lengths of intake piping & smaller cooler core)
      6. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
    2. Cons
      1. Reliability: Many moving parts or potential for failure
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Expense: Many parts/pieces required and all are critical to a well performing kit
      4. Foot print: Many parts/pieces required - less than ideal in full engine bays
  3. Methanol/water injection
    1. Pros
      1. Reliability: Very few moving parts
      2. Power gain on stock Ecu: Adding octane to the equation (suck, squeeze, bang, blow). Octane=less pre-detonation = corrected timing = more power
      3. Aftermarket finish: Much easier to hide and keep the Toyota look
      4. Commitment: More or less, plug n play. Does not require extensive modifications
      5. Offroad-ability: Least likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      6. No pressure drop/boost loss
    2. Cons
      1. Waste: (very little) additives are being burnt/lost - will require refills (about equal to every tank of Gasoline)
      2. Cost: Could be expensive (varying on chosen parts)
      3. Tuning: Requires tinkering/adjustment to ensure correct ratios
      4. Ignition/control: Will require a controller of sorts (boost or manifold driven)
With all of that, can you think anything I missed??? Which have or would you chose? Keen to read the thoughts/opinions/choices!

Cheers!!
Jack
 
toyotaaddict83 said:
:worms:

Project Cold IATS (In take air temps) - want to hear/read any or all thoughts on these - tell me I'm crazy or a genius (first time for everything 🤣)

Options 😎

  1. Air to Air intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Simple: Few moving parts, which is creates reliability
      2. Efficiency: Good - not likely to be heat soaked (if done correctly), needs air movement
      3. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
      4. Budget friendly: Large market offering, making it easier to keep reasonable
      5. "cool" or "street cred" factor: Boasts the fact that your car has a turbo
      6. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
    2. Cons
      1. Commitment: Series modification is needed (cutting up the body/fenders)
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic the Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Radiator block: Will block and heat soak the air that is needed for radiator (unless top mounted)
      4. Pressure drop/lag: Longer intake piping (lost boost) and a larger cooler core requires more volume (lost boost)
      5. Offroad-ability: Dirt/mud/debris could damage and/or clog the cooler
  2. Water to Air Intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Efficiency: As long as the system is adequate/large enough (Ha!), water cooling supersedes air
      2. Commitment: Less committing to build or install than Air to Air
      3. Offroad-ability: Less likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      4. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
      5. Pressure drop: Very little to no pressure drop (very short lengths of intake piping & smaller cooler core)
      6. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
    2. Cons
      1. Reliability: Many moving parts or potential for failure
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Expense: Many parts/pieces required and all are critical to a well performing kit
      4. Foot print: Many parts/pieces required - less than ideal in full engine bays
  3. Methanol/water injection
    1. Pros
      1. Reliability: Very few moving parts
      2. Power gain on stock Ecu: Adding octane to the equation (suck, squeeze, bang, blow). Octane=less pre-detonation = corrected timing = more power
      3. Aftermarket finish: Much easier to hide and keep the Toyota look
      4. Commitment: More or less, plug n play. Does not require extensive modifications
      5. Offroad-ability: Least likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      6. No pressure drop/boost loss
    2. Cons
      1. Waste: (very little) additives are being burnt/lost - will require refills (about equal to every tank of Gasoline)
      2. Cost: Could be expensive (varying on chosen parts)
      3. Tuning: Requires tinkering/adjustment to ensure correct ratios
      4. Ignition/control: Will require a controller of sorts (boost or manifold driven)
With all of that, can you think anything I missed??? Which have or would you chose? Keen to read the thoughts/opinions/choices!

Cheers!!
Jack
Click to expand...

This is a great post, curious to see some discussion on it as well. Pardon the newb question but would Meth get injected at a specific PSI based on some kind of a pressure sensor dealio located in the boost line? So anytime XX psi has been reached, meth gets injected until the boost psi is now less than XX psi? Or would meth be injected starting at 1psi or maybe in the middle, like 3psi in our setup?
 
I weighed the options and decided to go with air/air for mechanical simplicity and cheap factor. There are ways to avoid chopping up the bodywork much (or any), but it requires a lot more bends and complexity and may put some of you charge pipes in harm's way for serious wheeling. For me, poking some hole in the radiator support is OK. It is also possible to place a FMIC with minimal/no blockage to the radiator, but doing so will generally require moving the trans cooler or changing it out for a long skinny aftermarket one. Also depends on what you have going on for bumper/winch.

I think you've laid out the pros and cons pretty well for each, and I don't think there is any right/wrong answer, it will just depend on each owner's priorities and preferences.

@alia176 my understanding is that a simple controller can trigger the meth injectors at a PSI of your choosing.
 
toyotaaddict83 said:
:worms:

Project Cold IATS (In take air temps) - want to hear/read any or all thoughts on these - tell me I'm crazy or a genius (first time for everything 🤣)

Options 😎

  1. Air to Air intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Simple: Few moving parts, which is creates reliability
      2. Efficiency: Good - not likely to be heat soaked (if done correctly), needs air movement
      3. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
      4. Budget friendly: Large market offering, making it easier to keep reasonable
      5. "cool" or "street cred" factor: Boasts the fact that your car has a turbo
      6. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
    2. Cons
      1. Commitment: Series modification is needed (cutting up the body/fenders)
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic the Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Radiator block: Will block and heat soak the air that is needed for radiator (unless top mounted)
      4. Pressure drop/lag: Longer intake piping (lost boost) and a larger cooler core requires more volume (lost boost)
      5. Offroad-ability: Dirt/mud/debris could damage and/or clog the cooler
  2. Water to Air Intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Efficiency: As long as the system is adequate/large enough (Ha!), water cooling supersedes air
      2. Commitment: Less committing to build or install than Air to Air
      3. Offroad-ability: Less likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      4. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
      5. Pressure drop: Very little to no pressure drop (very short lengths of intake piping & smaller cooler core)
      6. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
    2. Cons
      1. Reliability: Many moving parts or potential for failure
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Expense: Many parts/pieces required and all are critical to a well performing kit
      4. Foot print: Many parts/pieces required - less than ideal in full engine bays
  3. Methanol/water injection
    1. Pros
      1. Reliability: Very few moving parts
      2. Power gain on stock Ecu: Adding octane to the equation (suck, squeeze, bang, blow). Octane=less pre-detonation = corrected timing = more power
      3. Aftermarket finish: Much easier to hide and keep the Toyota look
      4. Commitment: More or less, plug n play. Does not require extensive modifications
      5. Offroad-ability: Least likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      6. No pressure drop/boost loss
    2. Cons
      1. Waste: (very little) additives are being burnt/lost - will require refills (about equal to every tank of Gasoline)
      2. Cost: Could be expensive (varying on chosen parts)
      3. Tuning: Requires tinkering/adjustment to ensure correct ratios
      4. Ignition/control: Will require a controller of sorts (boost or manifold driven)
With all of that, can you think anything I missed??? Which have or would you chose? Keen to read the thoughts/opinions/choices!

Cheers!!
Jack
Click to expand...
Good talk Jack and thanks for writing it all out so I didn’t need to 😜
 
alia176 said:
This is a great post, curious to see some discussion on it as well. Pardon the newb question but would Meth get injected at a specific PSI based on some kind of a pressure sensor dealio located in the boost line? So anytime XX psi has been reached, meth gets injected until the boost psi is now less than XX psi? Or would meth be injected starting at 1psi or maybe in the middle, like 3psi in our setup?
Click to expand...
Simplest is a boost switch that you dial in to get the psi activation you want. My turbo’d meth is set at 2psi. Let off the throttle and it shuts off. The spendy way of doing this is by adding a boost control off the MAF.
 
I’ve thought a bit about this and definitely see value in adding an intercooler.

With that said, it would be worthwhile to measure pre- and post-compressor IAT to establish a baseline before throwing $$$ at problems.

I plan to prioritize combatting heat soak by reducing under hood temps (hood vents coming soon) and insulating air intake tubing before considering intercooler.
 
Just to add to the discussion…

How many hundreds of Superchargers are out in the wild for the 80s? It’s roughly the same boost as the turbo but Toyota/TRD/Magnusson never made nor required an intercooler.

Before people read all of this and start freaking out out that maybe they need an intercooler, you probably don’t. All of the harsh talk of ICs comes from Australia where they are NOT ECU limited for fuel/boost and a lot of their discussions are also based on diesel applications. We are at 7psi max.

IC and water injection is a nice to have, not a need to have.
 
toyotaaddict83 said:
:worms:

Project Cold IATS (In take air temps) - want to hear/read any or all thoughts on these - tell me I'm crazy or a genius (first time for everything 🤣)

Options 😎

  1. Air to Air intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Simple: Few moving parts, which is creates reliability
      2. Efficiency: Good - not likely to be heat soaked (if done correctly), needs air movement
      3. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
      4. Budget friendly: Large market offering, making it easier to keep reasonable
      5. "cool" or "street cred" factor: Boasts the fact that your car has a turbo
      6. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
    2. Cons
      1. Commitment: Series modification is needed (cutting up the body/fenders)
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic the Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Radiator block: Will block and heat soak the air that is needed for radiator (unless top mounted)
      4. Pressure drop/lag: Longer intake piping (lost boost) and a larger cooler core requires more volume (lost boost)
      5. Offroad-ability: Dirt/mud/debris could damage and/or clog the cooler
  2. Water to Air Intercooler
    1. Pros
      1. Efficiency: As long as the system is adequate/large enough (Ha!), water cooling supersedes air
      2. Commitment: Less committing to build or install than Air to Air
      3. Offroad-ability: Less likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      4. No waste: Nothing is being burnt or lost
      5. Pressure drop: Very little to no pressure drop (very short lengths of intake piping & smaller cooler core)
      6. Growth potential: Necessary for any hopes of boost increases (precautions and preparations taken/completed, of course)
    2. Cons
      1. Reliability: Many moving parts or potential for failure
      2. Aftermarket finish: Difficult to mimic Toyota look (if desired)
      3. Expense: Many parts/pieces required and all are critical to a well performing kit
      4. Foot print: Many parts/pieces required - less than ideal in full engine bays
  3. Methanol/water injection
    1. Pros
      1. Reliability: Very few moving parts
      2. Power gain on stock Ecu: Adding octane to the equation (suck, squeeze, bang, blow). Octane=less pre-detonation = corrected timing = more power
      3. Aftermarket finish: Much easier to hide and keep the Toyota look
      4. Commitment: More or less, plug n play. Does not require extensive modifications
      5. Offroad-ability: Least likely to fail because of mud/dirt/debris
      6. No pressure drop/boost loss
    2. Cons
      1. Waste: (very little) additives are being burnt/lost - will require refills (about equal to every tank of Gasoline)
      2. Cost: Could be expensive (varying on chosen parts)
      3. Tuning: Requires tinkering/adjustment to ensure correct ratios
      4. Ignition/control: Will require a controller of sorts (boost or manifold driven)
With all of that, can you think anything I missed??? Which have or would you chose? Keen to read the thoughts/opinions/choices!

Cheers!!
Jack
Click to expand...
Snorkel is another one.
 
My IACs have been pretty good and average 90s intake on a 75-degree day. Roughly +\- 10-15 degrees from ambient temps. I've seen IAC's as low as 40s in snow conditions or as high as 130s in desert conditions. You can 100% tell the difference on a cold day as there's more boost and more power.

Engine temps (after I finally solved my cooling issues) stay from 175 on cold snow days to 212 max on hill climbs, full boost on hot days with AC on.

I dream of having an Intercooler or Meth Injection? Yes.
Do I need it? No! I can tow my 3500 trailer up high elevation grades I wouldn't have imagined before without the Turbo and do it at 80mph.

Meth Inj is probably the way I will go when I have time to tinker with putting my own kit together. Joey might have his kit out before I find that time and I might just buy his meth kit.
 
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